Another day, other terrorist incident. Will it ever end?

  • As I type this, a woman has been shot by police and others arrested in suspected terrorist activity in Kent. And earlier, a man was arrested by anti terrorist police near Westminster carrying knifes.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39741196


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39736733


    It's almost coming to the point of it becoming normal, in the same way when the Irish used to bomb us.


    I can never remember a time when there's been no terrorism of one kind or another. Will terrorism always be with us, whether it be the Irish kind, the Islamist variety or some other?

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  • I think these things come to an end when people decide they are no longer going to tolerate them. After the weeping and hugging, candlelit vigils, "they won't divide us" claptrap and sly media hype, something hardens in the minds and motivations of ordinary people who have had enough and become deaf to all the parades of blame and emotion and the hot air balloons.


    When that happens, and the tipping point can be quite a small incident, the people decide, en mass, and for some reason that must be hard wired into our survival, that they are not going to take it any more. Not from their politicians, not from theocrats, ideologues, priests, ministers and social engineers. They just decide that they have had enough, the guilt trip isn't working any more and the people do that amazing thing that was so common to our distant ancestors but that has become anathema to modern ideologies of pseudo goodness and light -


    The people turn to defend themselves.


    When that day comes, you know the people are no longer asleep, brainwashed or comatose in the grip of belief.


    That is the day when acolytes become humans again.


    Beware of that day - and look forward to it because it is the first day of liberty.

  • Whatever can be said about 'the vast majority of peaceful Muslims' and I'm sure the vast majority are, these incidents will go on and on until it's realised that the religion of Islam should be discouraged, that Islamic schools have no place in this country, at least until the religion is modified and rewritten so that extremists cannot use verses in it as an excuse for killing and war.


    The trouble with Islam is that its founder used these very methods to subdue, conquer and 'convert ' to gain followers. If some of its followers today,1,400 years later, still think that is the way to go, then the religion needs to either be banned from western countries or changed drastically with a re-written Koran and hadith.

  • Personally Morgan, I would ban all religion. What good has it brought to the world?

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  • I agree that regarding this particular religion, which is only some seven hundred years' old and can be attributed to one individual whose methods were warfare and intolerance against anyone who could be classified as an "infidel", the problems in allowing this into a very different and much older sort of matrix in the Christian mould are possibly too diverse to accomplish by mere bywords of "integration" and "love".


    Add to this the enormous problem of Christian fundamental principles of forgiveness, unconditional love and inclusiveness. These will, even if just leftover aspects of a secularised belief system, cause havoc to the native and established population when attempting to deal with a warlike, rampant, aggressive and violent creed that has seemingly distilled from an older version and is now looking for an excuse to vent its inner rage.

  • Personally Morgan, I would ban all religion. What good has it brought to the world?


    Now there's a can of worms! ;) . I don't follow or practice any religion but can see the advantages of one like Christianity ( As originally taught, not as practised in the past and today by many who claim to be Christians.) which teaches peace and 'love thy neighbour.'

  • Peace is good, within reason, but love thy neighbour unconditionally is the most idiotic injunction ever delivered to hapless humanity. It is this patheticism of hippy affection that has made of the west a Garden of Eden for opportunists on one hand and the seat of the most incomprehensible bigotry on the other.


    Horizon has a point about religions but as humanity is so fond of them and will kill its neighbour over them rather than love anyone regardless of them, banning them would make them stronger. This is how Christianity got its teeth. It went underground among the underprivileged and emerged above ground in the sights of an opportunistic and enormously cunning Emperor.


    The rest is history.


    It's no use asking "when will they ever learn." They don't learn, they deliver their own heads to themselves on a plate and finally become extinct.

  • Personally Morgan, I would ban all religion. What good has it brought to the world?


    It allowed civilisation to grow in many cases, notably Christianity and Islam but it has certainly outlived its usefulness now. Luckily Christianity is pretty much gone in the UK. Islam boasts about its increase in numbers but a lot of British Muslims are playing at it or don't want to upset their family and friends by coming out as atheist. In fact many people that don't have a belief in God don't like to accept they are atheists which I always find a bit odd.

  • Where I am, almost everyone is a devout Christian. The count is now 80% professed Christian.


    It's not doing them any good though, is it LW? Less praying and more learning, more building etc would be my motto.


    It allowed civilisation to grow in many cases, notably Christianity and Islam but it has certainly outlived its usefulness now. Luckily Christianity is pretty much gone in the UK. Islam boasts about its increase in numbers but a lot of British Muslims are playing at it or don't want to upset their family and friends by coming out as atheist. In fact many people that don't have a belief in God don't like to accept they are atheists which I always find a bit odd.


    It's something I would want more information on Hoxton. If more people from a Muslim background are essentially just "playing at," that bodes well for the future.

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  • I've given up on the religion thing, H. There's no stopping them. But, where I am this religion tends to make people want to go to school, to learn, to be honest and productive citizens. It's Marxism that never did them any good. So, if they can find a crutch that makes them brave and keen to get on, then I will not be stopping them.

  • I'm going to disagree with everybody. I think religion, especially Christianity has done a lot of good in the world. How many wars have been started in the name of Christianity? Admittedly the religion has been misused and abused by people who claim to be Christians but as Dickens said, there are a good many people claiming to be out and out Christians who bear a remarkable resemblance to Bill Sikes' dog.

  • I tend to think that any good done in the world has been accomplished by people and not God. If people did not do the good things or the bad things they do, neither God nor his alter ego Satan would even be noticed, as they were not before these manifestations were brought to bear, usually violently, upon the world's people.


    One can have a code of behaviour that directs one's life, and for me, one's soul's evolution. One does not need to be obeying any sky fairies nor quivering with dread that they may be displeased. In this respect I'm much like a Cossack. You are responsible for your own expression of freedom. :cool:

  • I'm going to disagree with everybody. I think religion, especially Christianity has done a lot of good in the world. How many wars have been started in the name of Christianity? Admittedly the religion has been misused and abused by people who claim to be Christians but as Dickens said, there are a good many people claiming to be out and out Christians who bear a remarkable resemblance to Bill Sikes' dog.


    You're not really disagreeing with me although I can't go along with the idea that Christianity hasn't been used to start a few wars! Even Islam has done some good. My issue with religion is that is of no use today. Most functioning societies know what the sensible and silly bits are of old religious law and morality, we really don't need belief in some apparently non-existent being to convince us.

  • I've realised that no matter the logic of non-belief, many people insist upon belief. I have thus given up with them and they must travel the path of their choice and take the consequences. Because in today's world where many things can be explained and investigated, those who insist on a God are simply deliberately making that choice. Not out of fear, not out of ignorance, but by dint of their urge to worship something and to obey authority that comes from beyond the natural world. It's like a fire that has to put itself out by finally having nothing more with which to fuel itself.

  • I've realised that no matter the logic of non-belief, many people insist upon belief. I have thus given up with them and they must travel the path of their choice and take the consequences. Because in today's world where many things can be explained and investigated, those who insist on a God are simply deliberately making that choice. Not out of fear, not out of ignorance, but by dint of their urge to worship something and to obey authority that comes from beyond the natural world. It's like a fire that has to put itself out by finally having nothing more with which to fuel itself.


    But don't you think that belief in a deity has inspired many to do good works? I'm not saying you need a belief to do good works but for instance the Trussel Trust which operates food banks for the needy started in a church I believe. The Salvation Army also do a vast amount of good providing night shelters and food for the homeless and there are many other Christian charities.


    Whether these people could or would have provided this help without their religious beliefs which teach that people should help one another is a moot point, but I would certainly suggest they are encouraged to do so by their beliefs.

  • Oh, yes, Morgan, that is why both Christianity and Islam have charities. The believers who aren't into killing people are working to make things easier for the poor and trying to create a better and more just world.


    That can never be a bad thing. They are not doing this for humanity directly, though, they are acting in accordance with injunctions from God and they act in order to please and serve him. They often fall on their own swords to make God happy and this is dangerous in the extreme for the destiny of groups or nations that need to survive here on Earth. The trouble with religions of this kind is that they are primarily concerned not with Earth but with some fantasy realm called "Heaven", where their deity lives and from whence he pontificates, often to the destruction of millions.


    The problem arrives when beliefs like this start urging people to convert because theirs is the only way, taking authority over humanity from an ancient text that has nothing to do with anyone outside of the ancient Middle Eastern tribes who invented it and foisting the evolved political and social ideologies that grow from this upon everyone so that we can "all be one" - or else. Coupled with the fervent belief that God wants this and has somehow made it an injunction and he detests and will punish anyone who disagrees.


    Being decent to one's fellow travellers is an age old practice external to any of these religions.


    However, if people are not able to sustain a rational and intelligent compassion and instead try to "change the world" because they want it to fit in with their personal and group beliefs and ideologies, and if this is perilous to the survival of groups, identities, cultures, nations and civilizations, then one has to question whether religion is ultimately the right way to go about dealing with human misery.

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