BREAKING NEWS - Possible PM Statement on Scotland this afternoon

  • Alex Salmond has just said in the Commons that May is about to make a major statement on the Scottish constitution this afternoon.


    Bercow has said he knows nothing of this and it could be nothing and a rumour just being started by the papers.

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  • You're going to be peed off with me, but I support Independence.


    Tis your opinion and you said from day one you're support English nationalism. But, as I said here or one of the paper sites (I'm getting confused by what I say where and to whom!) I was born into a country called Britain with the union jack as my flag. Until that changes, that is want I want to remain. My country, all of it, not dismembered bits, because that's what it'll become if the Scots separate.

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  • Same here but the Scots voted against so it should be put to bed, at least for a few more years yet.


    Two people here want to break up my country, bloody hell. I feel my finger on the ban button. Although I'd lose half of my active members if I did that! :p


    Seriously, do you reckon Sturgeon will just let it lie for two years. I think not.


    As said here or elsewhere, if the SNP are really serious about independence and if they think a majority in Scotland wanted it, they could just declare it unilaterally.

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  • I don't want to see the break up of the UK and I really don't think the Scots will vote for it with their present economic situation. But two million Scots should not be allowed to decide the entire future of the UK and Brexit. The trouble is that because of the budget fiasco, May has already shown she will back track if she's pushed hard enough so Sturgeon will keep on pushing and pushing.


    Informative BBC article here.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-s…cotland-politics-39297497

  • Good article. I would also defer a referendum until Brexit is way settled. It would cause catastrophe at the moment and open the way for opportunists in the Remain camp to slip daggers in.


    But - the Scottish issue possibly isn't going to go away. I don't think the English issue will either and I realise now that those of us who went into the freedom campaign at the time were maybe a bit early. It was crushed by the left.


    However - the left is in tatters now and freedom movements are rising in Europe so I would suspect that the English freedom cause might get a second wind at some time.


    People said to us white dragon riders a few years ago, first a Parliament and then Brexit and then, maybe, suggest independence for England. Time will tell.


    In the meantime, white dragon riders never die, they just haunt the ancient ruins for a chance at reincarnation.


  • I don't want to see the break up of the UK and I really don't think the Scots will vote for it with their present economic situation. But two million Scots should not be allowed to decide the entire future of the UK and Brexit. The trouble is that because of the budget fiasco, May has already shown she will back track if she's pushed hard enough so Sturgeon will keep on pushing and pushing.


    Informative BBC article here.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-s…cotland-politics-39297497


    I think the Scots will go in the end. Don't know when it will happen, but I reckon it will.


    For most of us, Scottish independence only became a news headline when Tony Blair devolved power thus giving the SNP a powerful platform for independence, which was completely the opposite of what Blair had intended. But of course the disquiet over the poll tax, something Thatcher never wanted (it was bloody Hezza) was what really fanned the flames. Independence stirrings probably existing before that, but that's when it real;ly started to take off. The film Trainspotting helped stir the pot too.

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  • I think the Scots will go in the end. Don't know when it will happen, but I reckon it will.


    For most of us, Scottish independence only became a news headline when Tony Blair devolved power thus giving the SNP a powerful platform for independence, which was completely the opposite of what Blair had intended. But of course the disquiet over the poll tax, something Thatcher never wanted (it was bloody Hezza) was what really fanned the flames. Independence stirrings probably existing before that, but that's when it real;ly started to take off. The film Trainspotting helped stir the pot too.


    In the parts of Scotland I've been to there doesn't seem to be much desire to leave - they seem as bored with the debate as most of us. I think we only hear from the noisy ones that want to go and without anything to compare them to we start thinking it is a widespread opinion, same old story. Before the days of the Scottish parliament many Scots just pointed their finger at Westminster and thought "quitting" it would solve all their problems. Now they have their own imperfect parliament maybe they don't feel it is the solution after all. I expect each referendum will come up with similar close results - the nationalists will have to hope their vote coincides with some global or regional meltdown which can be blamed on UK membership even if in fact it has nothing to do with it.

  • Not been to Scotland in a very, very long time and there was nothing about independence then. As said, I only noticed indy rumblings around the time of the poll tax.


    Just looking around to see if we have any Scottish members yet, no, right here goes...


    The Scots are really just the English. We created modern Scotland, the cities, all the lowland areas that matter. The (Scottish) highlands were Irish and a completely foreign culture to us which we largely destroyed then, although its come back in strength now...


    The Scots are VERY conservative by nature and yet seem to enjoy the SNP's wannabe socialist agenda, even fooling people into thinking the SNP is a socialist party. They should take a closer look.


    I've always said that if the Scots became independent, they would become far more conservative with a big C than England. They'd have to, because they would have to pay for everything themselves.


    Again, if Scottish members were here, especially those supporting the SNP, I'd be quiet, but after a period of pain, I think a independent Scotland would prosper as they got off the "milk" provided by England's bosom and they would stand on their own two feet.


    It's the effect (or is it affect?) on England, not Scotland, that concerns me.

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  • Yes, they're not "Celts". They are Germanics, Anglo-Saxon and Norse. The "Celts" are from Iberia and look like the Portuguese. There are many shortish, sturdy, dark haired and dark eyed Scots and these are the Celts. Tartan is not Celtic it is Norse and knotwork is not Celtic, it is Anglo-Saxon.


    But no one is going to be able to convince Scots of these things. I think it's because of historical issues and I also think that groups like to have identity and have that identity enshrined in political status that nationhood bequeaths.


    On the whole, humans don't give a flying fandango about politics. It's a pity, in my humble opinion, that politics ever emerged as a thing unto itself. It isn't a thing unto itself. It's a ghastly dung-like manifestation of the need for control by means of ideology.


    Just my opinion. (Need a smiley of some sort here, maybe playing the bagpipes, which are also Norse.) :D

  • It isn't a thing unto itself. It's a ghastly dung-like manifestation of the need for control by means of ideology.


    Fully agree. Ideology for the sake of it, is terrible. "I'm right, your wrong" "my ideas are right, yours are wrong" etc Terrible.


    Which is why the political systems are in such a mess. You're on the right, or the left, or the middle. What a load of rubbish. It's like being back in a school playground.


    Why can't clever people sit around a table and work out how things should be done. "The NHS should be privatised." "The NHS should remain state funded." All stale arguments of the past. What is best, should be the argument. The only argument.

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  • Although I consider the UK to no longer be a 'United' Kingdom since Blair's 'devolution' - it is grossly unfair that England has been denied it's own Parliament or assembly - nor even EVEL...... but, at the same time, if any one country of the Kingdom has a democratic desire to become independent, then they should have that right.......including England......albeit, they should not be entitled to repeated referenda , unless a major change is being contemplated...

  • Fully agree. Ideology for the sake of it, is terrible. "I'm right, your wrong" "my ideas are right, yours are wrong" etc Terrible.


    Which is why the political systems are in such a mess. You're on the right, or the left, or the middle. What a load of rubbish. It's like being back in a school playground.


    Why can't clever people sit around a table and work out how things should be done. "The NHS should be privatised." "The NHS should remain state funded." All stale arguments of the past. What is best, should be the argument. The only argument.


    But surely, those arguments, whether 'stale' or not - are indeed being expressed because those engaged in the 'argument' believe that they ARE supporting what they consider would be 'best' .......and obviously, whether or not they are considered to be academically 'clever' or not, they are undoubtedly entitled to express their views.

  • Although I consider the UK to no longer be a 'United' Kingdom since Blair's 'devolution' - it is grossly unfair that England has been denied it's own Parliament or assembly - nor even EVEL...... but, at the same time, if any one country of the Kingdom has a democratic desire to become independent, then they should have that right.......including England......albeit, they should not be entitled to repeated referenda , unless a major change is being contemplated...


    I'm hoping the UK may become a little bit more "united" in the future, but at the moment the tail winds are blowing in the wrong direction.


    Although not against an English parliament, it does play into the SNP's hands. They want to chip away at the UK, and a English parliament would be a massive gift to them.

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  • But surely, those arguments, whether 'stale' or not - are indeed being expressed because those engaged in the 'argument' believe that they ARE supporting what they consider would be 'best' .......and obviously, whether or not they are considered to be academically 'clever' or not, they are undoubtedly entitled to express their views.


    But its the dogmatic, I'm right no matter what, I dislike.


    Why does something have to either be privatised or nationalised, these are arguments from decades ago?


    On the many issues we face, we should be able to sit down and discuss them rationally and leave ideology out of it.

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  • Gordon Brown is now is adding his ideas to the debate. I've always liked Brown. I think he's an honest politician and a decent man whatever the rights and wrongs of his policies. He may be the right person to find a solution to the problems.


    "Gordon Brown will call for Holyrood to be handed a raft of new powers after Brexit as part of a "third option" for Scotland's future.


    The former prime minister will say a new form of federal home rule is needed to unite the country and avoid years of "bitter division".


    Mr Brown will give a speech at the Festival Of Ideas in Kirkcaldy, Fife, against the backdrop of a constitutional stand-off between the UK and Scottish governments over the calling of a second independence referendum."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...tter-division/

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