Will Turkey become a hostile dictatorship?

  • Several EU leaders have criticised Turkey, amid a growing row over the Turkish government's attempts to hold rallies in European countries.

    President Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused Germany and the Netherlands of "Nazism" after officials blocked rallies there.

    Dutch PM Mark Rutte called his comments "unacceptable", while Germany's foreign minister said he hoped Turkey would "return to its senses".

    Erdogan is becoming a dictator. Hell, he's been one for ages really.


    How can Europe hope that the "light will shine in" and Turkey will turn away from its autocratic path?


    Many Turks want Turkey to remain a modern European facing democracy, but many don't.


    What happens next and how would Europe deal with an autocratic, hostile regime (another one!) on it's borders?

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  • Besides what Turkey wants or doesn't want, it has no right to use any European country for its political stamping ground. I would think that those days of walking all over politically correct acolytes in the west has come to an end and that end will become more apparent as certain opportunists try it on with a new generation of political leaders and large numbers of people who have finally woken up because they have seen the light. It has taken them so long I sometimes wonder if it might have taken them too long, but one lives in hope that things might be rescued. The media and various idiotic protest movements permitting ...

  • The result of the referendum that grants sweeping new powers to the president of Turkey is valid, the head of the electoral body says.

    Sadi Guven was speaking after the main opposition Republican People's Party (CHP) cited irregularities, including the use of unstamped ballot papers.

    President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's push for an executive presidency succeeded with just over 51% of the vote.

    The win was met with both celebrations and protests across Turkey.

    I can't see this result being overturned without bloodshed. I hope I'm wrong but my opinion is that we are now heading for a strict Islamic dictatorship in Turkey under Erdogan. Stand by for another refugee crisis which is going to dwarf anything we've had so far.

  • I hope not Morgan, I hope not. Turkey has a huge population and even if just a small percentage flees, that is bad news.


    On Erdogan, he is just getting worse and worse. It's been going on for years and it was obvious where this will end, as you say, with a strict Islamic state. Which is why some of the military had that attempt at a coup.


    Unfortunately and this probably the case for across the Muslim world, as many people are moderate, the same again want to go back to medieval times. But Turkey is closer than the Arab despot countries countries and it's impact on Europe could be far greater.


    But hey, that's democracy. The alternative in these countries is hard men like Assad to keep the extreme element in check.

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  • And there they were trying their best to get Turkey into the EU 8|.


    He's talking about having a referendum on restoring the death penalty. They won't want Turkey in then. In fact I think they can't.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • Turkey has blocked all access inside the country to the online encyclopaedia Wikipedia, one of the world's most popular websites.

    It was not initially clear why the ban had been imposed.

    The Turkey Blocks group said the site was inaccessible from 08:00 (05:00 GMT) by order of the Turkish authorities.

    People in the capital Istanbul were unable to access any Wikipedia pages without using a Virtual Private Network (VPN).

    ................Critics say it smacks of Turkey's repression of free speech: over half of all requests to Twitter to remove content have come from Turkey, and the country now ranks 155 of 180 in the press freedom index of the watchdog Reporters without Borders.

    Added to the new arrests carried out by the authorities in Turkey a few days ago, this is further proof that Erdogan is going to become a new dictator and what is left of democracy in the country will soon be gone.

  • Some of my family went to Turkey about 3-4 years ago and they loved it, but even then Erdogan was starting to show his true colours, but as already said, half the country voted for him. So, one half wants a autocratic, Islamic leader leaning towards the Middle East and the other half want a modern democracy leaning towards Europe. It will end only one way....


    Blocking wikipedia will just be the start of this. If Erdogan allows internet access at all, it'll just be to the websites he controls. I can see why Putin likes him.


    What a shame for Turkey.


    Ps: Before I forget, a big thanks to Morgan for keep supporting this site and posting content here. I appreciate it.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

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  • Some of my family went to Turkey about 3-4 years ago and they loved it, but even then Erdogan was starting to show his true colours, but as already said, half the country voted for him. So, one half wants a autocratic, Islamic leader leaning towards the Middle East and the other half want a modern democracy leaning towards Europe. It will end only one way....


    Blocking wikipedia will just be the start of this. If Erdogan allows internet access at all, it'll just be to the websites he controls. I can see why Putin likes him.


    What a shame for Turkey.


    I worked a fair bit over there a couple of years ago. The people I worked with were pretty bright guys and all pro-Erdogan, albeit somewhat reluctantly. They were not full on Muslims at all and were very much pro-West but with all the chaos going on around them they did not want a weak government. Given that a lot of the nations in chaos did have strong governments before they self destructed then maybe that's a bit short sighted but it seemed to be a common chain of thought.


    Us foreigners never hear about what the alternative is to people like Erdogan. Same in Russia - I met lots of seemingly pro-Putin people but really they just didn't like what else was on offer.

  • The problem with opponents to the leaders in those countries Hoxton, is they tend to disappear.


    Are we really saying that if there was a decent alternative to Erdogan,, that he/she could now win a election? They'd be dead before they ever reached the ballot box, as would their supporters.


    I think we may be heading towards a serious showdown with the Turks at some point in the future. They never accepted the Armenian massacre, they will not allow the Kurds to hive off a bit of land for their own country, they're becoming more pro-Putin, more extreme and it's all just heading in the wrong direction.

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  • The problem with opponents to the leaders in those countries Hoxton, is they tend to disappear.


    Are we really saying that if there was a decent alternative to Erdogan,, that he/she could now win a election? They'd be dead before they ever reached the ballot box, as would their supporters.


    I think we may be heading towards a serious showdown with the Turks at some point in the future. They never accepted the Armenian massacre, they will not allow the Kurds to hive off a bit of land for their own country, they're becoming more pro-Putin, more extreme and it's all just heading in the wrong direction.


    He has a grip on power now but there was a time when there was an alternative. As I say, I've no idea if that was a decent alternative or not but it seems Turks didn't think so. I still get the impression they see him as a necessary evil in chaotic times but it's a dangerous game to play...!

  • I don't know why the Turks, at half of them anyway, need their own version of "Saddam" or "Assad" for. Did they not learn from those countries, that maybe that wasn't the best road to go down. Whom do they need a strong man against anyway? Or, is it purely a reaction against Kurdish independence aspirations?

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  • President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is expected to win the election today as the country goes to the polls after he called snap elections last week. This election will almost finalise decline the decline of Turkey from a democracy to an autocracy as Erdogan seeks wide ranging powers for himself to clamp down on terrorists, as he seems them, within his country and the continuing war on the Kurds.


    As many EU countries have signalled it is highly unlikely that Turkey will ever get into the EU, Erdogan has moved ever closer to another autocrat, Russia's Putin. As Turkey straddles the entrance to the Black Sea, it is in a important strategic area, but I don't see how this country under Erdogan will remain in NATO for much longer.


    With thousands of people including teachers still in prison after the aborted military coup a few years ago, Erdogan after today will become unstoppable. I am sure Putin will be delighted with today's election results and guarantees his warships safe passage from the seized Ukrainian Black Sea port.


    Wasn't the 21st century meant to be about more democracies, not less? We seem to have more dictators than ever now.

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  • Turkish voters are going to the polls to decide whether to grant President Recep Tayyip Erdogan a second five-year term, in the most fiercely-fought elections in country in years.

    Polls opened at 08:00 (05:00 GMT) in presidential and parliamentary votes.

    If Mr Erdogan wins, he will adopt major new powers that critics say will weaken democratic rule.

    But he faces a major challenge from centre-left candidate Muharrem Ince of the Republican People's Party (CHP).

    Turkey remains under a state of emergency imposed in the aftermath of a failed coup in July 2016.

    I'm not entirely sure why I thought the Turkey elections were in April, but anyway...:/ they are being held today.


    Will Turkey slide into dictatorship under Erdogan and become Putin's new best friend, or will the warm glow of democracy shine through and everything will be good again?


    You can tell by the slant of that, how I think this will go.

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  • It's up to the electorate, but it is so easy to just accept the status quo. The UK isn't really any different but it takes a strong person to stand up and ask why we put up with it.


    Maybe we should loan them Farage. ;)

  • I think Farage is taking his roadshow to Australasia at the moment and as I think he's had a few words to say about Turkey in the past, I doubt he'd be interested in visiting them.


    I think we're a lot, lot different to Turkey, Fidget. But I take your status quo point.

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  • Turkey's long-standing leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan says unofficial results from the presidential elections show he has won outright in the first round.

    Mr Erdogan has 53%, while his closest rival, Muharrem Ince, is on 31%, state media report, with most votes counted.

    What can be said? Damn.X(


    I think Putin will leap on this now and welcome Turkey into Russia's bosom, guaranteeing Putin's Black Sea fleet based at the seized Crimea port, total access to the Med.


    Will Turkey spiral into civil war now?

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  • Autocracy was a good thing under someone like Singapore's Lee Kuan and a bad thing under someone like Turkey's Erdogan.


    Similarly, Democracy can be a good thing when there is a government with a leader whom one respects, trusts and is inspirational, such as Thatcher, Churchill, Blair (notice how they crumble towards the end) and democracy can be a bad thing when the leader is weak and vacuous (as Britain has now) and it then mutates into "popular democracy" which further mutates into "mob rule".


    Let's face it, democracy isn't what it used to be. Enlightened autocracy could, in the years to come, take its place. But first, the Erdogans on this planet have to be tamed, put out to pasture or got rid of. I just can't imagine Erdogan's authoritarian religiosity and dictatorship helping Turkey to progress in Europe and the West. Instead it will develop alliances elsewhere that will ultimately push it backwards financially and socially.

  • I bet those in the military who staged that half baked coup, are seriously regretting backing down now. All in the name of democracy. Although, as many of them are rotting in Erdogan's prisons, they probably have other things on their minds.

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  • I worked in Turkey for a bit and stay in touch with a couple of friends there. I was talking about this to them and their thinking was very similar to that of Putin "supporters" I've spoke to. They aren't really fans but fear the alternative to Erdogan more than Erdogan himself. They see what happened to nations around them and think someone strong will prevent it. Not sure I agree but I understand it and these guys aren't thick.

  • Well, the Kurds won't their own homeland, but that is only the south east portion of the country which is up for grabs, unless there is real tensions among the Turks themselves.


    Actually, thinking about it, having a Islamist leader gain power and keep power, despite decades of secular politics in the country, has caused a "few" tensions.


    Problem is, one half of the country wants to go down the Islamsit route and the other half doesn't.

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  • Problem is, one half of the country wants to go down the Islamist route and the other half doesn't.

    Personally, when I went to Turkey a few years' ago, when Erdogan was on his previous campaign for re-election. I never equated Turkey with strict Islamic values. I was quite surprised that over 90% of Turkish citizens were Muslim. It didn't feel that way. Even in the less progressive Eastern regions of Turkey it was more live-and-let-live than what the Turkish people perceive as a desert Islamic mentality, which they dissociate from.


    According to Western politicians and the media, all of that is collapsing in Erdogan's Turkey. Yet, unless I misheard or am being naive, I think Erdogan has promised a more relaxed, less prescriptive Islamic approach.


    As for his Government's hostility, particularly to Europe and the West generally, it is an understandable response to unrelenting criticism.


    It is true that Erdogan's control of dissent within Turkey has been a ruthless affront to the West's hectoring insistence on practising the liberal doctrine of Democracy. This has been whipped up by the media, and then endorsed by politicians anxious to ingratiate themselves to the media who represent voters who believe in "popular democracy" (for the people, by the people). I believe this has had a counter-productive effect , in making many factions within Turkey believe they have the support of the West in challenging (ie overthrowing) Erdogan, who understandably decided to pre-empt any such insurgency.


    I think if the media and politicians should just dial it back for a while, there is the possibility that Erdogan is becoming a more benign dictator. Granted, it isn't Democracy as we in the West like to see it but these days that may not necessarily be a disadvantage.

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