Boris forms Brexit crack squad. Will the UK leave the EU with a deal or no deal?

  • Well said. Let's hope there remains some hope within the people that they will not make the mistake of giving Labour what it wants and using the Lib Dem temporarily to do so. Just how dementedly stupid and pathetically irresponsible can anyone be?

    There, in a mauve light of drifted lupins,

    They hung in the cupped hands of mountains

    Made of tingling atoms.- Ted Hughes


  • Latest news:


    Boris Johnson will suspend Parliament TONIGHT: PM triggers prorogation despite facing defeat in latest bid to force election - as Brexit battle heads for Supreme Court over No10 plan to sabotage law against No Deal

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  • This is what I always feared about Boris and said so on this site last year, as he is essentially pro EU and then of course there were his two letters to the Telegraph, one being pro-EU and the other being anti-EU, but I'll still give him to the end of October.


    These public schoolboys are all of the same ilk, they just like all the "fun" and chaos and don't really believe in anything.


    As to your points, I think you should send that to the BBC, but I agree, we are universally only getting one viewpoint of events.

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  • Ha! Parliament to be suspended.

    That was going to happen anyway LW, because all the politicians go off for conference season for several weeks. It's not as if there's anything more important to deal with...

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  • It seems they are now going to use their spanking new legislation to try and impeach Boris. You have no idea how much this reminds me of the way the apartheid regime used to operate in the old South Africa. Oppression by legislation. They could put a new law into operation practically overnight if it was going to crush any opposition. They were utter fascists. I hope the remoaners realise how much like some of the world's worst political tyrants they are. Those of us who have experienced this tyranny on both left and right sides of the political axis cannot be lied to when we see it again, no matter how much perfume they spray to disguise the smell.

    I don't know if you saw it LW, but this law getting passed now had passages in it saying that it shouldn't be debated in parliament and should be passed, sounds very much like a repressive regime, I agree.


    Boris is supposedly looking to get around this no-deal law he will be bound by by sending one letter to the EU asking for an extension to article 50, thus honouring the law, then send another letter to the EU saying he doesn't want an extension.

    Politics students will be studying all this mess for decades to come.

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  • Commons Speaker John Bercow to stand down

    John Bercow says he will stand down as Commons Speaker at the next election or on 31 October, whichever comes first.

    Speaking in Parliament, Mr Bercow said his 10-year "tenure" was nearing its end and it had been the "greatest honour and privilege" to serve.

    If there was no early election, he said leaving on 31 October would be the "least disruptive and most democratic" time to go.

    At least he's true to the end...:rolleyes: We have so much to deal with, yet that doesn't stop Bercow making a long goodbye speech and allowing multiple tributes for him. The news yesterday that the conservative party are planning to stand a candidate in the GE (if there is one), was obviously what pushed him to go.


    Good riddance to this pompous prat and I'm sure all the alleged Commons staff who said they were bullied by him, will be glad to see him gone too.

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  • 1 This is what I always feared about Boris and said so on this site last year, as he is essentially pro EU and then of course there were his two letters to the Telegraph, one being pro-EU and the other being anti-EU, but I'll still give him to the end of October.


    2 These public schoolboys are all of the same ilk, they just like all the "fun" and chaos and don't really believe in anything.


    3 As to your points, I think you should send that to the BBC, but I agree, we are universally only getting one viewpoint of events.

    1 I gather he wrote both a Leave and Remain article but only one was published. What's wrong with being of two minds? After all, there were +'s and -'s. His way of weighing them would be by writing two articles - pro Remain versus pro Leave - because, for goodness sake, that manner of thinking and weighing up things is what he did for a living, it's called being a writer, not a bean counter. Also, the referendum revealed that Britain as a whole was near-equally split between pro and remain. And we know today that this near-equal split is not only a simple dyed-in-the-wool split like being for or against Marmite but also includes many citizens that are in two minds about it, ambivalent, sensing or recognising the +'s and -'s but having to decide in a referendum which to vote for on balance. I cannot think of another country that can match us for superficiality - a less superficial electorate would choose less superficial MP's


    2 Let me guess, you didn't go to public school!I Instead you went to one of those schools where you could do woodwork. Is that how you got that chip on your shoulder?!


    3 Which viewpoint are you referring to? You're a Brexiteer. So am I. And you've got a forum! All I keep hearing on this forum - and others - and in media - and in Parliament - is that:


    - Those running the EU are unelected (ie not democratic - wow, does that put us in a glass house?!?!)


    - And that they impose their rules and regulations on EU citizens (like our government does to us!)


    Why hasn't any Brexiteer on this forum (or in the media or in Parliament) raised or discussed points about ......


    - EU federalisation and an increasing cultural and political homogeneity across countries that are in the EU member states?


    - the EU being in economic difficulties that are greater than ours?


    - why we in Britain are so pedantic about adhering to every EU rule? ("the law's the law" is the mantra of morons)


    - why if given half the chance we blame EU rules & regulations for our failures and handicaps? Many of the other nation states- even France - ignore or circumvent many EU rules they don't like - and they get away with it. By contrast we use the EU rules & regulations - or invent their existence - as a standard excuse when our Government fails to do its job properly. Truly a nation of whingers! Just wait 'til next summer when someone loses an eye to a greedy/hungry pecking seagull. Would we still be saying that we can't cull seagulls because there is an EU regulation against doing so? Because that's been the excuse so far to culling seagulls.


    Let's face it, we're a nanny state. Are we really ready to leave home and to try and make a living in this big tough exciting world? Doesn't seem or sound like it. All I hear is "catastrophe", "falling off a cliff", "crashing out", and a "10% decrease of GDP 20 years from now .... and even then only if "all other factors are equal", ie if we just stand there looking out bewilderingly across the Channel and wondering what we should do now that the EU doesn't want to buy much from us. Duuurrrr!

  • 1 I gather he wrote both a Leave and Remain article but only one was published. What's wrong with being of two minds?

    He can think what he wants, but letting it be known that he had written both was a mistake.

    Also, the referendum revealed that Britain as a whole was near-equally split between pro and remain.

    A majority of areas voted leave, it's only London with its massive and foreign population that mainly voted remain which gave the impression that the country was spilt down the middle, it's not.

    2 Let me guess, you didn't go to public school!I Instead you went to one of those schools where you could do woodwork. Is that how you got that chip on your shoulder?!

    I would've love to have been good at woodwork, unfortunately I was utterly useless at it.

    Why hasn't any Brexiteer on this forum (or in the media or in Parliament) raised or discussed points about ......


    - EU federalisation and an increasing cultural and political homogeneity across countries that are in the EU member states?


    - the EU being in economic difficulties that are greater than ours?

    We have. Perhaps you were asleep on those days.

    Because that's been the excuse so far to culling seagulls.

    All the more reason to leave the EU, so no more excuses can be made.

    Let's face it, we're a nanny state.

    Perhaps. It's hard to believe now that we once had the largest empire the world had even seen.


    I think our confidence can be brought back and by the way, I don't blame the EU for our problems, but those elements within our country always trying to do it harm.

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  • 1 Why does there need to be another campaign? Have the 52% who voted to Leave forgotten why they did? Does the Brexit movement think they can increase that 52% with a new campaign? The Remainder movement would of course be justified in producing their own new campaign to rebut Brexit's. After 3 years that has exposed Parliament as rendering Brexit undeliverable, I think it is more likely that more Leavers would switch to Remain than vice versa


    2 Couldn't agree more that there are powerful challenges to the dishonesty or stupidity of Project Fear. I'm amazed that Leaver MP's haven't contested the deliberate lack of objectivity or evenhandedness of Project Fear. I think such challenges are being denied oxygen in the media. Worse still, there is a terrible arrogance among MP's (not only the Leavers) that the average voter lacks the mental ability or motivation to get to grips with the factual challenges that contradict or challenge Project Fear.


    3 I think the reason why the pre-referendum Project Fear has been discredited is that it made promises it couldn't keep or indeed prove (and I'm not just talking about the NHS cash promise - that was just an isolated poster of typical ad hype, hardly a solid manifesto (and since when do MP's keep to their Manifestos!?!)


    4 Couldn't agree more on the disturbing absence of pointing out the dangers of Remaining in the EU. No-one, not even in this Forum, is nailing down those dangers. All we do, at the most, is refer to the "labels" or "buzz words" like "sovereignty", "illegal immigration", "own laws", "non-EU trade deals" etc. Images and perception really ought not to be the new reality. Facts and substance need to make a comeback into people's belief system.


    5 As for pointing out the lies from politicians who promised to respect the referendum result, I'm pretty sure the whole of Britain is aware of those lies. Somebody should distribute a leaflet and a booklet of political Glossary of Terms & Phrases, which shows what is said and underneath what they really mean. eg "Let me be perfectly clear ....." = "I'm about to lie to you ...."


    6 You ask why politicians are allowed to lie with impunity. The short answer is because they are politicians? The slightly longer answer is because the media are too dumb or biased or both to understand or acknowledge the lie, let alone recognise it as a lie, let alone have the brainpower or objectivity to challenge the lie? It doesn't help that a large chunk of the media are "champagne socialists".


    7 The reason why politicians undermine and destroy our democracy is because their notion of democracy is different to ours. They think they understand better than us mere voters what democracy is supposed to be all about? MP's think they are the custodians of democracy. They think this custodianship was handed to them when they won the votes in their constituency.


    8 The reason why Britain is not being allowed a GE is because at this point in time it gets in the way of MP's concept of democracy. What we have here is a conflict of interest between MP's career progress (laughingly described as partisanship or principles) and voters' hopes, frustrations and difficulties (blithely dismissed by MP's as dissatisfactions to be assuaged and protesting divisions to united). Or as Groucho Marx said: "I have principles and if you don't like them, I have other principles"


    9 One of the reasons why Boris isn't "shouting the above from the rooftops" is that right now voters can't help him? Right now his overriding enemy to be vanquished is Parliament? Worse than that, if he does shout all this from the rooftops he will be accused by his enemy (parliament) of electioneering rather than delivering on Brexit as promised.


    10 You are right to think it's showmanship. But isn't that bound to happen in the spotlight of media? It doesn't automatically mean there isn't real political intent, good or bad, behind the showmanship. If you think there is "no real intention to take us out of the EU" are you referring to a clear majority in Parliament on all sides of the house, including a great many who say they are leavers; especially those who say they are being "loyal" to the Referendum or Democracy or the majority of their constituency - every reason except their personal convictions about Leaving - which you might feel, as I do, is a conspicuous absence of the key reason. Although I share your sense of cynical despair, I can't believe Boris also has Remain as his inward intention. I think he is a Leaver in heat and mind. In any case, if it ever became evident that he was really a Remainer, reluctant or otherwise, his days as Prime Minister - or even as an MP backbencher - would be terminated ASAP almost as quick as you can say b-e-r-c-o-w

  • 1 I agree. Mistake to overrate the understanding of our electorate

    2 Teenage answer: whatever. Grown up answer: you're oversimplifying as well as deflecting my point about ambivalence
    Also, I gave you the answer over a year ago which put paid to tour London argument about confounding the split - I showed you the %'s by area - it was pretty straightforward - I hope you were asleep at the time because that at least would be a less embarrassing excuse!

    3 After leaving school I worked for my father who was a cabinet maker. I got good at it. It was a furniture colony just off Great Eastern Street - great vibes but that kind of skill trade eventually vanished - and me too

    4 I do sleep on occasion.

    5 Absolutely.

    6 Towards the end I think the Romans probably said something like that about their empire

    7 Hope so. Probably with our customary arrogance

    8 Glad you feel that way. Just like us, they're stubborn bastards. I just wish we had a fraction of their savoir faire

  • The suspension of parliament is no big deal as they usually swan off for and all expenses jolly in a plush hotel and conference at this time of year anyhow and there's no way they would want to miss out on that, so the cribbing about it is all playing up to the cameras and attention seeking.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Disagree Ron. They've blocked a GE for a second time and have probably prevented us leaving the EU on the 31st Oct, unless Boris can find a way around it.

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  • unless Boris can find a way around it.

    He could always go to jail to serve the country.


    I hope that there's a cunning plan (Not the Baldrick kind^^) otherwise why did the Tory lords not filibuster the Benn bill?

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • Well the process was triggered for leaving the EU so unless the legislation surrounding that is meaningless we should be leaving the EU, mind you that should have happened when the first deadline came and went, it seems the only legislation tha carries any weight is that which prevents the UK leaving with no deal, funny how the courts only choose to uphold certain pieces of legislation, so much for impartial courts, eh! ;)

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Keep up Ron!:P


    The legislation passed yesterday forces Boris to either leave the EU with a deal or request an extension to article 50 with the effect that the EU will not bother negotiationing anything now, so no, it is far from clear that we'll leave on the 31st.

    I hope that there's a cunning plan (Not the Baldrick kind ^^ ) otherwise why did the Tory lords not filibuster the Benn bill?

    Don't know, but I think Boris just wanted the MPs gone, so the government can think about what to do next without all the distractions.

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  • Parliament has officially been suspended for five weeks, with MPs not due back until 14 October.

    Amid unprecedented scenes in the Commons, some MPs protested against the suspension with signs saying "silenced" while shouting: "Shame on you."

    It comes after PM Boris Johnson's bid to call a snap election in October was defeated for a second time.

    Saw a bit of this on tv last night, what a fooking scene.:thumbdown:


    The Labour MPs voted against an election, then tried to prevent Bercow getting out of his chair to begin the prorogation ceremony.

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  • As Bercow leaves so does Harriet Harman put her name down in a race to replace him . Harriet Harman as Speaker? =O

    There, in a mauve light of drifted lupins,

    They hung in the cupped hands of mountains

    Made of tingling atoms.- Ted Hughes


  • Keep up Ron!

    Well considering how long they have been fucking about for it no wonder its not clear what the fuck is going on, we need rid of the rabble of shit that is parliament, only problem is they will just get replaced with another rabble of shit, we need a modern day Guy Fawkes and crew just hope they are successful this time around.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • It might come to that.


    I live in what is predominately an area with older people and when grannies start getting angry as they are in my area, anything can happen.

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  • Just seen the news. Corbyn back on Project Fear again. Clutching at straws.

    There, in a mauve light of drifted lupins,

    They hung in the cupped hands of mountains

    Made of tingling atoms.- Ted Hughes


  • Corbyn on the soap box now. No deal Brexit will help the rich get richer is his opinion. Really? I thought it was a disaster that was going to plunge Britain into endless poverty and misery. Apparently not. It's going to help people get rich. Things are really desperate when a Socialist decides he should threaten a nation with success. ^^

    There, in a mauve light of drifted lupins,

    They hung in the cupped hands of mountains

    Made of tingling atoms.- Ted Hughes


  • As Bercow leaves so does Harriet Harman put her name down in a race to replace him . Harriet Harman as Speaker? =O

    The rumours going around are that Bercow wants his replacement chosen while the Commons is still full of Remainers.


    The resistance to a GE, and the Remainers determination to get another Remainer Speaker BEFORE a GE is very telling! They fear the electorate, and so they should.

  • An interesting article on John Redwoods blog today, which transcribes his speech in the Commons.


    My speech during the debate on the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 (Rule of Law)


    Here is an excerpt:


    This is no normal law. A normal law applies to everyone in the country equally, there are criminal penalties for those who break the law, and we wish to see the law enforced. This is not that kind of a law. This Act of Parliament is a political instruction to our Prime Minister about how he should behave in an international negotiation. Normally, this Parliament takes the view that international negotiations are best handled in detail by the Government, and we the Parliament judge the result by either approving or disapproving of it.

  • Shocking scenes in the Commons last night with Labour's thugs running riot, so much for democracy

    At least Emily Thornberry has clarified their position, Labour will renegotiate a Brexit deal and then tell the EU that we will remain

    Is that clear !!!!!!!!!!!

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Shocking scenes in the Commons last night with Labour's thugs running riot, so much for democracy

    At least Emily Thornberry has clarified their position, Labour will renegotiate a Brexit deal and then tell the EU that we will remain

    Is that clear !!!!!!!!!!!

    It was absolutely disgusting and what the BBC and other outlets failed to report was that some Labour MPs also sang the Red Flag song. Rees-Mogg told the conservative MPs not to re-enter the Commons after the ceremony in the Lords, although I think that was more to do with snubbing Bercow than the Labour MPs.


    I saw Ms Thornberry aka "I love White Van" on breakfast tv this morning. Piers Morgan, another pompous prat, was tearing her into peices over this and rightly so.


    The fact is and remains until/if we get a GE, is that a majority of MPs want to stay in the EU and will do anything to block it and at the moment it looks like they've succeeded.

    Thanks for that, Fidget. I knew it was a political move, but I didn't know the whole law was not a real one. I wonder then if Boris has a case to go the Supreme Court and try to get the law overturned? He might bump into his own friend John Major and Gina Miller while there.:)

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  • I think that's the idea. They want people to get so worn down with all this that they give up and surrender. It's important to be as strong and resilient as a dung beetle rolling a blob of crap up a hill in order not to succumb to their tactics.

    There, in a mauve light of drifted lupins,

    They hung in the cupped hands of mountains

    Made of tingling atoms.- Ted Hughes


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