Will Scotland leave the UK?

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  • We seem unable to stop people who are not entitled from using our NHS

    We could stop people but our politicians and also those that work in the NHS would never turn anyone away because they were not entitled to use it. In a commercial organisation people get fired for doing stuff for free. Abuse of the NHS is giving stuff away for free it’s exactly the same. You will never stop people trying to get stuff for free so you need to have robust gate keepers. The problem seems to be anyone can walk into A&E and get treatment. Somehow this needs to be curbed.

  • We could stop people but our politicians and also those that work in the NHS would never turn anyone away because they were not entitled to use it. In a commercial organisation people get fired for doing stuff for free. Abuse of the NHS is giving stuff away for free it’s exactly the same. You will never stop people trying to get stuff for free so you need to have robust gate keepers. The problem seems to be anyone can walk into A&E and get treatment. Somehow this needs to be curbed.

    I was in hospital this time last year, opposite in a bed was a man who would get up in the morning and disappear until lunchtime, return and have his lunch and then disappear until supper time. Have his supper and reappear at bedtime. His illness, a supposed leg ulcer

    After a few days of this I challenged him, telling him that he was occupying a bed that denied someone who desperately needed it, the hospital was not a hotel. His reply was "F**k off"

    I complained to the ward sister who just shrugged her shoulders

    His daughter and two jobs appeared to visit him, swearing and generally making a nuisance and making threatening glance at me and his neighbouring patient who told them to be quiet. Eventually a trainee nurse appeared and told them to be quiet at which one of the yobs physically threatened her. I was bed ridden so all I could so was push my panic button which brought a nurse rushing in and I pointed to the problem. She pressed her security button, they rushed in and threw the visitors and the father out. Had they kept their cool the father could still be there today

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • I was in hospital this time last year, opposite in a bed was a man who would get up in the morning and disappear until lunchtime, return and have his lunch and then disappear until supper time. Have his supper and reappear at bedtime. His illness, a supposed leg ulcer

    After a few days of this I challenged him, telling him that he was occupying a bed that denied someone who desperately needed it, the hospital was not a hotel. His reply was "F**k off"

    I complained to the ward sister who just shrugged her shoulders

    His daughter and two jobs appeared to visit him, swearing and generally making a nuisance and making threatening glance at me and his neighbouring patient who told them to be quiet. Eventually a trainee nurse appeared and told them to be quiet at which one of the yobs physically threatened her. I was bed ridden so all I could so was push my panic button which brought a nurse rushing in and I pointed to the problem. She pressed her security button, they rushed in and threw the visitors and the father out. Had they kept their cool the father could still be there today

    Having spent the better part of a week in hospital a few weeks ago, I could speak of another kind of abuse, but I'll post about that in more general terms in the future. Suffice to say, the NHS gets abused from all angles, inside and out and those that need the help most, don't get it with catastrophic consequences.

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  • The problem seems to be anyone can walk into A&E and get treatment. Somehow this needs to be curbed.

    London hospitals operate a triage system now, which did work well for my local hospital for a while, when the actual consultant was doing the triage himself, but doesn't now. As you correctly say, once you're in A&E, you're in the system and thus can access free prescriptions too and all services.


    The latest thing my hospital did three years ago was to actually shut the main A&E entrance itself and waiting area, the idea being that if there's far less space for people, then non-emergencies wouldn't go to hospital. Having experienced the cut down version myself several times, it doesn't work and is hell. The hospital serves a whole swathe of East London and yet only a dozen people can get inside...

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  • London hospitals operate a triage system now, which did work well for my local hospital for a while, when the actual consultant was doing the triage himself, but doesn't now. As you correctly say, once you're in A&E, you're in the system and thus can access free prescriptions too and all services.


    The latest thing my hospital did three years ago was to actually shut the main A&E entrance itself and waiting area, the idea being that if there's far less space for people, then non-emergencies wouldn't go to hospital. Having experienced the cut down version myself several times, it doesn't work and is hell. The hospital serves a whole swathe of East London and yet only a dozen people can get inside...

    So can you now only be admitted if a doctor sends you?

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • I was in hospital this time last year, opposite in a bed was a man who would get up in the morning and disappear until lunchtime, return and have his lunch and then disappear until supper time. Have his supper and reappear at bedtime. His illness, a supposed leg ulcer

    After a few days of this I challenged him, telling him that he was occupying a bed that denied someone who desperately needed it, the hospital was not a hotel. His reply was "F**k off"

    I complained to the ward sister who just shrugged her shoulders

    His daughter and two jobs appeared to visit him, swearing and generally making a nuisance and making threatening glance at me and his neighbouring patient who told them to be quiet. Eventually a trainee nurse appeared and told them to be quiet at which one of the yobs physically threatened her. I was bed ridden so all I could so was push my panic button which brought a nurse rushing in and I pointed to the problem. She pressed her security button, they rushed in and threw the visitors and the father out. Had they kept their cool the father could still be there today

    Your experience endorses what I said that NHS workers will never intervene, they don’t see it as their role and, most likely with NHS workers it would be against their values to do so.

  • London hospitals operate a triage system now, which did work well for my local hospital for a while, when the actual consultant was doing the triage himself, but doesn't now. As you correctly say, once you're in A&E, you're in the system and thus can access free prescriptions too and all services.


    The latest thing my hospital did three years ago was to actually shut the main A&E entrance itself and waiting area, the idea being that if there's far less space for people, then non-emergencies wouldn't go to hospital. Having experienced the cut down version myself several times, it doesn't work and is hell. The hospital serves a whole swathe of East London and yet only a dozen people can get inside...

    It was the wrong action to take and in my opinion a tad passive aggressive. We should be very straightforward in our approach to this and put a secure lobby at the front of each A&E with a desk called “Entitlement Check”. At this desk you will present suitable ID to confirm your entitlement, there are many documents in circulation already that could satisfy this requirement, and once you’ve been checked you can get treatment. If you are not entitled you will be shown to the street and sent on your way.

  • So can you now only be admitted if a doctor sends you?

    I can't speak for the other hospitals, but at my local the consultant was based close to the entrance and pretty much examined everyone as soon as they walked in the front door and he made a instant decision whether the person could continue to reception and "sign in" or not. When this system operated, 90% of people coming into A&E were rejected and that was probably the reason the local trust decided to close the main waiting area. It was deemed a massive success, but the system was dumped, we still have a reduced area and now massive queues again.

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  • It was the wrong action to take and in my opinion a tad passive aggressive. We should be very straightforward in our approach to this and put a secure lobby at the front of each A&E with a desk called “Entitlement Check”. At this desk you will present suitable ID to confirm your entitlement, there are many documents in circulation already that could satisfy this requirement, and once you’ve been checked you can get treatment. If you are not entitled you will be shown to the street and sent on your way.

    The system worked when the consultant did the triage and all non urgent cases were turned away. Shortly afterwards A&E got renamed to the American ED, Emergency Department, but this has nothing to do with entitlement, but whether something was urgent or not.


    Many people who go into the EDs want a jab, because they've booked a last minute holiday somewhere and of course you have all the drunks on Friday and Saturday nights.


    Anyway, we're digressing, as this is separate to Scots coming over from a independent Scotland using our NHS, which they will. Your idea works very well under this situation, no ID, no treatment.

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  • Scotland election results 2019: Exit poll forecasts SNP to win 55 seats

    The SNP are predicted to win 55 of the 59 seats in Scotland while the Conservatives could be on course to win an overall majority.

    I'm going to pin this thread, as I think Scottish independence and not Brexit will now be the dominate political topic if the exit polls are correct and the SNP do well. In fact, the dominate political topic of our entire lifetime.

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  • The SNP have done phenomenally well. Pushed the LibDems underwater.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • I admire the Scots for their nationalism, but not their common sense. They have a large percentage of people who don't want to be ruled by the British parliament but have no objection being ruled by the EU parliament. The average EU deficit is 1%, and is the highest deficit a country can have to be allowed to join the EU, however Scotland's deficit is 7%. Despite their spending, their NHS is worse than ours. The SDP are extremely left wing, and believe they can spend their way out of trouble, and we all know that doesn't work. They also believe that they can continue with free education, and free prescriptions etc etc, without the massive subsidies from the government. Despite having so many seats, it's still only 45% of the country who voted SDP, which tells me that a referendum would still produce a small remain vote.


    I would love to see Scotland leave, because I believe they cost the UK an enormous amount of money. If I were in power the first thing I would do is address the Barnett formula, because Scotland has had it to good for to long.

    Don't make me angry

  • I don't understand the Scots either, if they think they'd be better off taking orders from Berlin rather than London, then they're deluded. But, I still never want the break up of the UK.

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  • Let them go then we will see if they can park free of charge in hospital car parks and have free dental treatment and the rest.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • I would love to see Scotland leave, because I believe they cost the UK an enormous amount of money. If I were in power the first thing I would do is address the Barnett formula, because Scotland has had it to good for to long.

    I wonder whether giving them full fiscal autonomy would provide a solution. No handouts, no Barnett formula, let them keep all the tax they raise, but keep central control over the major things such as defence, foreign policy, immigration, etc. If the Scottish government isn't willing to contribute towards defence of the country (for example) that could prove to be a bit of a sticking point.


    Things that will affect the UK as a whole should stay within the UK Parliament. I'll give it a bit more thought.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • The support for independence is Scotland has fallen from their electorate. The SNP have basically taken over the old Labour policies which is where their support comes from, the Scots are too canny to withdraw from Westminsters financial umbrella

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • the Scots are too canny to withdraw from Westminsters financial umbrella

    I'm not sure if Sturgeon would still expect handouts if Scotland leaves the union, but I suspect she does. What's more, our history of being soft makes me think we would still throw money at them. Interesting to see what would happen regarding a border

    Don't make me angry

  • I'm not sure if Sturgeon would still expect handouts if Scotland leaves the union, but I suspect she does. What's more, our history of being soft makes me think we would still throw money at them. Interesting to see what would happen regarding a border

    They would probably qualify for "Foreign Aid" ;)

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Interesting to see what would happen regarding a border

    We could always build a wall.


    Oh, wait a minute:



    ^^

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • Lol lol... Good one.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Sturgeon just gave her election victory speech a few minutes ago and she appears to want the powers to call for a independence referendum transferred to Hollyrood from Westminster. I'm sure Boris will jump at that...;)


    She has a lot more Westminster MPs again, so expect them to make a lot of noise, but unlike recent years, there's nothing they can do to block Brexit or any government policy now.

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  • Will the SNP just give up now? Of course they won't! They'll just make as much noise as possible, but I suppose it gives them something to do.

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  • Let them go... Socialism will destroy Scotland.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Totally against that. It would cause so many problems, that any issues over Brexit would be eclipsed by a independent Scotland.

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  • I think we should have referendum in England to see if we should allow Scotland to stay. For the record I would love to see the back of the moaning bar stewards

    Don't make me angry

  • I agree. Scotland would be worse than Greece was in 2007. Let them go.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Will the SNP just give up now? Of course they won't! They'll just make as much noise as possible, but I suppose it gives them something to do.

    I think the United Kingdom will break up. The Scots have been royally shafted by Brexit and they're very unhappy about it. It's not a question of "if", it's only a question of "When".


    The English think of Scotland not as an equal partner in a union of nations, but as a territorial possession..... as if it is the last remaining outpost of the Empire. And this is not necessarily my opinion, but is the comment I have heard a number of times from various Scots. Whether or not it is a true perception, it's how many Scots feel.


    In the 2014 independence referendum, many Scots voted to remain a part of the UK solely because they believed that staying with the UK was their best way of staying in the European Union. It was a constant theme of the message played out by the remain camp during the Scottish Independence referendum campaign. It made sense to them at that time. If they left the union, they would have to apply to join the EU as an independent country.


    They stayed with the UK because in 2014, nobody knew that Cameron was going to call an EU referendum. Again, many comments I have heard, seen and read since then from Scots say that had they known the English (and Brexit IS overwhelmingly an English thing) were going take them out of the EU, then there is little doubt that they would have voted for independence.


    Even after the 2016, had the British government said that they would recognise Scotland's desire to remain in the EU and committed to doing all they could to come to some arrangement with the EU, that may have placated the situation.


    But Teresa May said "Brexit means Brexit".... thus putting down a red line that is a major factor in, what I believe, will lead to inevitable departure of Scotland from the United Kingdom.


    We need to understand that Boris Johnson will not be Prime Minister forever (although it will probably feel like it by the time the Tory party decides he's outlived his usefulness and stabs him in the front).


    He is on his honeymoon with the British people right now. He walks on water. He is the proverbial mutts nuts.


    But he will eventually overreach himself, just like Margaret Thatcher did with the Poll Tax. He'll get too cocky. He'll push his luck too far and that will be the end of Boris.


    The Scots may not get their referendum during his tenure in office, but it will come. Eventually. And when it does, the Scottish people will be unforgiving of the English for their hubris and their arrogance.


    The Union flag is living on borrowed time.