Margaret Thatcher: Saint Or Sinner?

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  • She was the most powerful prime minister of this country since Winston Churchill, yet no politician has evoked stronger emotions than Margaret Thatcher.


    Did she save us from the unions, including mountains of uncollected rubbish? Or, did she destroy the heartland (The North) of what was once the most industrial and powerful country in the world?

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  • I was in labour when the news broke that Margaret Thatcher had died. Somebody came into the delivery room and mentioned it. I wasn't aware of that at the time. I was pushing, screaming the place down and, I think squeezing my wife's hand to a pulp and at one point trying to gnaw her arm through to the bone.


    It wasn't until I was being wheeled out, holding my little bundle, that I first heard a couple of nurses in the corridor singing "Ding dong the wicked witch is dead."


    Not very nice, but you can't blame them.

  • The only things she done which was any good was to bring female power to the top of politics and bring the country a sense of pride with the Falklands war. Other than that she was the beginning of the huge downfall of this country especially with the privatisation of everything. She was a powerful beast of a woman but an awful arrogant obstinate (I almost used the c word then), not a word I use lightly. She then shot herself in the foot with the poll tax which was step too far. But I hate Blair more. I want him hung for war crimes preferably with being able to see the look on his wife and kids faces.

  • She was what the UK needed at the time but produced a culture of greed to the detriment of society

    I used to correspond with her, her herself rather than an aide. My daughter went for interview at Exeter university which went well until they asked her who she most admired, politician or someone famous. She immediately replied "Margaret Thatcher"

    She knew instantly that she had blow the interview, as she put it the temperature from the panel dropped instantly. She was refused a place

    So I wrote to Mrs T to tell her the story which obviously interested her, hence our correspondence. She would often write and ask my views on some policies, not that it seemed that she took any notice of my views

    She did write and asked if I had noted that Exeter Uni had a new Vice Chancellor!

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • I know some on here think I am a liar but I lived directly opposite Thatchers old grocery shop, literally across the road. Mr Roberts. I despised Margaret Thatcher, as an old Labour clause 4 activist and Trade Union executive member. They dare not erect a statue for Thatcher in Grantham because they know it would be destroyed, so they have a small bust if her in Grantham Museum.

    However, with hindsight, I value her leadership qualities. ANYONE can be in the position of head of a group or party but LEADERSHIP skills are hard to teach, you either have this trait or not and she was a leader. You can totally oppose the policies but acknowledge the leadership ability.

    The reason Corbyn was wiped out is because he has no leadership ability. The reason TRUMP won is because he does have leadership skills. Swinson was destroyed.. she was head of Lib Dums but not a leader. Same with Miliband. Paddy Ashdown, did not have a clue.

    Thatcher made decisions, you can move on when decisions are made. If you sit on the fence you are neither one side or the other.

    Boris said... "BREXIT WILL HAPPEN". Corbyn said.. "Brexit err, might err probably may perhaps I will remain and leave"!! SWinson totally rebuked democracy, full in our faces... ??

    Thatcher said, up front before her election.. "I will deal with the abuse of power by the trade unions"! I did not agree with her at the time but she said it clearly and the people voted. I respected that. Just as I would have respected the EU vote if REMAIN had won. Unlike the remoaners who were contemptuous.

    Thatcher was necessary, she had vision and the leadership skills to do it.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • I'm surprised you say that Paddy Ashdown had no leadership abilities.


    He was a Captain in the Royal Marines and then joined the Special Boat Squadron (the Marines equivalent of the SAS). That would suggest to me that he must have had extensive leadership training.


    The military often say that leadership is something that can be learned. Some learn the skills better than others, but it CAN be learned. Paddy Ashdown's biography said he had been assessed by the Royal Marines as having very strong leadership skills.


    Leadership is a transferable skill. The basic principles required to lead a group of men in combat are the same as those required to lead a political party. Organisation, adaptability, utilisation of team skills, the ability to plan, execute a task and above all COMMUNICATE what is required to your team are basically the same in any scenario.


    Margaret Thatcher, in my opinion, was not a leader, she was an autocratic dictator, as is Donald Trump. Those two people (and that group now includes Boris Johnson) don't lead, they ruthlessly destroy opposition any means, fair or foul. And mostly foul. They acquire control by fear and dominant personality rather by respect and willing co-operation.


    They are the sort of people who should be excluded from having power because all they covet is the power itself, for its own sake, not out of any desire to be of benefit to anybody. For them it is all about self, self, self.


    Leadership is the ability to get people to work for you willingly and enthusiastically, accepting your command by virtue of the skills mentioned in my fourth paragraph. I think Paddy Ashdown must have had that. Or the Royal Marines are poor judges of officer and SBS material. You choose.

  • I know all about him. I was obviously referring to leading political parties to success. Military leadership is in total contrast with being a politician.. Probably why he was not PM.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Thatcher had to do what was needed. Britain was "The sick man of Europe" Old subsidised nationalised heavy industries were bleeding the tax payers dry. I remember that British Steel was costing £3m a day!


    The economy needed to be restructured and a strong leader was needed to face down the unions that had flourished under Callaghan's Labour administration of the late '70's.


    Thatcher gave that leadership and the eventual result was a much lighter but more efficient economy.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • Not very nice, but you can't blame them.

    All depends what their issue with her was. In many cases, I believe the real issue for many was that she was a woman and that a woman (other than themselves) could be in such a powerful job.

    She then shot herself in the foot with the poll tax which was step too far

    That wasn't her idea and had massive reservations against it.


    She was what the UK needed at the time but produced a culture of greed to the detriment of society

    I think culture was coming regardless of Thatcher.

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    Edited once, last by Horizon: Merged a post created by Horizon into this post. ().

  • Thatcher said, up front before her election.. "I will deal with the abuse of power by the trade unions"! I did not agree with her at the time but she said it clearly and the people voted. I respected that. Just as I would have respected the EU vote if REMAIN had won. Unlike the remoaners who were contemptuous.

    Thatcher was necessary, she had vision and the leadership skills to do it.

    Same as today. Boris had a clear message and it was one the electorate liked. The lesson being that if you give the majority of people what they want, they will vote for you.


    Margaret Thatcher, in my opinion, was not a leader, she was an autocratic dictator, as is Donald Trump.

    I'm no Trump fan, but I did originally like Thatcher. In fact my interest in politics started around the time of her downfall and I will never forget that Geoffrey Howe speech against her. Once colleagues like that turn against you, your time is up.


    Thatcher had to do what was needed. Britain was "The sick man of Europe" Old subsidised nationalised heavy industries were bleeding the tax payers dry. I remember that British Steel was costing £3m a day!


    The economy needed to be restructured and a strong leader was needed to face down the unions that had flourished under Callaghan's Labour administration of the late '70's.


    Thatcher gave that leadership and the eventual result was a much lighter but more efficient economy.

    Fully agree with all that Heero, but it did come at a cost, mainly felt in the north. Will be interested to see if Boris and Dominic Cummings seek to readdress that balance between the rich south and poorer north.

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    Edited 2 times, last by Horizon: Merged a post created by Horizon into this post. ().

  • Interesting when you consider what a role model for women she was how women and the feminists hated her

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • I know all about him. I was obviously referring to leading political parties to success. Military leadership is in total contrast with being a politician.. Probably why he was not PM.

    Paddy Ashdown took the LibDems from relative obscurity to become a major force in the UK political scene

    Trouble was when it was revealed he had an affair and was labelled "Pantsdown"

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Really.... Losing 189 seats.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Find it yourself. It comes under Paddy Ashdown.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Christ... Not another patronising school maam. Spare the lectures just have a discussion.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Find it yourself. It comes under Paddy Ashdown.

    i guessed that providing a link would show that your "losing 189 seats was a load of nonsense

    Here for your information is the truth, you see some of us lived through this period


    "Ashdown led the Liberal Democrats into two general elections, in 1992 and 1997, and three European Parliament elections, in 1989, 1994 and 1999. The Lib Dems failed to win any seats in the 1989 European Parliament election and recorded a net loss of two seats in the 1992 general election, when the party was still recovering from the after-effects of the 1988 merger. In 1994, the party gained its first two Members of European Parliament.[29] At the 1997 election, the Liberal Democrats won 46 seats, their best performance since the 1920s, though they did take a smaller share of the vote than they had done at the 1992 election.[30] While the Liberal Democrats vote share decreased in the 1999 European Parliament election, the move from first-past-the-post to the D'Hondt method saw the party make a net gain of 8 seats.[31]

    Between 1993 and 1997, he was a notable proponent of co-operation between the Liberal Democrats and "New Labour", and had regular secret meetings with Tony Blair to discuss the possibility of a coalition government. This was despite Labour's opinion poll showings from late 1992 onwards virtually all suggesting that they would gain a majority at the next election, particularly in the first year or so of Blair's leadership following his appointment in mid-1994. The discussions began in early 1993, while the party was still being led by Blair's predecessor John Smith, who died suddenly in May 1994. After Blair was elected as Labour leader the talks continued.[32]

    There was no need for a coalition, as the 1997 general election ended in a Labour landslide victory. The election also saw a breakthrough for the Liberal Democrats despite receiving fewer votes than in 1992; they increased their representation from 18 to 46. A "Joint Cabinet Committee" (JCC) including senior Labour and Liberal Democrat politicians was then created to discuss the implementation of the two parties' shared priorities for constitutional reform; its remit was later expanded to include other issues on which Blair and Ashdown saw scope for co-operation between the two parties. Ashdown's successor as Liberal Democrat leader, Charles Kennedy, deliberately allowed the JCC to slip into abeyance until it effectively stopped meeting.[33]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Ashdown

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Not interested. I have shown the facts. Carry on..

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Christ... Not another patronising school maam. Spare the lectures just have a discussion.

    You get the response you deserve. You're a coward running away from the discussion with childish retorts.


    I'll lecture you relentlessly. You either pick up the baton and run with it or you chicken out and put up infantile responses like this because you have nothing else to offer.


    I don't think you've got it in you. Prove me wrong.

  • Not interested. I have shown the facts. Carry on..

    You've shown nothing. You're all hot air, you windbag.


    Bryanluc has got you whipped like a dog. He's a better man than you, with a stronger argument and a better grip of the facts. You've got nothing but bluster.

  • I know all about him. I was obviously referring to leading political parties to success. Military leadership is in total contrast with being a politician.. Probably why he was not PM.

    Leadership is a transferable skill.


    https://www.wikijob.co.uk/cont…ncies/transferable-skills


    You didn't read the post did you..?


    Would you like me to draw you a picture next time..? I'll willingly do that in crayon if that will help you to grasp a simple concept that most people would get on the first occasion of having it demonstrated to them (see post #6 of this thread).

  • Fluster and bluff. you seem a tad butt-hurt. Calm down woman. Your blood pressure will overwhelm you.

    Are you sure you are not Casablancas sister? or even brother. Calm down gal.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Fluster and bluff. you seem a tad butt-hurt. Calm down woman. Your blood pressure will overwhelm you.

    Are you sure you are not Casablancas sister? or even brother. Calm down gal.

    Butt hurt..? The only person who gets his arse kicked on here is you.


    What is your obsession with bottoms...? I know plenty of places you can go where you'd get all the attention you want. I'll mail you a list and you can take your pick.

  • Butt hurt..? The only person who gets his arse kicked on here is you.


    What is your obsession with bottoms...? I know plenty of places you can go where you'd get all the attention you want. I'll mail you a list and you can take your pick.

    LOL.... Then you will know.. I never seek approval, such is my self confidence in my integrity.

    As a Lesbian type.. you will have first hand experience in the nether regions.

    I am but mad north north west.. But when the wind is southerly I know a Hawke from a Handsaw.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.