Is being fat okay, or is society too tolerant now?

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  • A Toronto orchestra has shut down after "fat-shaming" volunteer singers who wore body-hugging dresses.

    The Sheraton Cadwell Orchestras asked women who were not "fit & slim" to use loose dresses that hide their "dietary indulgences".

    Many singers who had performed with the symphony expressed disgust at the email.

    The management has since apologised and resigned, telling singers the orchestra would no longer be funded.

    This recent story from Canada highlights quite a modern problem, in that there are more and more fat people around today including fat people in the public eye.


    There are always stories about fatties and airplane seats, but this story is quite different. The volunteer Canadian singer was told her services were no longer required because she basically didn't look good enough on stage. No one argues that she couldn't sing.


    Fifty years ago, there were almost no fat people around and now a majority of adults are fat in some way, me included. But has the pendulum swung too far in being tolerating of behaviour which was once considered unacceptable.


    There are now clothes stores that cater specifically for the fat selling all manner of extra large sized clothing. Huge oversized coffins are made for the severely obese which leads me to the question, being fat is not healthy, are we being too tolerant in society to being fat, or is it purely an individual's own choice and no business of anyone else?

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    Edited once, last by Horizon: Changed news quote into WoltLab style - Aug 2019 ().

  • I'm not fat. So I'm speaking from the other side of obesity. I have no "side" to stick up for or to defend.


    In my opinion, fat people have every right to be as fat as they like and thin people have every right to be as thin as they like. People have the right to eat whatever they like and can afford and society has no right to mimic the State in fascist communities and start telling everyone what to do. And no right to punish people for who they are.


    When I was young there were a few fat kinds in every school. They were not happy kids and most wished they were thinner. We never bullied them. Many fat people eat too much because food is a comfort source and eating a comfort activity that stand in for something else related to their past, their present or their actual physiology. Very thin people often starve themselves in order to become the living image of something else that is psychological and related to their past. Bulimia in many cases is thought to be related to obsessive compulsive behaviour and could be physiological in origin and so isn't seen as a purely psychological disorder any more. Self harming is also related to this sort of thing. Both can be brought out by psychological stressors in the environment.


    Society is becoming vicious in its pursuit of youth and beauty. Society is pandering to some things on one hand and attacking things on the other. It tolerates all manner of ridiculous political and social issues but is vicious about the sort of shoes someone chooses to wear or their type of clothing, or body shape. Society is, largely, going off its collective head. The English novelist, D.H. Lawrence, in Lady Chatterley's Lover, claimed through the words of a gamekeeper that "society is a partially insane beast". I agree wholeheartedly but would add that in time society has become an almost completely insane beast and that social media and the media in general, plus a population of greedy, over wealthy, lazy, useless, semi-literate humans have put the lid on this and become the voice of the establishment.


    If someone feels accepted and appreciated for who they are, or if someone is led to believe that someone else thinks they have the ability to change and that they are more than they appear to be and isn't going to judge them but rather would encourage them in anything they might want to do, then people with problems would have more courage to try and solve them. If they can't, then no one has the right to degrade them or ridicule them.


    When society stops being such a collective bitch, perhaps society will become a pleasant place to be. Until then, I would advise anyone with any kind of a problem to avoid allowing what certain shrill, contemptuous morons happen to think to have no effect on what anyone with a problem to solve might want to do about this.


    There are others in the world who will support you. You don't need to get upset about the opinions of a slick, rich, stupid, myopic bunch of selfie shooters. You're better than that. :thumbup:

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • It wasn't that long ago there were vastly over weight women walking around in tight black leggings, a fashion wish now seems to have passed thank God.


    I can understand people being fat because some seem to be naturally so. I'm a bit overweight myself, but what I can't understand is why people allow themselves to get so fat it interferes with the comforts and abilities of every day life. I wouldn't want to be so fat I get out of breath bending down, can't get out of a chair or bed without puffing and gasping, can't get into a car comfortably and without it sinking down to the axles.


    When our American contingent come over, I refuse to carry the three of them in my car at the same time because they are so fat, and I've got a 7 seat MPV!


    Lack of fitness and mobility comes soon enough with advancing age so it's a bit foolish to impose it on oneself early by overeating and not getting at least some exercise.

  • It wasn't that long ago there were vastly over weight women walking around in tight black leggings, a fashion wish now seems to have passed thank God.

    Have you been to Essex recently?8o

    I can understand people being fat because some seem to be naturally so.

    I think some people, given certain conditions, have the potential to be fat. I had a few school friends who would eat what they wanted and never put on any weight. However if you look at pictures from people of say after WW2, there were no fat people around at all.

    I'm a bit overweight myself, but what I can't understand is why people allow themselves to get so fat it interferes with the comforts and abilities of every day life. I wouldn't want to be so fat I get out of breath bending down, can't get out of a chair or bed without puffing and gasping, can't get into a car comfortably and without it sinking down to the axles.

    Tiny little bit podgy at school, but only slightly, but the problems came later for me.


    Don't get out of breath or anything bending down, but as I've just had a blood clot, that's a warning to me to sort myself out.

    When our American contingent come over, I refuse to carry the three of them in my car at the same time because they are so fat, and I've got a 7 seat MPV!

    When I've visited the States, I always felt thin. Their food portions are ridiculously large.

    Lack of fitness and mobility comes soon enough with advancing age so it's a bit foolish to impose it on oneself early by overeating and not getting at least some exercise.

    True. Very good point.

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  • I'm not fat. So I'm speaking from the other side of obesity. I have no "side" to stick up for or to defend.

    Excellent post, LW. I'm come back to this later today.

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  • Couldn't resist:


    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • I see you've got your Mel and Griff vids lined up, Heero.:)


    Of course it should be noted that Mel Smith died at 60 from a heart attack, although he had several health issues.

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  • I'm not fat. So I'm speaking from the other side of obesity. I have no "side" to stick up for or to defend.


    In my opinion, fat people have every right to be as fat as they like and thin people have every right to be as thin as they like. People have the right to eat whatever they like and can afford and society has no right to mimic the State in fascist communities and start telling everyone what to do. And no right to punish people for who they are.

    I agree LW, but does that right also include the right for others to pay for their dietary excesses' if they use a higher amount of medical resources, as the obvious example?


    People have rights, but also responsibility for themselves and not to be a burden on others.


    I wouldn't use the word punishment, but how far does tolerance go?


    I was recently in a certain hospital ward and the people in there are explicitly told to keep stick to a strict diet. One of the patients had a bag of snacks by his bed, then his wife brought him in a Burger King triple cheeseburger. Everyone in that ward had just had operations on their hearts...

    When I was young there were a few fat kinds in every school. They were not happy kids and most wished they were thinner. We never bullied them. Many fat people eat too much because food is a comfort source and eating a comfort activity that stand in for something else related to their past, their present or their actual physiology. Very thin people often starve themselves in order to become the living image of something else that is psychological and related to their past. Bulimia in many cases is thought to be related to obsessive compulsive behaviour and could be physiological in origin and so isn't seen as a purely psychological disorder any more. Self harming is also related to this sort of thing. Both can be brought out by psychological stressors in the environment.

    There were not really any fat kids when I was at school. I was podgy, as were some others, but none were fat or obese. The problem as got far, far worse now with younger people, but also older people too.

    Society is becoming vicious in its pursuit of youth and beauty. Society is pandering to some things on one hand and attacking things on the other. It tolerates all manner of ridiculous political and social issues but is vicious about the sort of shoes someone chooses to wear or their type of clothing, or body shape. Society is, largely, going off its collective head. The English novelist, D.H. Lawrence, in Lady Chatterley's Lover, claimed through the words of a gamekeeper that "society is a partially insane beast". I agree wholeheartedly but would add that in time society has become an almost completely insane beast and that social media and the media in general, plus a population of greedy, over wealthy, lazy, useless, semi-literate humans have put the lid on this and become the voice of the establishment.

    This Canadian singer volunteered her time, but was in effect sacked because the bosses wanted to see a thinner person. Perhaps they should have paid for their specific requirements, if that's what they wanted.

    When society stops being such a collective bitch, perhaps society will become a pleasant place to be. Until then, I would advise anyone with any kind of a problem to avoid allowing what certain shrill, contemptuous morons happen to think to have no effect on what anyone with a problem to solve might want to do about this.

    We do live in very bitchy, "lets take a sellfie" times, I agree.

    If someone feels accepted and appreciated for who they are, or if someone is led to believe that someone else thinks they have the ability to change and that they are more than they appear to be and isn't going to judge them but rather would encourage them in anything they might want to do, then people with problems would have more courage to try and solve them. If they can't, then no one has the right to degrade them or ridicule them.

    Agree. Less judgement and a little more assistance.

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  • I agree about the financing issues. But this is only for countries who have the kind of national health and socialist structures you and certain other countries have. These depend on tax payer's contributions so everything you do will impact on the services you have.


    This is wonderful up to a point, but it does have an effect on how far the state can go to tell you what to do and the state in most socialist countries is a nasty fascist dictator who wears velvet gloves and a painted smile.


    I suppose you cannot have things both ways because the poor need help. The thing is overpopulation and the insidious development of a dependency culture will eventually create a state controlled prison from which no ordinary human can escape.


    It's why when voting time comes round, no matter what many might think, they will vote for their services, no matter who is going to provide them. So one group of political parties can always use this stick and this threat to beat and frighten not only their own opposition but the entire community that is dependent on the state.


    :(

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • I see you've got your Mel and Griff vids lined up, Heero.

    I was a great fan of the show and this one just popped into my head.


    I don't like the state "nannying" the population but when obesity is at such a level that precious NHS resources are being cunsumed by people not looking after themselves properly. Of course this could be said about smoking, drug taking or excessive alcohol consumption or any number of unhealthy activities though with these I think something of the message has got through and some are in decline.


    With food and the current trend of supersizing portions people are unaware of just how many extra calories they are stacking in each day, that combined with a sedentory lifestyle means the pounds just pile on.


    It's interesting to note that in the fifties people actually ate on average about 100 calories more each day than we do at the moment but they exercised much more as a simple function of getting to work, taking kids to school or going shopping. Most didn't have cars so either cycled or walked much more.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

    If my post is in this colour  it is moderation. Take note.

  • I don't like the state "nannying" the population but when obesity is at such a level that precious NHS resources are being cunsumed by people not looking after themselves properly. Of course this could be said about smoking, drug taking or excessive alcohol consumption or any number of unhealthy activities though with these I think something of the message has got through and some are in decline.

    If I had been discussing politics on forums ten years ago, you would have seen me make posts like the state should stay out of everything, especially a subject like this. Today, I'm not so sure. If people can't change themselves, then what will?


    True about the alcohol, smoking etc. But the government has intervened more on these issues, especially smoking, now it needs to do the same with food.

    With food and the current trend of supersizing portions people are unaware of just how many extra calories they are stacking in each day, that combined with a sedentory lifestyle means the pounds just pile on.

    Yes, this supersizing is another trend from the States. Perhaps one way to tackle the problem is to stop the large portions, the large coffees etc.


    Although people may not count the actual calories, they must have some idea what they're stuffing their faces with, the lack of exercise is certainly magnified the problem along with all the bad foods.

    It's interesting to note that in the fifties people actually ate on average about 100 calories more each day than we do at the moment but they exercised much more as a simple function of getting to work, taking kids to school or going shopping. Most didn't have cars so either cycled or walked much more.

    Full fat butter. Full Fat milk, or worse the extra creamy milk from Jersey, toast with dripping on it etc. They're diets were appalling, but most people didn't have cars in the 50s, or TVs, certainly weren't computers or Ipads around, so they did exercise which counterbalanced their poor diets. That said, they didn't snack either. Another major factor.

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