Climate Change

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  • I particularly remember Sky News coverage of the Iraq war showing live photos of the sky alight with loads of Skud missiles heading for their targets

    Other news providers were simply providing a studio presenter saying that they understood and attack had been launched. Live pictures were so much more effective

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  • I remember that sinking feeling and that deep regret coupled with anger that I felt when I saw the Yank tanks invading. It was an illegitimate invasion grounded in a lie and they got away with it. It resulted in insurgents pouring into Iraq afterwards.

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  • I thought it was legitimate to remove someone like Hussein, and Gadhafi who both were ruthless dictators who oppressed their citizens and threatened the West. The problem was that there were no plans as to subsequent action

    I think there is now a democratically elected government in Iraq so there is some progress, it will probably be years before it is a totally free country, and Tui will be offering holidays in Baghdad

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  • I don't believe in invading countries to remove their leaders, using their ancient monuments for target practice, flushing their holy books down the pan and having their leaders dragged out and hanged in public when they did not attack anyone and had no weapons of mass destruction. It just isn't done and the fact that Blair was more than happy to do it made me detest the oily little so and so even more than I did when he went into Kosovo.

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  • This link detailing the effects of climate change on ancient Egypt in periods 3,000 to 6,000 years ago would greatly help the young people struggling to come to terms with this phenomenon today.


    There have been many disastrous and severe social and cultural effects from these and in Egypt this is thought to have led to the collapse of the Old Kingdom.


    Tilt of the earth and various atmospheric conditions, droughts, famines, migrations ... it is all there, long before the civilizations and individuals that are being blamed today.


    The important reason why many civilizations don't outlast these times is a lack of ability to adapt to them and understand them and their causes.


    If Earthlings wish to adapt to the present blip on the screen of planetary evolution, they would do well to stop being silly and infantile and crafty and terrified and look at what is happening in our time so that, instead of worrying about capitalism or the gods being angry, we might find ways of thwarting this and/or dealing with it so as to prevent the things that happened to Earthlings in their past.


    Nature is not "angry" with us. This is inane and when I saw a UN official saying so this was disappointing to say the least. Nature, as such, is insentient, living beings are sentient and only they actually suffer or have emotions. Nature is simply responding to conditions. She isn't whacking the Bahamas with terrible hurricanes because she wants to kill the people who live there. She isn't melting icebergs and glaciers because she's feeling peeved with humans. She doesn't want polar bears to die and babies to starve and children to be frightened. She doesn't "want" anything at all. She isn't a being, she is a natural process made of matter and energy responding to conditions. We like to see her as a goddess because it's part of the way we describe things metaphorically. Because we are a creative species that loves characterisation and narrative.


    I can't believe this is how these hapless young people are being taught today. What they need is reassurance that humans are intelligent enough and scientifically advanced enough today to adapt to cosmic and local events. I don't like to see hordes of angry idiots waving banners and blaming their ideological opponents for natural phenomena. It's a sign that they don't know what they are banging on about but love to find enemies behind everything that might further their agendas and create mass hysteria as fuel.


    How climate change led to the collapse of the Old Kingdom in Egypt and the mass migrations of the ancient world

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  • I don't believe in invading countries to remove their leaders, using their ancient monuments for target practice, flushing their holy books down the pan and having their leaders dragged out and hanged in public when they did not attack anyone and had no weapons of mass destruction. It just isn't done and the fact that Blair was more than happy to do it made me detest the oily little so and so even more than I did when he went into Kosovo.

    Would you just allow these tyrants and dictators to terrorise their people, and others?

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  • Would you just allow these tyrants and dictators to terrorise their people, and others?

    It's a lose-lose situation. If we interfere we become the bad guy. If we don't interfere, we are still the bad guy for allowing it. Why do you claim responsibility for what happens in those countries? We are not responsible.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • It's a lose-lose situation. If we interfere we become the bad guy. If we don't interfere, we are still the bad guy for allowing it. Why do you claim responsibility for what happens in those countries? We are not responsible.

    Sorry, I disagree

    I think we all have a duty to care for our fellow citizens, wherever they are in the world

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  • Would you just allow these tyrants and dictators to terrorise their people, and others?

    If you start deciding who is and is not the right stuff for your world you turn yourself into Globocop, you thrust your opinions and beliefs and ideology onto others who may be very different from you and you interfere invariably in conflicts that are local and historical and will not benefit from your interference if you are basically intent on "bringing democracy" to the world without cognizance of who wants it or how they tend to interpret it. Bearing in mind that even so-called democratic nations in the west have some strange ways of expressing this and are in fact becoming increasingly autocratic, litigious and plain fascist.


    Who is is going to come to their rescue? I'll tell you. No one.


    Often, hastily removing a dictator causes a power vacuum that is instantly characterised by chaos and bloodshed and then filled by something just as dictatorial. The invader saviour is then obliged to hang around and keep the peace. This can go on for decades as we all know and solutions to the problems cannot be found. Bombs go off regularly, groups of rebel fighters join up to form militia and you have the unspeakable street battles the world has seen unfold in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, Northern Ireland, Palestine, Lebanon and Cyprus to mention a few.


    It is often better to think of other ways to encourage the oppressed to remove their offensive elites. But you will always come across swathes who actually support them. Elections seldom prove to be democratic. Cheating is rife and so are violent threats and actual violence is no stranger to the western style elections held in newly "liberated" regions.


    No problem, just feed more of your own young soldiers in to "keep the peace", and hand out food parcels because by then many will be starving, their markets upset, and their communities riven by partisan factions.


    If one is invaded then of course get out the heavy artillery and blow them into next week. But if one hasn't been invaded and doesn't wish to become enmeshed in the oddball theocratic struggles of sectarian conflict or interracial or inter-ethnic battles, then it's a good idea to stay out of them.


    The tragedy of oppression remains a problem, but you can't fix it by slapping on a large band aid and hoping it holds because the minute you turn your back it will boil over again and take your little band aid with it in a river of retributive blood.


    This is something the rather pompous western style democrats need to consider. They may have their own population at heel and frightened of losing their cushy jobs or multiple holidays and juicy expense accounts, but in other places these things often do not exist and so the motivation to keep you out of their struggles is reinforced by their annoyance at your interference.


    Humanity is not "one big happy family". It is a diverse and often inexplicable collection of folk who have next to nothing in common. Wanting to be free to watch porn or take drugs or wear revealing clothing in public, live in luxurious accommodation and get feted and lauded by idiots who think giving away free stuff and taking food and benefits out of the mouths of their own people is wonderful is a sign that the ruling ideology is stark raving mad. I think it goes some way to explaining why some terrorists are from wealthy immigrant backgrounds, are high on drugs party animals and lack a cultural wrapper in which to live, have lost their intrinsic identity and suddenly get radicalised by a desire to lash out.


    These are just my opinions, of course. Others may and no doubt will, think differently. Just don't expect me to support any of the wars they institute in the name of "democracy" and don't ask for my blessing in sending young people into battle unnecessarily for the spurious gratification of a warm glow. Invariably there is more to it than that, but they don't let the nodding dogs know what that might be.

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  • So you just sit back and do nothing, good job the West that you so deem to despise did not do nothing to remove the oppressive apartheid regime in South Africa

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  • I don't despise the west, I despise idiots everywhere. I come from the western model. It's wonderful. For me. I can't foist it on someone who doesn't agree.


    One doesn't sit around doing nothing. One formulates workable policies and actions to halt the damage. They did this in the Montreal Protocol for Ozone. It can be done again, but flinging themselves about talking crap about fascists and racists and capitalists isn't going to help. Utilizing frightened children isn't going to help. Scientists despair of getting anything practical done under the circumstances.


    Only action that is going to be of some use is going to help.


    I will think more of them when they start acting instead of merely following fashionable agendas to stay in power or to get into power by making promises to future electorates that they will bring Shangri-la to all people. They just make me want to hit them with a very large flat paddle. They are insincerity personified.


    China is doing all sorts of interesting things concerning the climate change issue, but no one ever hears about these things. Too busy slagging off their political and social enemies.

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  • You don't despise the West yet you praise China! Jeez

    I think you need to venture outside of your ivory tower

    Until you do I'm afraid I will no longer play your game

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Tilt of the earth and various atmospheric conditions, droughts, famines, migrations ... it is all there, long before the civilizations and individuals that are being blamed today.

    True, but the Egyptians didn't have coal power stations or motorways full of vehicles pumping out pollutants. Humans are accelerating a natural process and if it continues, the planet may not be able to heal itself.


    The important reason why many civilizations don't outlast these times is a lack of ability to adapt to them and understand them and their causes.

    Agree and in that sense, we're much better off living in these times.


    I can't believe this is how these hapless young people are being taught today. What they need is reassurance that humans are intelligent enough and scientifically advanced enough today to adapt to cosmic and local events.

    Indeed and always, another brilliant post from you LW.8):thumbup:


    We will move beyond fossil fuels, because we are already. We will move beyond eating vast quantities of meat, or at least breeding lots of animals for food which then produces a third of all green house gases, because we are already. I hope we move beyond plastic. We can change. We can adapt.

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  • "We will move beyond fossil fuels, because we are already. We will move beyond eating vast quantities of meat, or at least breeding lots of animals for food which then produces a third of all green house gases, because we are already. I hope we move beyond plastic. We can change. We can adapt."


    I checked this out and was very surprised at the result


    "What we do know is that global meat consumption has increased rapidly over the past 50 years. Meat production today is nearly five times higher than in the early 1960s - from 70 million tonnes to more than 330 million tonnes in 2017"


    https://www.google.co.uk/searc…&uact=5#spf=1569615130524


    When you think that fifty years ago every meal was the classic meat and two veg, yet today is totally different with so much vegetarianism. I know the world population has grown but wouldn't have thought meat eating would have grown proportionately, especially with the high cost of meat

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  • I am a NorsePagan, so my environmentalism is tied inextricably to the earth as the home of my ancestors and certain folk groups as the home of my biological reality. And I don't believe in gods or magic. Modern Pagans have gone far past all that.


    If you would like to see a pithy and deeply critical view on the present shower waving climate change banners and getting themselves in the spotlight and in a knot, you may enjoy one of Michael John Greer's articles. He is a Druid. A very eloquent and insightful one.


    Here is a little taste of his article with a link to the rest.


    Quote

    They argued unconvincingly that everything would be just fine if only the nations of the world handed over control of the global economy to an unelected cadre of experts, under whom the institutions of democratic governance would be turned into powerless debating societies while the decisions that mattered would be made by corporate-bureaucratic committees conveniently sheltered from public oversight. (If this seems familiar to those of my readers who endure EU rule just now, there’s a reason for that: the state of affairs just described has been the wet dream of Europe’s privileged classes and their tame intellectuals for quite a few decades now.) That’s the usually unmentioned reason why The Limits to Growth fielded the savage resistance it did: a good many people in 1972 recognized it as a stalking horse for a political agenda.


    https://www.ecosophia.net/the-…ight-of-environmentalism/

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  • Here is an excellent presentation by Patrick Moore (not OUR Sir Patrick Moore, the astronomer) and it disproves the global warming claims with actual facts and figures (no predictions at all), just historic data that disproves everything the climate change proponents are claiming.


    There is a bit of waffle at the beginning to explain who Patrick Moore is, but the real presentation starts at 2 mins in. Well worth a watch.


    Patrick Moore – The Sensible Environmentalist

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Yes, terrific vid :thumbup: and I agree.


    I wrote a reply based on this from my perspective as someone from the same time as Moore but my piece was longer than the allowable 10,000 characters. I tried but couldn't manage to shorten it so dumped it.


    However, I admire him for still having some time for humanity as I have lost all feeling for it and only base my admiration and affection on certain excellent individuals. I can say "I love horses" but I cannot with any honesty say "I love humans".


    I hope these brave individuals who have been forced out of the original Green movements by social engineers and political optimists will prevail. And I hope they will be able to give hope and security to some of the young people who are being frightened every day by the media and the interested (and invested) parties and told that their world is about to end and that millions are dying because cows are farting.

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  • Pretty much all historical data shows the climate alarmists are wrong. Very wrong. Here's how the climate alarmists manipulate the actual data:


    My Gift To Climate Alarmists

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Piers Morgan tears these people to bits on GMB when they admit that they will not give up on their lifestyle and equipment, things they expect the rest of us to do

    I wonder if they are going to try and disrupt the Queen today?

    Are they just old fashioned anarchists in disguise?

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  • Piers Morgan tears these people to bits on GMB when they admit that they will not give up on their lifestyle and equipment, things they expect the rest of us to do

    I wonder if they are going to try and disrupt the Queen today?

    Are they just old fashioned anarchists in disguise?

    Whilst these green people get right on my tits, Piers Morgan is wrong. These Greeny people are not trying to tell people they can't fly or drive their cars. They want electric cars and more fuel efficient aircraft, so we can carry on what we are doing. Of course, they are a bunch of dick heads, and don't actually appreciate their proposals would not make a great deal of difference. We are a small and relatively clean country and the emissions we throw out on a global scale are pretty insignificant. If they really believe what they are saying, they should go and demonstrate in countries such as China, Russia, and the US. On another point, the building and disposal of batteries for cars is potentially as bad for the planet as the internal combustion engine, but they are to stupid to realise it.

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  • On another point, the building and disposal of batteries for cars is potentially as bad for the planet as the internal combustion engine, but they are to stupid to realise it.

    Indeed. The Hydrogen fuel cell is a much more benign technology and refuelling can be almost as quick as with petrol or diesel.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • Whilst these green people get right on my tits, Piers Morgan is wrong. These Greeny people are not trying to tell people they can't fly or drive their cars. They want electric cars and more fuel efficient aircraft, so we can carry on what we are doing. Of course, they are a bunch of dick heads, and don't actually appreciate their proposals would not make a great deal of difference. We are a small and relatively clean country and the emissions we throw out on a global scale are pretty insignificant. If they really believe what they are saying, they should go and demonstrate in countries such as China, Russia, and the US. On another point, the building and disposal of batteries for cars is potentially as bad for the planet as the internal combustion engine, but they are to stupid to realise it.

    So why do they disrupt so many lives in London for example, lives of people trying to get to work and so on

    It's a bit hypocritical of these protesters not to practice what they preach

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  • So why do they disrupt so many lives in London for example, lives of people trying to get to work and so on

    It's a bit hypocritical of these protesters not to practice what they preach

    I am not defending them, I am defending their cause. The way they are going about their business is just stupid. At present everyone has the right to demonstrate, but perhaps these laws need to be tailored so they don't disrupt other peoples lives.

    Don't make me angry

  • Indeed. The Hydrogen fuel cell is a much more benign technology and refuelling can be almost as quick as with petrol or diesel.

    I bought £1200 pounds worth of shares in a German company that produces energy through hydro energy. Those shares are now worth £60, so I wonder how seriously governments are taking the problem?

    Don't make me angry

  • I never buy shares in anything, I like to look after my money not rely on somebody else

    My immediate neighbour rushed to buy shares in the Post Office when it was privatised, them moaned like hell when they shut our local branch

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