Kurds to vote on independence. Will this trigger a massive war?

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  • The Iraqi Kurdish parliament has voted to back an independence referendum in the face of opposition from across the globe.


    The Kurdistan Regional Government, sitting for the first time in two years, backed the 25 September vote on Friday.

    Iraq's central government rejected the referendum as unconstitutional on Tuesday.

    Iran, Turkey and the US also object to the vote, fearing further instability.

    Britain's history with the Kurds has not been good with the Kurds. 100 years ago, Britain attacked them as it wanted to appease others as it had grater concerns to deal with like fighting world wars, but will Britain's attitudes towards the Kurds be any different today?


    If this vote happens and the Iraqi Kurds vote for independence, this could be the trigger for the biggest war ever seen in the Middle East, not just bringing in all regional countries but Western countries and Russia too and on opposite sides.


    The Sykes-Picot agreement is dead. ISIS have already removed the borders of Iraq and Syria, in effect ending those countries in their present form, but what next?


    If the Iraqi Kurds get independence, they won't stop with that. They'll want to link their Iraqi territories with their hard won territories in Syria. If that doesn't provoke a response from Turkey's Erdogan, then, trying to link these territories into the Kurdish dominated areas in Turkey, will. Then there's the Kurdish areas in Iran to boot. It has all the ingredients for one massive war.


    Should the West, in particular Britain, support Kurdish independence, or should we repeat history and appease others for the "greater good?" What would our response be if the Iraqi government attacks the Kurds? What would our response be if Turkey launches a massive attack on them, Turkey of course being a NATO member? Do we keep supporting Turkey headed by an Islamist leader or support the Kurds and drive Turkey into Putin's warm embrace?


    Perhaps we should just stay out of it all. What do you think?

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  • Masoud Barzani, president of Iraqi Kurdistan, was last night defiant over his decision to hold a controversial referendum on independence, even as its neighbour Iran mounted pressure by closing its airspace and launching military drills on the border.


    Tehran announced on Sunday it was blocking all flights to and from Kurdistan at the request of ally Iraq, which has described the secession vote as “unconstitutional” and warned that it could fan the flames of tensions in the Middle East.


    Some five million Kurds will go to the polls today in the three provinces that have since 2003 formed the autonomous region of Kurdistan, but also in territories disputed with Baghdad such as the oil-rich province of Kirkuk.

    Kurds are now voting and the result is obvious.


    Despite all the bloodshed in the Middle East to date, this could be the thing that sets the whole region on fire.

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  • I'm with the Kurds for independence.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • So am I, LW, but this is going to draw a lot of players into this on opposing sides.


    The Iranians are getting itchy, as that article states, and who do the western powers support if the Kurds and Iraq start fighting each other? The Iraqi government is still western backed and equipped.

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  • The Turks won't like this at all. They're completely against a separate Kurdistan on their borders.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • It's what I was saying in the OP, Heero, everyone is against it. It has all the hallmarks for a total disaster and ISIS has already laid the foundation by obliterating the Syrian and Iraqi borders.

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  • We (the UK) have gotton involved in too many disputes in the middle East. I say leave this alone for the local players to sort out.


    In one way a separate Kurdistan would solve a lot of issues but the transfer of lands to a separate sovereign state would be an anathema to the surrounding states.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • I've neglected to update this thread. Some updates:


    Almost 93 per cent of those who took part in the referendum on support for Kurdish independence from Iraq have voted to split from Baghdad, officials have said.

    An Iraqi court has ordered the arrest of members of the Kurdistan Regional Government who organised a referendum on the region's independence last month, according to reports.

    Those stories were from a couple of weeks ago. The Kurds voted for independence and as expected, reactions are happening...


    The Iraqi army has launched an operation to retake control of the city of Kirkuk, which is held by Kurdish forces, according to reports. It came as tensions are soaring in the country following an independence referendum held by the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) in September.

    Turkish soldiers and armoured vehicles have crossed into Syria as part of an operation Ankara says is aimed at stopping fighting in Idlib province.

    A military statement said the forces would set up observation posts to help monitor a "de-escalation zone" in line with an agreement with Russia and Iran.

    Idlib is largely controlled by Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), a jihadist alliance linked to al-Qaeda.

    It also borders the Kurdish enclave of Afrin, which Turkey wants to contain.

    Iraqi forces are heading towards conflict with the Kurds, the Turks have placed forces nearby, the Iranians are moving their milita to the area, this is a powder keg waiting to explode.


    We, along with the Americans, created the current Iraqi regime, what do we do now if Iraqi forces attack the Kurds using weapons we supplied to them? What happens if the Turks reenter the Kurdish parts of Iraq and attack the Kurds? The Turks being a NATO allie, of course. The Russians are still in Syria. America firepower all over the place. This could get nasty.

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  • Wanting your independence is invariably not tolerated. As you know.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • Kurdish leaders have refused Iraqi government demands to reject the result of an independence referendum ahead of talks on the future of Iraqi Kurdistan.


    They met Iraqi President Fuad Masum on Sunday in a bid to reduce spiralling tensions following the vote, which the central government called illegal.

    Is there anywhere in the world not in a state of chaos at the moment?


    As far as Britain and the western countries go, we have the continuing problem of North Korea, now possible civil war in Spain and finally the issue of a separate Kurdish state that could lead to NATO allies being on opposing sides in a war that could involve all of the middle eastern countries and Russia too.


    I wonder if Antartica is peaceful at this time of the year...?

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  • A lot of tension because people who want their freedom are being denied this. It's breaking out all over the world and you'd think the rampant imperialists would take note and draw in their claws. They won't be able to succeed with their nasty global State. Nature is taking its course and splits are a way of preserving what oppression destroys.


    But once in power and on the road to control, some political powers don't see the trip wires. And even if they do, they foolishly think that you can control all of the people all of the time. You can't.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • Clashes have been reported between Iraqi and Kurdish forces after Baghdad sent troops towards disputed areas held by the Kurds in Kirkuk province.


    State TV said government forces had taken control of some areas, including oil fields, "without fighting". But Kurdish officials denied this.

    So, its started.


    Yesterday they were allies fighting the evil of ISIS, now they're fighting each other. This whole region is a mess, but I think after the blood has been spilled and the maps redrawn as a result, there is the possibility of peace and stability in the future. Just not now.

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  • The Kurds have been shafted. They have done their bit to fight IS and they have rights to an oil field. Disgraceful the way Iraq and Iran carry on.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • Whenever a map is withdrawn, it's usually done in a lot of blood.


    As I was saying in my OP, the British Empire were the ones who last did all the map drawing and the Kurds were left out then, in fact they were almost bombed into oblivion. Sins of the fathers and all that...


    Just wait until Turkey, Iran, the Arab nations, Russia and the West all square off against each other, it will make the conflict in Syria and the fight against ISIS, piddly in comparison.


    This time round, the Kurds will fight whoever goes against them.

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  • I don't blame the Kurds, but I hope the western powers will use their brains and not go into a war over this.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • If they did, whom would be fighting whom?

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  • Russia might prove to be a problem and a war with them would be insane as well as unnecessary.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • ERBIL, Kurdistan Region – British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson telephoned Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi on Thursday. The two leaders discussed the situation in Kirkuk with Abadi saying the Iraqi government is trying to stabilize liberated areas.


    The Iraqi statement summarized that Johnson had said "the British government hails the Iraqi central government stance."

    This is very disappointing.


    Looks like the Kurds, who have done most of the fighting against ISIS, will get no assistance from Britain in the face of Iraqi hostilities towards them, in fact quite the opposite. Most of the weapons used against the Kurds by the Iraqi army are supplied by the Americans or us.

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  • I think the time has come for a revision on the part of the biggies concerning the needs and desires of smaller groups. These have been angry about being lumped together with larger imperial structures for many centuries. Much blood has been spilled over this and much rage has simmered beneath the thin skin of imaginary unity.


    I know this flies in the face of the one worlders, but I feel that if someone doesn't make a move to acknowledge the claims and rights of nations, then the future will be characterised by constant conflict.


    A possible solution to getting noticed and taken seriously might be for these disparate groups to form an alliance and demand attention. They all have more in common with one another in this regard than they do with the collectives of corporate and theocratic slave hordes.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • I think the time has come for a revision on the part of the biggies concerning the needs and desires of smaller groups. These have been angry about being lumped together with larger imperial structures for many centuries. Much blood has been spilled over this and much rage has simmered beneath the thin skin of imaginary unity.

    Fully agree. Iraq being a creation of the British Empire, but at the point of its creation, it was administered as three distinct regions. There are still three major groups today and the Kurds after centuries of repression, have decided, and I agree with them, that they would like to run their own affairs.


    I am disgusted that the British government is not acknowledging this and siding with the Iraqi (Iranian controlled) government.

    I know this flies in the face of the one worlders, but I feel that if someone doesn't make a move to acknowledge the claims and rights of nations, then the future will be characterised by constant conflict

    The Germans don't always get things right....but with the signing of The Westphalia agreements, I reckon they were spot on.


    Fences make good neighbours. Independent nation states sitting and working alongside each other make good partners, it's when you try and mix everyone in together in a big pot, the problems start.

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