We're Off. Brexit Begins!!

  • Well, May was conciliatory in her speech to parliament. Tusk was "upset" in his remarks upon receiving the article 50 letter. Now, let the bun fight begin!


    And what the initial fight will be about is now known.


    We want to discuss our exit as well as future relations with the EU in parallel. The EU do not. They want to discuss our leaving bill first, then everything else second. If we have any sense, we won't budge on this. If we give way on the money right at the beginning with no certainly that our financial markets will have access to the single market, we might as well go home.

  • I don't think there will be any going back now. May seemed well determined and her delivery message was encouraging. Break out the bunting. You won't get sneered at for flying your flag now. It's amazing. I spent over 10 years in company with activists pushing for independence and here it is! I feel well chuffed that the efforts of all delivered the Brexit vote and in my small way, I feel I have done my duty to my grandparents. And my father, he would have been a big Brexit supporter. It's a great day for everyone who has British roots, actually.


    It's Freedom Day. Should be made a public holiday. :)

  • I don't think there will be any going back now. May seemed well determined and her delivery message was encouraging. Break out the bunting. You won't get sneered at for flying your flag now. It's amazing. I spent over 10 years in company with activists pushing for independence and here it is! I feel well chuffed that the efforts of all delivered the Brexit vote and in my small way, I feel I have done my duty to my grandparents. And my father, he would have been a big Brexit supporter. It's a great day for everyone who has British roots, actually.


    It's Freedom Day. Should be made a public holiday. :)


    At some stage we should certainly set and celebrate some sort of independence day in the future, either the day of the referendum, the day Brexit was triggered or the day we formally leave the EU behind.

  • Playing devil's advocate here Morgan, but before you celebrate, what if the EU offer us the chance to control our borders and restrict free movement in return for staying in the EU? What if they go one step further and reform the whole damn thing altogether?

  • Well, we have all the different European elections coming up LW, so lets see how that plays out first. The French election soon will be a good test...


    But if all the elections come to nothing, as I expect, then the other countries have said they are going to push towards closer union. It's this push, I believe, that will eventually make it all implode.


    Without Britain's income, how much longer will German taxpayers keep paying out for other countries, especially bailing out the likes of Greece, Italy etc?


    The danger is that the future and inevitable implosion of the EU could create the very situation which brought all the countries together in the first place, ie a bloody great big war. Look at how tense things got during the Syrian refugee crisis amongst the EU states.

  • Always reject war. It is caused not by the people but by grossly irresponsible leadership. Always tell them to get stuffed. It's essential that people start doing this instead of being made the useful idiots of regimes that have no interest in anything but their own interests. Old style patriotism went out of the window some time ago and now the people, everywhere, need to dump politicians who want to drag them into conflict.


    There are better things to do than fight like ferrets in the sack of someone else's ambition.

  • Playing devil's advocate here Morgan, but before you celebrate, what if the EU offer us the chance to control our borders and restrict free movement in return for staying in the EU? What if they go one step further and reform the whole damn thing altogether?


    I believe they have already made it clear that a watered down membership of the EU will not even be considered. That is perfectly understandable.....that may well encourage further 'deserters', and they clearly will wish to deter others from regaining their sovereignty. I am not even sure that we will be granted access to the Single Market without having to accept FoM......and if so, I hope the government would refuse such an offer.......but, we are governed by politicians are we not........and actually doing what the say they will do is not really a strong characteristic of that 'profession'.
    If the EU insist on the UK 'paying its debts , as calculated by the EU, before negotiating a post Brexit deal, then I would expect the UK to just refuse point blank....and two years later, trade via WTO rules. Those terms, whilst not as good a tariff free, would still save us the huge cost of membership - and, if the EU imports were still greatly in excess of UK exports - we would actually have a net revenue from the tariff income....

  • I believe they have already made it clear that a watered down membership of the EU will not even be considered. That is perfectly understandable.....that may well encourage further 'deserters', and they clearly will wish to deter others from regaining their sovereignty. I am not even sure that we will be granted access to the Single Market without having to accept FoM......and if so, I hope the government would refuse such an offer.......but, we are governed by politicians are we not........and actually doing what the say they will do is not really a strong characteristic of that 'profession'.
    If the EU insist on the UK 'paying its debts , as calculated by the EU, before negotiating a post Brexit deal, then I would expect the UK to just refuse point blank....and two years later, trade via WTO rules. Those terms, whilst not as good a tariff free, would still save us the huge cost of membership - and, if the EU imports were still greatly in excess of UK exports - we would actually have a net revenue from the tariff income....


    I think May made a critical error by accepting the EU leader's demands that we could not be part of the Single Market without accepting the four pillars of it, including that of free movement. None of these "pillars" are rules of course. That should have been up for negotiation, rather than handed to them on a plate. Like you, I'm not sure we'll be granted free access either. I guess it comes down to whether they wish to punish us or not. If the current French president were to be around in two years time, then I would've not been optimistic, but we don't know what EU leaders they'll be in a year's time to negotiate with. That'll be key, I reckon.


    As far as paying our debts, hopefully no money will be agreed until a post Brexit deal is finalised, but they'll likely be "principles " agreed on how to work out a amount, when the time is right.

  • Playing devil's advocate here Morgan, but before you celebrate, what if the EU offer us the chance to control our borders and restrict free movement in return for staying in the EU? What if they go one step further and reform the whole damn thing altogether?


    If they add giving our courts supremacy, especially over the touchy question of human rights, then I'd be prepared to accept an agreed number of EU citizens of our choosing. That way we could restrict it to those we actually needed and not have to worry about taking all the Roma pikies and various other unsavoury characters.

  • If they add giving our courts supremacy, especially over the touchy question of human rights, then I'd be prepared to accept an agreed number of EU citizens of our choosing. That way we could restrict it to those we actually needed and not have to worry about taking all the Roma pikies and various other unsavoury characters.


    I'll guess we'll see what happens, assuming there is still a EU to negotiate with. If Len Pen wins, it's game over for the EU.

  • The EU has outlined its strategy for Brexit negotiations, suggesting talks on a trade deal could begin once "sufficient progress" is made on a separation settlement with the UK.


    The draft guidelines, issued by European Council President Donald Tusk, argue for a "phased approach" in talks.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39453338
    ====


    Looks like they may play hard ball...


    We want to discuss our post Brexit relations with the EU in parallel with out exit arrangements. They just want to talk about our exit, at least to begin with and of course they want to talk about our "leaving" fee.


    I hope May doesn't back down on this, if she does, she'll never be re-elected.

  • Tusk said, "Brexit is punitive enough" , they will not punish us, but they don't want to talk about our post Brexit relationship, until they have our dosh....


    Sounds pretty punitive to me.

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