Will Boris get Brexit done?

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  • Yes, this sinister media compliant collusion to paint Boris a fiend and the sacked a gaggle of saints is so odd as to make Britain look like the satellite of Europe it has allowed itself to become.

    This, in a way, is now a war like battle to get Britain back from those who, from the end of WWII, have consistently tried to destroy everything Britain stands for, stood for and could be. The trolls are revving it up elsewhere, I notice as well because they think they smell blood. The media is not on the side of Britain it's on the side of those who want to be part of the imperial EU. The media is dangerous and works off psychological manipulation. So does social media. All laced with poison that gullible folk lap up because they make them want to appear to be good. They use the indoctrination tools of ideology and religions. They know they have huge success rates. It's a perilous time for people who can't think for themselves as the left has spent so much time and energy brainwashing generations that Britain is bad, only the strong and independent will be able to face the monsters of EU pique at this time.

    And it's a fight you have to win. Taking part is good but if the clowns win, then you're back in the circus and their ringmasters will take it out on you because that's the way lovely humanists are when they feel powerful.

    I notice they are turning the clown world meme around now and applying it as a projected image onto patriots. Not very smart, but then they work off mass hysteria and lynch mob mentality. There are cartoons emerging that portray the right as clowns instead. Pathetic. It will please the mob. But it is a farce. We all know who the real clowns are and they aren't funny.

  • It seems they are now going to use their spanking new legislation to try and impeach Boris. You have no idea how much this reminds me of the way the apartheid regime used to operate in the old South Africa. Oppression by legislation. They could put a new law into operation practically overnight if it was going to crush any opposition. They were utter fascists. I hope the remoaners realise how much like some of the world's worst political tyrants they are. Those of us who have experienced this tyranny on both left and right sides of the political axis cannot be lied to when we see it again, no matter how much perfume they spray to disguise the smell.

  • My trust in politicians has been completely destroyed.

    Where is the campaign to inform the public of the benefits of Brexit.

    Where are the challenges to Project Fear?

    Why is nobody pointing out that the pre-referendum Project Fear has been thoroughly discredited?

    Why is nobody pointing out the dangers of remaining in the EU?

    Why is nobody pointing out the lies from politicians who promised to respect the referendum result, both personally and in their manifestos, and then discarded their promises once re-elected?

    Why are politicians allowed to lie with impunity?

    Why are politicians being allowed to undermine and destroy our democracy?

    Why are we not being allowed a GE?

    Why isn't Boris shouting all of the above from the rooftops?

    I am beginning to think this is all showmanship, and there is no real intention to take us out of the EU. All we will hear is 'we tried', when they didn't really try at all.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Many do speak out and are crushed by trolls. There is a veritable army of the smelly creatures out there, practising every kind of tactic to shut people up. I think politicians who have a cunning plan might feel they need to keep shtum on account of the viciousness of the media and the tendency for the internet so-called free speech platforms to be overrun with really dirty operators.

    (Many of us have been on the rough end of their tactics.)

  • Brexit: MPs to hold second vote on early election

    The government is to ask MPs to agree to a snap election for a second time, in what could be one of Parliament's last acts before being suspended.

    No 10 has billed Monday's vote as Labour's "last chance" to secure an early general election.

    But the government is expected to be defeated, with opposition parties wanting their law aimed at avoiding a no-deal Brexit to be implemented first.

    Boris Johnson is also due to meet Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar in Dublin.

    So, will this GE bill get passed today? It doesn't look like it. The MPs seem determined not to have a GE until after the EU conference and after they've forced Boris to ask for a extension, but could we be saved by a unlikely source?:

    France says Non

    France today said the EU will not agree a Brexit delay beyond October 31 amid claims Boris Johnson will defy the law and 'sabotage' an extension if he is unable to strike a deal with Brussels.

    Jean-Yves Le Drian, the French foreign minister, said the Brexit meltdown in the UK was 'very worrying' as he insisted an extension would not be possible under the current circumstances.

    Perhaps the French may yet be our saviours. The irony of it!

  • I doubt France will aid the UK. If they try, they will be 'leaned on' by the EU and suitably punished if they ignore the warning.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Amber Rudd’s main reason for quitting was that BJ’s government expended 80-90% of its efforts preparing for no deal and only 10-20% negotiating for a deal, ergo, government intends to leave without a deal.

    I can't decide if Amber Rudd is playing dumb or really is. It is shallow or stupid to think degree of importance determines percentage of time or effort devoted to it. What matters is prioritisation and efficient allocation of effort. The blindingly obvious first step is to be prepared for no-deal, requiring much effort to get necessary resources and logistics into place. It is also the Government's shrewd first step in negotiation, more powerful and convincing than mere words, in persuading the EU that Britain is preparing for no deal, and hence that rescinding Article 50 or accepting a BINO deal is not on the agenda.

    Besides, neither Britain nor the EU need spend much time negotiating a deal after three time-wasting ruinous years where all options have been debated to destruction and left gathering cobwebs. All that's needed now is for the EU, at the 11th hour, which is their modus operandi, to select what it knows BJ's cabinet would find acceptable as a deal for a self-ruling Britain to retaining a good political and trading relationship with the EU. It’s near enough Theresa May's last deal three times rejected by Parliament but this time with a backstop that either the EU or UK can unilaterally rescind; where in its place will be acceptance of a soft customs border arrangement that can be agreed upon and implemented within the next couple of years.

    I am convinced the EU would be willing to permit that amendment but sadly I’m equally convinced the EU realises it will be wasting its time even bothering to do so. This is because the EU knows that the UK Parliament will unable or unwilling to approve that amended deal ………. or indeed any deal. Britain today is governed by what the Government and civil service is able to implement without requiring parliamentary assent or being thwarted by a motion and proposal that ties its Government’s hands.

    This unwillingness of Parliament to agree is because the Labour party, with or without a Lib-Lab-SNP coalition, is hellbent on occupying 10 Downing Street by fair means or foul and will propose and vote against anything which the Conservative Party Government wants to implement. This Fools Gold Opportunity for a malignantly successful opposition to bring down a government was thanks to the seeds of destruction planted by that fatuous toff David Cameron in the form of a referendum (aka People Democracy), cultivated into bindweed by the pythonesque dead parrot non-leadership of Theresa May, who managed to reduce the Conservative government to a wafer-thin majority who then argued among themselves and couldn’t decide who should be their new leader and took a chance on real leadership with Boris Johnson but had forgotten what real leadership would mean for them.

    The EU realises all this, notably that Parliament has become chronically dysfunctional, therefore sees no point in negotiating with a government without a workable majority, only to end up offering an acceptable deal that will be debated to destruction by Parliament.

    The ghastly truth is that the majority of Parliament wants to remain in the EU but the pseudo leavers dare not admit it because that would alienate half of the electorate. Instead it is more expeditious for a coalesced opposition, united against their common enemy, to badmouth the Conservative Government. Sadly, Boris Johnson is the perfect fall guy for this tactic as Britain today has an incurable allergy to success, initiative, entrepreneurship and positive thinking, which enables the opposition to go to bat on a General Election campaign fake manifesto that promises to succeed where the Conservatives have failed, in “getting a deal”.

    Once the coalition opposition have won the election and the keys to Number 10 they will conspire with the EU, behind closed doors, to agree to rescind Article 50 ……. and persuade the EU to agree to some specific face-saving near-meaningless gesture that will enable the British electorate to imagine that Britain has gained the “reforming” influence it needed within the EU. Over half the electorate will be taken in by that ruse (or subliminally kid themselves) - it is the persuasion technique known as “a suspension of disbelief”). The disillusioned minority - the hard uncompromising Brexiteers - will protest in the streets, not least because protesting about something or anything is all the rage in Britain today (and it’s “something to do” if you’re unemployed, or self-employed, or in the gig-economy, or a student, or at a loose end, or with a screw loose). It can be shrugged off by a coalition government that is in power for 5 years. After all, if a week in politics is a long time, 5 years is an eternity and that so-called Vision Thing is just election-speak/political bull££it, along with “making a difference for one’s children and grandchildren”.

  • Well said. Let's hope there remains some hope within the people that they will not make the mistake of giving Labour what it wants and using the Lib Dem temporarily to do so. Just how dementedly stupid and pathetically irresponsible can anyone be?

  • This is what I always feared about Boris and said so on this site last year, as he is essentially pro EU and then of course there were his two letters to the Telegraph, one being pro-EU and the other being anti-EU, but I'll still give him to the end of October.

    These public schoolboys are all of the same ilk, they just like all the "fun" and chaos and don't really believe in anything.

    As to your points, I think you should send that to the BBC, but I agree, we are universally only getting one viewpoint of events.

  • It seems they are now going to use their spanking new legislation to try and impeach Boris. You have no idea how much this reminds me of the way the apartheid regime used to operate in the old South Africa. Oppression by legislation. They could put a new law into operation practically overnight if it was going to crush any opposition. They were utter fascists. I hope the remoaners realise how much like some of the world's worst political tyrants they are. Those of us who have experienced this tyranny on both left and right sides of the political axis cannot be lied to when we see it again, no matter how much perfume they spray to disguise the smell.

    I don't know if you saw it LW, but this law getting passed now had passages in it saying that it shouldn't be debated in parliament and should be passed, sounds very much like a repressive regime, I agree.

    Boris is supposedly looking to get around this no-deal law he will be bound by by sending one letter to the EU asking for an extension to article 50, thus honouring the law, then send another letter to the EU saying he doesn't want an extension.

    Politics students will be studying all this mess for decades to come.

  • Commons Speaker John Bercow to stand down

    John Bercow says he will stand down as Commons Speaker at the next election or on 31 October, whichever comes first.

    Speaking in Parliament, Mr Bercow said his 10-year "tenure" was nearing its end and it had been the "greatest honour and privilege" to serve.

    If there was no early election, he said leaving on 31 October would be the "least disruptive and most democratic" time to go.

    At least he's true to the end...:rolleyes: We have so much to deal with, yet that doesn't stop Bercow making a long goodbye speech and allowing multiple tributes for him. The news yesterday that the conservative party are planning to stand a candidate in the GE (if there is one), was obviously what pushed him to go.

    Good riddance to this pompous prat and I'm sure all the alleged Commons staff who said they were bullied by him, will be glad to see him gone too.

  • Yes, another one bites the dust. It saves them the indignity of receiving their P45's.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • 1 This is what I always feared about Boris and said so on this site last year, as he is essentially pro EU and then of course there were his two letters to the Telegraph, one being pro-EU and the other being anti-EU, but I'll still give him to the end of October.

    2 These public schoolboys are all of the same ilk, they just like all the "fun" and chaos and don't really believe in anything.

    3 As to your points, I think you should send that to the BBC, but I agree, we are universally only getting one viewpoint of events.

    1 I gather he wrote both a Leave and Remain article but only one was published. What's wrong with being of two minds? After all, there were +'s and -'s. His way of weighing them would be by writing two articles - pro Remain versus pro Leave - because, for goodness sake, that manner of thinking and weighing up things is what he did for a living, it's called being a writer, not a bean counter. Also, the referendum revealed that Britain as a whole was near-equally split between pro and remain. And we know today that this near-equal split is not only a simple dyed-in-the-wool split like being for or against Marmite but also includes many citizens that are in two minds about it, ambivalent, sensing or recognising the +'s and -'s but having to decide in a referendum which to vote for on balance. I cannot think of another country that can match us for superficiality - a less superficial electorate would choose less superficial MP's

    2 Let me guess, you didn't go to public school!I Instead you went to one of those schools where you could do woodwork. Is that how you got that chip on your shoulder?!

    3 Which viewpoint are you referring to? You're a Brexiteer. So am I. And you've got a forum! All I keep hearing on this forum - and others - and in media - and in Parliament - is that:

    - Those running the EU are unelected (ie not democratic - wow, does that put us in a glass house?!?!)

    - And that they impose their rules and regulations on EU citizens (like our government does to us!)

    Why hasn't any Brexiteer on this forum (or in the media or in Parliament) raised or discussed points about ......

    - EU federalisation and an increasing cultural and political homogeneity across countries that are in the EU member states?

    - the EU being in economic difficulties that are greater than ours?

    - why we in Britain are so pedantic about adhering to every EU rule? ("the law's the law" is the mantra of morons)

    - why if given half the chance we blame EU rules & regulations for our failures and handicaps? Many of the other nation states- even France - ignore or circumvent many EU rules they don't like - and they get away with it. By contrast we use the EU rules & regulations - or invent their existence - as a standard excuse when our Government fails to do its job properly. Truly a nation of whingers! Just wait 'til next summer when someone loses an eye to a greedy/hungry pecking seagull. Would we still be saying that we can't cull seagulls because there is an EU regulation against doing so? Because that's been the excuse so far to culling seagulls.

    Let's face it, we're a nanny state. Are we really ready to leave home and to try and make a living in this big tough exciting world? Doesn't seem or sound like it. All I hear is "catastrophe", "falling off a cliff", "crashing out", and a "10% decrease of GDP 20 years from now .... and even then only if "all other factors are equal", ie if we just stand there looking out bewilderingly across the Channel and wondering what we should do now that the EU doesn't want to buy much from us. Duuurrrr!

  • 1 I gather he wrote both a Leave and Remain article but only one was published. What's wrong with being of two minds?

    He can think what he wants, but letting it be known that he had written both was a mistake.

    Also, the referendum revealed that Britain as a whole was near-equally split between pro and remain.

    A majority of areas voted leave, it's only London with its massive and foreign population that mainly voted remain which gave the impression that the country was spilt down the middle, it's not.

    2 Let me guess, you didn't go to public school!I Instead you went to one of those schools where you could do woodwork. Is that how you got that chip on your shoulder?!

    I would've love to have been good at woodwork, unfortunately I was utterly useless at it.

    Why hasn't any Brexiteer on this forum (or in the media or in Parliament) raised or discussed points about ......

    - EU federalisation and an increasing cultural and political homogeneity across countries that are in the EU member states?

    - the EU being in economic difficulties that are greater than ours?

    We have. Perhaps you were asleep on those days.

    Because that's been the excuse so far to culling seagulls.

    All the more reason to leave the EU, so no more excuses can be made.

    Let's face it, we're a nanny state.

    Perhaps. It's hard to believe now that we once had the largest empire the world had even seen.

    I think our confidence can be brought back and by the way, I don't blame the EU for our problems, but those elements within our country always trying to do it harm.

  • 1 Why does there need to be another campaign? Have the 52% who voted to Leave forgotten why they did? Does the Brexit movement think they can increase that 52% with a new campaign? The Remainder movement would of course be justified in producing their own new campaign to rebut Brexit's. After 3 years that has exposed Parliament as rendering Brexit undeliverable, I think it is more likely that more Leavers would switch to Remain than vice versa

    2 Couldn't agree more that there are powerful challenges to the dishonesty or stupidity of Project Fear. I'm amazed that Leaver MP's haven't contested the deliberate lack of objectivity or evenhandedness of Project Fear. I think such challenges are being denied oxygen in the media. Worse still, there is a terrible arrogance among MP's (not only the Leavers) that the average voter lacks the mental ability or motivation to get to grips with the factual challenges that contradict or challenge Project Fear.

    3 I think the reason why the pre-referendum Project Fear has been discredited is that it made promises it couldn't keep or indeed prove (and I'm not just talking about the NHS cash promise - that was just an isolated poster of typical ad hype, hardly a solid manifesto (and since when do MP's keep to their Manifestos!?!)

    4 Couldn't agree more on the disturbing absence of pointing out the dangers of Remaining in the EU. No-one, not even in this Forum, is nailing down those dangers. All we do, at the most, is refer to the "labels" or "buzz words" like "sovereignty", "illegal immigration", "own laws", "non-EU trade deals" etc. Images and perception really ought not to be the new reality. Facts and substance need to make a comeback into people's belief system.

    5 As for pointing out the lies from politicians who promised to respect the referendum result, I'm pretty sure the whole of Britain is aware of those lies. Somebody should distribute a leaflet and a booklet of political Glossary of Terms & Phrases, which shows what is said and underneath what they really mean. eg "Let me be perfectly clear ....." = "I'm about to lie to you ...."

    6 You ask why politicians are allowed to lie with impunity. The short answer is because they are politicians? The slightly longer answer is because the media are too dumb or biased or both to understand or acknowledge the lie, let alone recognise it as a lie, let alone have the brainpower or objectivity to challenge the lie? It doesn't help that a large chunk of the media are "champagne socialists".

    7 The reason why politicians undermine and destroy our democracy is because their notion of democracy is different to ours. They think they understand better than us mere voters what democracy is supposed to be all about? MP's think they are the custodians of democracy. They think this custodianship was handed to them when they won the votes in their constituency.

    8 The reason why Britain is not being allowed a GE is because at this point in time it gets in the way of MP's concept of democracy. What we have here is a conflict of interest between MP's career progress (laughingly described as partisanship or principles) and voters' hopes, frustrations and difficulties (blithely dismissed by MP's as dissatisfactions to be assuaged and protesting divisions to united). Or as Groucho Marx said: "I have principles and if you don't like them, I have other principles"

    9 One of the reasons why Boris isn't "shouting the above from the rooftops" is that right now voters can't help him? Right now his overriding enemy to be vanquished is Parliament? Worse than that, if he does shout all this from the rooftops he will be accused by his enemy (parliament) of electioneering rather than delivering on Brexit as promised.

    10 You are right to think it's showmanship. But isn't that bound to happen in the spotlight of media? It doesn't automatically mean there isn't real political intent, good or bad, behind the showmanship. If you think there is "no real intention to take us out of the EU" are you referring to a clear majority in Parliament on all sides of the house, including a great many who say they are leavers; especially those who say they are being "loyal" to the Referendum or Democracy or the majority of their constituency - every reason except their personal convictions about Leaving - which you might feel, as I do, is a conspicuous absence of the key reason. Although I share your sense of cynical despair, I can't believe Boris also has Remain as his inward intention. I think he is a Leaver in heat and mind. In any case, if it ever became evident that he was really a Remainer, reluctant or otherwise, his days as Prime Minister - or even as an MP backbencher - would be terminated ASAP almost as quick as you can say b-e-r-c-o-w

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