Will the West go to war with Russia?

  • Trump likes Putin, at least for now...


    Have we got Putin all wrong? He is the one who ended widespread conflict in Syria...:rolleyes:


    Are we going to end up fighting the Russians at some point?

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  • The following replies to this thread were all copied over from the original forum:


    Quote from Little Wing

    I think there is an underhanded interest in turning Russia into an enemy. One should always be suspicious when politicians make those kind of noises. I think Russia's potential for a Middle East peace settlement has also upset a few apple carts. They don't like it uppem and they want settlements that suit major interest parties not the people who need justice. ... What's new?

    Quote from Horizon

    I don't disagree with your Iraq reference there, but there comes a point when you just can't bend over and let these despots do what they want.


    THe Ukrainians didn't fight, they assumed America would intervene. So, a shot was barely fired in Crimea. The Russians just walked in and took their bases over which, conveniently, were right next to Russian bases

    Quote from hoxton_hockler

    Agree about Afghanistan. What is particularly galling about Iraq is that Afghanistan was a success until the US/UK diverted their attention towards Iraq.


    Even so I still believe all we did is bring forward an inevitable destabilisation of the region. Dictatorships were not going to last forever, especially there is corruption and huge wealth inequality - you can get away with it if most people are well off e.g. Saudi.

    Quote from Horizon

    May's Speech in Washington today is particularly relevant to this discussion:


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38747979

    Quote from Horizon

    ...Thanks for the post as it helps to clarify your earlier posts which I will get back to later, especially that comment about Switzerland which I found curious...


    As always, there are about half a dozen different subjects there which perhaps we can explore in future threads. I intend to create one about globalisation aka Americanisation, which is one of themes of your posts. But, I'll restrain myself here and stick to Putin!

    Quote from Heero Yuy

    I think it's also important to look at the historical perspective from the Russian point of view. At the end of WWII Russia had a bulwark of like minded nations essentially under control from the Kremlin to "protect" the Russian homeland from any potential invasion from the west or unrest from the south.


    That bulwark has been slowly eroded by internal revolution, the EU and NATO. While this did not directly affect Russian interests and also during the glasnost era Russia did not feel threatened. All that changed when the Crimea and the Russian military base on the Black sea was about to defect to the west. In trying to ferment unrest in Syria the west also threatened the only base in the Mediterranean that the Soviets had hence their support for the Syrian regime.


    IMHO we are as responsible for Putin's behavior as Putin himself.

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  • It was already known back then that Russia shot down that airliner, but now here is the proof.


    Russia has invaded or coerced several of its neighbours. Shot down civilian airliners. Created mammoth civilian casualties in Syria. Poinied its enemies in several; countries including the UK. Mass hacked various countries. Interfered in western elections etc etc.


    Is Russia the biggest threat to world peace today and specifically is Putin? He's the czar with his hands on all the levers of blood and chaos.


    Would it not be better for the world if someone just put a bullet through Putin's head, or perhaps use one of his methods of assassination and perhaps kill him with a nice bit of radioactive water or nerve agent?

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  • 1000 Russian tanks on Ukrainian border

    MILITARY boffins on social media claim to have spotted “1000” Russian tanks moving west towards Ukraine.

    Trackers of Vladimir Putin’s army have posted pictures of cargo trains carrying the hulking the war machines along with other snaps showing armoured vehicles also being transported.

    The article goes on to say that the tanks are very old Soviet era ones and the suggestion is that if Russia does invade, these old tanks could be used as cannon fodder by Putin.


    With the killing of the Russian backed separatist leader in Eastern Ukraine last week, does Putin think he might lose control of this region and is preparing a full invasion of Ukraine?


    Will the West stand back and watch as it did before when Crimea was annexed and Eastern Ukraine was thrown into chaos, or will somebody actually stand up against Putin this time?


    Should Ukraine (and Georgia) be allowed to join NATO?

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  • I agree Nigel and this is what annoys me about the establishment politicians who say we shouldn't allow them to join NATO, when it's entirely their business, or should be.


    I haven't checked into it, but what Putin has always stated was that at the end of the Cold War, NATO agreed with Russia that no country on Russia's border would ever join NATO, then the Baltic countries joined shortly after that agreement....


    Putin warned (it's on youtube) ten years ago that if countries like Ukraine joined NATO, he would act.

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  • Putin warned (it's on youtube) ten years ago that if countries like Ukraine joined NATO, he would act.

    If Ireland had joined the Warsaw pact I think we would have acted as well.


    The Soviets feel more comfortable with a buffer of friendly or neutral countries on their borders and who can blame them?

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • Russia attacks Ukrainian boats

    Russia has seized three Ukrainian naval vessels off the coast of the Crimean Peninsula in a major escalation of tensions between the two countries.

    Two gunboats and a tug were captured by Russian forces. Ukraine says they were fired on and six crew were injured.

    The countries blame each other for the incident. Ukraine's government said it could declare martial law.

    First it was little green men that Putin claimed he knew nothing about, then the tanks rolled over the Ukrainian border and Putin claimed it was soldiers on holiday, then a Malaysian airliner got shot down and Putin still claimed he had no knowledge of the incident and and finally Russia completed seized of Crimea for itself.


    Nobody acted. Nobody stood up to him, so Putin just took whatever he could. It was only a matter of time before things kicked off again.


    Will Putin now go the final step and link up Crimea with Russia properly, by a full on invasion of Ukraine?

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  • Trump to send nukes to Europe

    DONALD Trump could move nuclear missiles to Europe for the first time in 30 years this weekend after Washington accused Russia of breaking a Cold War pact.

    The US has threatened to pull out of the Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces Treaty, which bans long-range nukes and their deployment in Europe, after accusing Vladimir Putin of breaking the 1987 agreement.

    There's already the exsisting tensions between America and Russia over Ukraine, Syria and cyber warfare, but this really ups the ante.


    The Americans have said that Putin has already breached the Treaty which was originally signed by Reagan and Gorby, so the Americans consider it null and void now.


    Are the two countries about to have a major stand-off?

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  • INF nuclear treaty: Russia follows US in suspending pact

    Russia has suspended its involvement in the Cold War-era Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) following a similar decision by the US.

    President Vladimir Putin said Russia would start developing new missiles.

    On Friday, the US, which has long accused Russia of violating the treaty, formally announced it was suspending its obligations under the agreement.

    Signed in 1987 by the US and USSR, it banned the use of short and medium-range missiles by both countries.

    Hey ho, we had a thaw in the Cold War in a while, but Putin is a nut job joined by another nutcase in the White House. At least living in London, if the nuclear missiles do start flying, I probably will never see it coming, let alone feel it.


    Cooler heads need to prevail, but that won't happen until both of these men are out of office and it doesn't look like Czar Putin is going anywhere.

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  • They & we know there are no winners just different levels of losing.


    I think 🤔 a......

    Should I build a bunker thread might be a good idea 💡


    😉

  • But the thing is Revo, look at Putin's actions in Ukraine and his other neighbours. Look at what he did in this country. How can we ever be sure that nuclear weapons would not be used. There isn't much point in having them, if there is no possibility of them ever being used.

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  • Russia can not conventionality reach around the world militarily like we can, Putin can only play in his back yard, his only option for world domination is nuclear war, he wants the old boarders back and domination over the Black Sea.


    He basically mimics the US in land grabs.

  • I agree that Putin would prefer the old USSR, but as he's already proven, his warfare is now unconventional, as well as conventional.


    First of all there's the example of his biological attacks on our shores. Let me say that again, he has used WMD in our country and done it twice, which is why I'm not as confident as you, that he would never use nuclear weapons.


    His second method of warfare, is cyber warfare. Influencing western elections, creating fake accounts on social media and sowing discord.


    He is dangerous and I wish we'd taken him out a long time ago.

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  • The Russians’ have started siting S-400 misslie launchers all the way along the coast near Northern Clover military base in the Arctic Circle


    The Royal United Services Institute warns that Britain needs to take Mr Putin’s belligerent approach in the region seriously. Russia is building new infrastructure for anti-aircraft units in a show of military might not seen in the region since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991,


    The S-400 is not an inisgnificant system, it can chuck a missile 250 miles at Mach 12, and can operate is stealth mode whilst tracking an hitting an aircraft.


    Look at it like this, you could site the launcher in Newcastle and accurately shoot down a jet landing at Heathrow in about 4 mins

  • If Putin can force himself somewhere whether it be the Arctic or Balkans, he will. It's just a case of how much resistance he gets. It doesn't help that he's paranoid, so rather than investing in his country, he puts missiles in the Arctic.


    In other news, we're sending five Apache helicopters to Estonia to bolster NATO defences there. The Russians have thousands of attack helicopters, so I doubt they will care, but it does at least send a message to Putin that we're not Ukraine.

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  • If Putin can force himself somewhere whether it be the Arctic or Balkans, he will. It's just a case of how much resistance he gets. It doesn't help that he's paranoid, so rather than investing in his country, he puts missiles in the Arctic.


    In other news, we're sending five Apache helicopters to Estonia to bolster NATO defences there. The Russians have thousands of attack helicopters, so I doubt they will care, but it does at least send a message to Putin that we're not Ukraine.

    Well hes not paranoid, but hes a lot smarter than you give him credit.


    He knows that the one thing that get russians cheering is patriotism, and promises to 'make russia great again' (now where have we heard that before). The loss of the USSR basically humiliated Russia in exactly the same way the Versailles Treaty humiliated Germany. Putin knows by being bullish and waving the russian flag, he gains points in the polls. Plus it stimulates the Russian economy.


    Now where last did we get a humiliated country rebuilding its national pride by militarisation and war mongering....

  • True, but for many ordinary Russians, his chest beating and invading neighbours, doesn't improve their lot at all.

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  • INF nuclear treaty: US pulls out of Cold War-era pact with Russia

    The US has formally withdrawn from a key nuclear treaty with Russia, raising fears of a new arms race.

    The Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) was signed by US President Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev in 1987.

    It banned missiles with ranges between 500 and 5,500 km (310-3,400 miles).

    But earlier this year the US and Nato accused Russia of violating the pact by deploying a new type of cruise missile, which Moscow has denied.

    The Americans said they had evidence that Russia had deployed a number of 9M729 missiles - known to Nato as SSC-8. This accusation was then put to Washington's Nato allies, which all backed the US claim.

    Although I don't normally agree with Trump on many things, the Russians had blatantly violated this treaty as mentioned earlier in this thread, so what's the point of keeping the pretence that everything is okay? Clearly it's not.


    Russia with Putin as its leader, is belligerent and needs to be stood up against.


    Looks like The Cold War part 2 is now fully underway.:rolleyes:

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  • Skripal case: US slaps new sanctions on Russia

    US President Donald Trump has imposed new sanctions against Russia over the poisoning of a former Russian spy and his daughter in the UK in March 2018.

    US banks are now banned from providing loans to Russia, and Washington will also be opposing any loan extension to Moscow by international institutions.

    Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with the Russian nerve agent Novichok in Salisbury, though they have now recovered.

    There's already a thread on the Russian attack on the spies in the UK, but as this story is going far wider, I'm posting this here.


    Good on Trump!:):thumbup:


    The American's already imposed tough sanctions on Russia over the Salisbury attack and this is a further squeeze and comes at the exact same time that Trump is pulling out of the nuclear treaty.


    I questioned (several times) whether Trump was in Putin's pocket, well this is the clear answer. No, he's not. At this rate, I might even start to warm to Trump a bit, a bit.


    If we don't stand up to the Russians, we'll face the same fate as Eastern Ukraine and other areas.

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  • With Russia in a almost complete breakdown, you think money might be poured into other projects like healthcare, but no Putin is always looking to build the next doomsday weapon.

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  • Yep. He's a little bit too quiet at the moment, don't you think? I wonder what he's plotting now.

    I would imagine he's rubbing his hands with glee at the EU seemingly falling apart and his pal Donald riding high in the USA

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

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