Retiring judge issues drunk women rape warning

  • A female judge has warned women who get drunk they are putting themselves in danger of being targeted by rapists.

    Lindsey Kushner QC said women were entitled to "drink themselves into the ground" but their "disinhibited behaviour" could put them in danger.

    Judge Kushner made the courtroom plea as she jailed a man for six years who raped a girl he met in a Burger King in Manchester city centre last year.

    But, Rape Crisis slammed her comments as "outrageous" and "misguided".

    Yvonne Traynor, chief executive of Rape Crisis South East, said: "As a judge and a woman she should know better.

    "The only person who is responsible for rape, is the rapist.

    "Women are yet again being blamed for rape."

    The judge spoke out as she retired from the criminal bench.

    I really quite fail to see what Rape Crisis are getting their knickers in a twist about. Surely it's only common sense to advise women that by getting drunk they are increasing their chances of being raped. The days when, if a woman waiting at a bus stop got into a car driven by a stranger who offered a lift was accused of 'asking for it' are long gone but surely women have some responsibility for their own safety and falling out of nightclubs at 3.00 a.m.drunk and incapable is certainly increasing their chances of some misfortune or other, even if it's only getting run over by a passing driver.

  • I am a woman and I agree that getting drunk and staggering round in the early hours of the morning, alone, is looking for trouble. And this applies to anyone. Yes, the rapist is to blame for raping you but if you can possibly protect yourself against it, you should. Not being a disgusting lush would be one good way of doing this.

  • NOOO!!

    I am challenging this, you two...

    Firstly, if a woman gets drunk, the same as a man, they are endangering their health by consuming too much alcohol and by being inebriated. They could easily fall over on a pavement and crack their heads open, or get run over. So, really people shouldn't get drunk.

    BUT, by saying that by getting drunk, women are increasing or inviting the likelihood of getting raped, I strongly disagree with. The only person responsible for a rape is a rapist. Full stop. It's like the old argument of women wearing short skirts are "asking for it" by doing so, which was rubbish then and is now.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Nope, the rapist has nothing to do with it in this regard. He is a criminal, full stop. He is like a dangerous predator in the wild. If you waltz out into the bush, alone and unarmed and a leopard jumps on you, then you would still be alive if you were smart enough to know that your behaviour is placing you right in the leopard's path. But if you aren't smart enough you will end up as leopard poop. That is a fact of life.

    No one asks to be raped. But the rapist is a predator so he stalks his victims like one and leaps on them when they are vulnerable.

    Often, this sort of social pest goes after children, old people, handicapped people or anyone he thinks looks vulnerable. Seldom do they go after anyone who might be a danger to them. They are abject cowards behind all that bravado.

    So, if you care about your survival; and your future you will be very careful about what you do and where you do it in case you fall victim to someone hanging about waiting for the likes of you to walk by.

    The crime is the same. You won't have any fewer rapists but you might have fewer rapes because people offered these scumbags fewer opportunities to attack them. The crime remains the same . Women have got to realise that feminism isn't about expecting the world to see you as special. You will be attacked same as your ancestors were for thousands of years and for similar reasons. But you can fight back when you are an adult and you can try to reduce the circumstances. You can't always avoid being attacked but to wander around alone, drunk and in the middle of the night, means that you are so self oriented you just don't understand the way of the world and the nature of the predatory creatures among your fellow travellers.

    This is why women have had chaperones since antiquity. Being equal under the law doesn't mean criminals won't see you the way they always have - as a target. The world is a harsh and violent place. It's important to know this. One's fellow travellers can be dangerous and capable of doing us harm. It's vital to have this drummed into our little wooden heads. This goes for everyone and quite a lot of men are raped as well. People just don't like to talk about it. They don't ask for it either, but they, too, need to stop staggering about pissed out of their sculls in the middle of the night on their own. How many of them haven't just vanished after "a night out?" fallen into canals, off balconies, been attacked. Humans are dangerous animals. This is the first law of survival.

    My Wing had a tutor at this defence classes. Mr Wing is a brown belt in Krav Maga. This man had been a prisoner of war in Korea and been in the SAS. He had survived and was in his eighties when he came to give them some advice. He had a motto: "Don't think they won't, because if they can, they will."

  • Rape Crisis just don't want a return to the bad old days where women were made to feel responsible for rape, a situation that still exists in a fair few other countries in the world. If they didn't keep pushing this case then maybe we would slip back, who knows.

    Even so the judge is correct, you can do certain things to protect yourself from crime. Most men wouldn't take advantage of a totally incapable girl, quite the opposite but as LW says you are taking a risk with certain behaviours and can have too much faith in the decency of others or the police to stop any harm coming to you.

  • The rapist is always going to be prosecuted because he is never going to be right, but if you can prevent yourself from becoming his victim, then you should. Don't wait until you become another statistic. You can be attacked even if you are doing nothing to make this easier. So why make it easier?

  • I have room to talk ;) Where I am many of us have been attacked, many millions raped (one every twenty-three seconds or some such horror. You learn not to make yourself an easy target here.

  • I'm afraid I disagree. I accept that women aren't 'asking for it' but they are putting themselves in danger. Suppose the victim was male and had been robbed and the BBC report has said " A judge has warned men who get drunk they are putting themselves in danger of being targeted by muggers.

    The judge said that men were entitled to "drink themselves into the ground" but their "disinhibited behaviour" could put them in danger."

    Would you have the same attitude or would you accept that they were increasing their likelihood of being robbed?

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