Recent changes on the VM Network

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  • Thanks for the responses Richard and JJ20X.

    It appears from your answers that I clearly forgot how Local can be interpreted. I personally class the regional and nations stations as Local, my definition being anything that isn't targeted at the whole UK.

    So oops, sorry about that! :(

    I'd forgotten about the BBC definition of the word.

    So, JJ20X, what I was actually asking, though doing so badly, was would it be practical or desirable to VM to put say, BBC Radio Scotland on the same multiplex as BBC1 Scotland HD?

    I'm assuming, given the tiny amount of space radio stations use, they'll just leave it as it is and let everyone get all the BBC regional/nations stations as it isn't worth the hassle.

  • ...what I was actually asking, though doing so badly, was would it be practical or desirable to VM to put say, BBC Radio Scotland on the same multiplex as BBC1 Scotland HD?

    I'm assuming, given the tiny amount of space radio stations use, they'll just leave it as it is and let everyone get all the BBC regional/nations stations as it isn't worth the hassle.

    As far as I know, the logic behind national carriage is that BBC Radio Scotland will also be of interest to Scots living in England, Wales etc. Sure, the 6 VM networks in Scotland could extract the BBC Radio Scotland (adding it to TSID 101) but there would be additional infrastructure and local monitoring needed to do that. No real advantage to doing it as Scots living in other nations would lose access to to the channel.

    Strictly speaking, as all BBC LR is funded from the licence fee, the same logic should apply to the English stations. Unfortunately, although carriage of the handful of stations currently carried takes up a small amount of space, an additional 40 would start to eat into capacity. 40 x 128 kbps audio streams collectively needing around the same capacity as a couple of SD TV channels.

  • Thanks JJ20X. Much appreciated. :)

    40 radio stations in the space of 2 SD channels? I thought it was much less stations than that, I tried to roughly work it out a couple months ago based on the Freeview PSB1 multiplex. Obviously those have Red Button data aspects that aren't on other platforms, but I wouldn't have thought that takes up a huge amount.

    This isn't my area of expertise though 8o...if I even have one :D

  • 40x128kb/s=5128kb/s - lets say 5 Mb/s for 40 128 kbps radio stations plus some extra clutter for the PMTs.

    On TSID 101 BBC One North West is using 2 Mb/s for video, 192 kb/s for audio, around 40 kb/s for subtitles and an unspecified of additional data - so let's say just short of 2.5 Mb/s for an SD channel. TSID 101 is quirky in that it doesn't use stat-muxing.

    Freeview uses a lower bitrate for local radio to fit everything in (80kb/s) - but if everything is reduced to mono, why bother?

    Freeview in Scotland uses variable rates to fit in additional services.

    It's just maths. :D

  • 40x128kb/s=5128kb/s - lets say 5 Mb/s for 40 128 kbps radio stations plus some extra clutter for the PMTs.

    On TSID 101 BBC One North West is using 2 Mb/s for video, 192 kb/s for audio, around 40 kb/s for subtitles and an unspecified of additional data - so let's say just short of 2.5 Mb/s for an SD channel. TSID 101 is quirky in that it doesn't use stat-muxing.

    Freeview uses a lower bitrate for local radio to fit everything in (80kb/s) - but if everything is reduced to mono, why bother?

    Freeview in Scotland uses variable rates to fit in additional services.

    It's just maths. :D

    PMT's?

  • Changes logged in the overnight scan were similar to last Saturday:

    In the NIT root, there were 52 changes to NIT Linkage (data for set top box use) for networks which get such updates.

    The scanner has issued an alert that the "manufacturer" names included in the NIT Linkage service names (DL_Cisco_TiVoPF_10069, DL_Sam_TiVoPF_10071 etc) should be ignored as the services are still being used to carry data for both Cisco & Samsung models of Tivo. VM had previously changed the format of the service names to remove manufacturer names, using service names such as DL1_TiVo_10069. The migration from TSID 42 to TSID 1 has reintroduced the misleading service names.

    A further scan sometime this morning revealed further changes to the sport+ flag on BT Sport services and also a Sky Cinema rebrand with TSID 30 SID 3004 changing from Sky Greats HD to Sky Westerns HD.

  • Am I missing something as I really don't have a clue what any of this actually means or more to the point why I need to actually know any of it.

    It's a thread about technical changes on VM's network, Ron. If the thread is of no interest to you, then we have hundreds of other threads to choose from. The thread is useful because it can highlight upcoming new services before they actually launch, or at least give us a flavour of what's going on behind the scenes on Virgin Media's network.

    PS: I will delete your post and this post in the next 24 hours to keep the thread on topic.

  • It's a thread about technical changes on VM's network, Ron. If the thread is of no interest to you, then we have hundreds of other threads to choose from. The thread is useful because it can highlight upcoming new services before they actually launch, or at least give us a flavour of what's going on behind the scenes on Virgin Media's network.

    PS: I will delete your post and this post in the next 24 hours to keep the thread on topic.

    Ok do as you wish its your forum, I was just curious as to why the VM network is getting this much scrutiny while others aren't also how the information is obtained, if similar information was available for the other networks then it would be interesting to know how to obtain it, that's all, but if that's off topic then so be it.

  • Ok do as you wish its your forum, I was just curious as to why the VM network is getting this much scrutiny while others aren't also how the information is obtained, if similar information was available for the other networks then it would be interesting to know how to obtain it, that's all, but if that's off topic then so be it.

    Data for other networks is available on many other sites, so there is no compelling reason for the people providing those reports to repeat it on here. VM is a little more complicated than other networks and most of the information on here is from analysis of SI data or, in simple terms, the metadata carried on the network.

  • No significant changes on Sunday's scans, the only activity being the sport+ flag playing "musical chairs" on the BT Sport channels. Sport+ changes will be excluded from future reports.

  • Analysis of the overnight scan revealed that the placeholder flag has been added to TSID 14 SID 1402 "BTSport 4K UHD Finals". The scanners have reported that this is currently linked to an MPEG2 video stream, so probably an information slate.

    The scanners also reported that TSIDs 35, 42, 45 & 104 have been decommissioned and the former frequencies now have no signal.

    TSID 38-41, which have now been removed from the NIT CDS (frequency data) still have data left in the SDT and NIT Services sections. So still some work required before they are completely removed from the SI tables.

    With the decommissioning of TSID 42 & 45, it's only a matter of time before these are also removed from the SI tables. (TSID 35 & 104 have already been removed). As for the timescale, the removal of TSIDs 38-41 started in February 2018 and still isn't complete so, who knows?...

    Does this post from a satellite forum shed any light on what VM might be doing?

    Quote from Bo98;c-94379317

    Some info on BT Sport Box Office ROI: the next BT Sport Box Office event is 7 September, the first under Sky's deal rather than eir Sport. The BT website currently states: "In the Republic of Ireland? Your ways to buy will be available soon".

    I imagine the ROI feed will launch by then but we'll see.

  • MB says that there are still some channels broadcasting in MPEG2:

    - alibi +1

    -Colors Cineplex

    -Dave ja vu

    -GOLD +1

    -Good Food +1

    -QVC Beauty

    -Home +1

    -W +1

    -Eden +1

    -YESTERDAY +1

    -COLORS

    -TCM +1

    -Star Bharat

    -Colors Rishtey

    -ITV4 +1

    -Sky Premiere 1hr

    -Sky Sports Racing

    -Television X (Channel 980)

    I'm posting this to help those who (like myself) are running short of disc space as watching/deleting any recordings from these channels first will free up more space.

    I can't understand why these haven't been moved over yet, I suppose VM will have their reasons.

  • I can't understand why these haven't been moved over yet, I suppose VM will have their reasons.

    Largely because it isn't being done for the customer but to reduce the number of transport streams and the costs of running the network.

    Many of VM's roll-outs seem to be protracted and chaotic, as we have seen with the recent removal of TSIDs 38-41. Which, in theory, could have been done in February 2018 when the regional roll-out commenced for the removal of assigned frequencies. Technically, these transport streams had already been decommissioned or reassigned to DOCSIS a long time ago. More recently, they seem to be repeating this for TSID 42 and 45, which have also been decommissioned. Although traces of TSID 35 and TSID 104 were removed quite quickly, so they can move quickly when they see fit.

    The channels you mentioned are on TSID 12, 16 and 18. Conventional wisdom being that the remaining services on TSID 12 should be converted to MPEG-4, with MPEG-4 versions of the remaining services on TSID 16 & 18 being moved into spare capacity on TSID 12.

    That said, TSID 16 also carries several BT Sport Extra red button streams which probably spend most of their existence as static video slates, so would probably be better left as MPEG-2.

    Perhaps VM knows something we don't and a schedule exists for the removal of another tranche of SD versions of channels currently using dual illumination. Maybe the remaining MPEG-2 channels are using old MPEG-2 only encoders and VM doesn't see the need to buy additional MPEG-4 capable encoders if existing MPEG-4 capable encoders are shortly to become available as further SD duplication ends. Lots of ifs, buts and maybes.

    Of course, its also possible that all equipment currently in use is MPEG-4 capable and VM simply hasn't taken the final step at this point in time.

    There are many gaps in the transport stream map after recent changes. TSIDs 15, 17 & 19 being dormant, having been cleared of SD channels. Possibly to be joined at some point by TSIDs 16 & 18 and, maybe, 12. It will be interesting to see if VM use the spare capacity for new services or if the spare capacity is also to be decommissioned.

    HD services moved from TSID 35 to the, recently cleared, TSID 20 to allow TSID 35 to be decommissioned. It's possible that something similar will eventually happen with, say, services on TSID 30-34 being transferred to TSID 15-19 as the remaining transport streams are cleared. Even the services on TSID 29 could be migrated to TSID 12 if VM decide to clear that transport stream. It would be sensible for VM to retain some of the cleared transport streams for overspill/pop-up services such as the BBC Summer Red Button services and one-off UHD events, such as those from BT & Eurosport (although TSID 14 currently seems to be reserved for BT UHD events).

    On another note:

    No updates noted on this weeks scans. The overnight scans are only showing a change to the TDT (which is the time / date stamp and updates constantly). Any post-6am scans only showing the updated table version numbers with no change to the content other than the TDT. An extended break for VM techs perhaps... ^^

  • Very interesting. Thanks JJ20X.

    TSID 9 seems to be Sky Sports Red Button channels on DigitalBitRate. Why do you think they seemingly converted one them (SptsETV01) to MPEG4 a while ago, and then just halted?

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