'Thanks for the war, now pay up' says Juncker.

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  • Quote

    Speaking a day after the Brexit talks were described as “deadlocked” by the EU’s chief negotiator, Jean-Claude Juncker accused the UK being unwilling to compromise over the divorce bill.

    Juncker insisted the British “have to pay” if they want talks to begin on a future trade deal between the UK and the EU.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.u…_59e0a587e4b03a7be57fd9c6

    Dear Mr.Juncker,


    The war cost Britain about £120 billion in 1945. In today's money that equates to about £4,200 billion. A considerable amount of this sum was spent initially trying to defend you and other now EU countries from the Germans which you failed to do yourselves. A further sum was spent freeing present EU countries from German occupation, again which you failed to do your yourselves.


    Could you please let us have your proposals as to what you think is your and the other EU countries fair share of these costs? As an initial figure, we would put it at no less than £750 billion.

    Please inform us as to how and when you intend to repay this amount as soon as possible.


    Best Wishes from the UK. :)

  • And yet the other EU countries are choosing to be dominated by the Germans this time around. Quite bizarre.

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  • Yeah, Germany has managed to conquer Europe without having to resort to a war this time around.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • EU seems to be only interested in money due , ala divorce? Bill! , it seems our share of assets and past debts are not important .

  • They will take our share of assets into account Nigel, but what they are demanding is the figure of the "divorce" settlement now. If we do that, we hand over all our bargaining chips to them.

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  • It must be very difficult for a government that largely voted Remain to do the Brexit thing. It doesn't surprise me, therefore, that stalling and humming and ha-ing has been the order of the day, along with idiot threats from the Mother Ship.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • EU seems to be only interested in money due , ala divorce? Bill! , it seems our share of assets and past debts are not important .

    Yep it's all about the money as far as the EU are concerned, they are worried that they will lose one of their major cash cows when the UK leaves.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Do you reckon, Ron, that they're just trying to stop us leaving?

    t must be very difficult for a government that largely voted Remain to do the Brexit thing.

    It's one of the reasons I don't trust May.

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  • Do you reckon, Ron, that they're just trying to stop us leaving?

    I believe they are trying to make leaving as difficult as possible in the hope we will decide to stay, but be under no illusion it's not us they will miss but our money.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • I agree and this situation with Catalonia makes it even worst for them as it's another several million people who won't be paying into their kitty.

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  • Theresa May is to travel to Brussels later for a dinner with EU leaders in a bid to end a stalemate over Brexit.


    The meeting, with chief negotiator Michel Barnier and Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker, comes days after the pair said talks were in "deadlock".

    I don't see the EU changing its mind, but perhaps May could take a few bottles of something nice for Juncker, it might work.


    Two years ago almost to the day, Merkel came to London and addressed parliament and said the EU was all important to them above all else. They are not going to change their minds, because they don't want a UK severance deal as being seen as too easy or attractive, that it might tempt other EU countries into leaving too.

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  • Look at Austria in the news this morning! Soon they will want independence.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • They will take our share of assets into account Nigel, but what they are demanding is the figure of the "divorce" settlement now. If we do that, we hand over all our bargaining chips to them.

    The'y can't have done, if they have arrived at a £70 to £90 billion so called 'divorce' bill!! That equates to between an 8 to 10 year UK net EU subsidy, which is ridiculous.....and with regard to Junker's preposterous analogy of neglecting to buy a round of drinks, he is ignoring the fact that the UK has been one of the nations in the forefront for paying the 'bar' bill for over 40 years, whilst many member states are continually subsidised by the inflated prices included on those annual bar bills!!

  • As I said in the other thread Stevlin, forget Juncker, it's what Merkel says that counts in the EU of "equal" nations...

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  • Yes Juncker is just the puppet the one pulling the strings is Merkel.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Apparently the EU want 100 billion, now if May doesn't tell them to shove that where the sun don't shine and walk away she has no business being UK PM end of, it's obvious they are taking the piss in the hope we change our minds about leaving.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Oh, yes, they are having a field day harassing a PM who cannot tell them to take a hike.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore


  • Worth reading the full piece.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • Isn't there anyone in Government with enough sense and freedom to speak their mind and say in public:


    Script A


    This isn't a guessing game. If you know the amount, tell us what you believe it is in an itemised invoice. If you don't know, provided we commence negotiations in substance rather than with political waffle, we will pay you on account a small goodwill sum, say £5 billion and, while we are negotiating, your financial department can get its act together and work out and send us an itemised invoice.

    Meanwhile, if our negotiations with the EU are getting nowhere, just going round in circles, with nothing agreed, where the EU is fixated on trying to find problems rather than solutions, we will terminate negotiations and assume you are unwilling to enter into any arrangement of mutual benefit.


    In a spirit of goodwill we will try to continue trading with the EU as before but if you impose customs rules and tariffs that are obviously malicious in intent, designed as a deterrent for other EU members, which make our trading with the EU economically impractical, then we will justifiably conclude that you no longer wish to regard us as part of Europe,or even as an ally of Europe, and the EU-UK relationship will terminate.


    The goodwill sum of £5 billion may or may not be what you think we we owe you (without an itemised invoice there is no way of knowing) but you may nevertheless keep it as a parting gift.


    Those who have have been EU citizens for at least 2 years and have been UK residents for at least 2 years are welcome to stay in the UK - the choice will be theirs. They will not be used as bargaining chips on how you treat UK citizens who have been living in the EU. Our UK citizens in the EU will know that they can always return to the UK if the EU discriminates against them.

    All of this will be incredibly sad but it will certainly not be of the UK's making. In the final analysis we will have to come to terms with the fact that we are not welcome in the EU or even if we are, we cannot push water uphill.


    Script B (alternative)


    Since the EU is unable or unwilling to provide us with an itemised invoice of what it believes we owe, if or when we leave, we have to assume such deliberate vagueness is either because (1) the EU doesn't know what is the agreed membership termination settlement or, more likely, (2) it wants that termination settlement figure to reflect the UK-EU trading deal we are able to secure. We have no problem with progressing along the lines of (2).


    What we can’t do, because it makes no sense, is to settle now on a total sum that represents termination and a new trading deal without knowing what will be that trading deal will be. It is like a seller demanding the buyer pays in advance for a product or service without being told it is. A buyer who is willing to do that would be mentally impaired. A seller expecting a buyer to do that is either himself mentally impaired or thinks the buyer is. WC Fields may be providing shrewd advice when he said “never give a sucker an even break” but while we are keen to find a way of having a good relationship with the EU – socially and commercially – and while we might ill-advisedly pay a premium for political expediency and justify doing so on the grounds by taking a long term view of our relationship with the EU, we are not suckers – and we are offended that the EU is behaving in a way that suggests they think otherwise.


    One last point: in negotiating a termination fee that also buys us a mutually beneficial trading solution, we place a time limit of 1 year on such a negotiation. After that we leave, deal or no deal. This is because, as we are sure the EU realises, a protracted negotiating period is detrimental to the UK’s best interests, creating a cautious slowing down of commercial decision-making (new export & import trading relationships, inward investing, home production self-sufficiency and tax policy).

  • Welcome back Rob.:):thumbup::thumbup:


    I'll respond to your post in a few minutes.

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  • Hi Rob, having got the quote you should just click below it, this will open up the space, give you a cursor and then you're good to go. Welcome back. :thumbup:

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

    If my post is in this colour  it is moderation. Take note.

  • See no need for a goodwill sum of any kind, certainly not one as high as £5 billion.


    Although the EU have stated that they don't expect us to give them a final "divorce" figure now, they are expecting us to agree on a mechanism for working out what that eventual figure would be. Obviously, by agreeing to such a mechanism, it would, in effect, be the same as agreeing to the final figure.


    At the moment, the EU is not negotiating with us. Barnier is just doing a tick box exercise, not entering into negotiations with us and expecting us to agree to his terms.


    I dislike the whole idea of "buying a mutually beneficial trading system," by its very definition, trade is meant to be beneficial to both parties, so why buy access to it?


    There needs to be a script C.:)


    Will come back to more of your points in a minute.

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  • Overall, I thoroughly disagree with Script A.


    Why should EU citizens be given absolute rights in the UK when those rights may not be reciprocated for UK citizens in the EU?


    And sod the goodwill gesture.:) This is a negotiation over a contract, goodwill has nothing to do with it.


    Right, I'll have a look at Script B again now. You've given a lot of material to ponder over, Rob. I like to ponder.:)

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  • On script B, fully agree with the middle paragraph, fully disagree with the other two.


    The reason the EU states that they want the "bill" settled first, is because it has nothing to do with the future trade negotiation, which is true. We are leaving their golf club and we need to settle the bar bill. But by doing so now, we don't know whether we'll ever gain some access into that club again, even if its just for mini golf, so it is not in our interests to agree the bill now first before talks about trade. The two things are separate, but need to be discussed in parallel with each other, not one after the other.

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  • Answering your two questions


    1 Because we are nicer than the EU and it is no skin off our nose and the rest of the world will look on and we will gain more respect on this issue than will the EU


    2 I'm sure the amount of the goodwill gesture is no greater than what we know we owe the EU (probably we owe a lot more) but I'm calling it a goodwill gesture just to try and encourage these wretched apparatchiks to be human


    It's good to ponder. Thank you for doing so

  • 1 Because we are nicer than the EU and it is no skin off our nose and the rest of the world will look on and we will gain more respect on this issue than will the EU

    Sorry, but disagree. I reckon it would be the opposite. Handing over £5 billion as a gift or goodwill gesture would be looked upon badly by other countries and make us look incredibly foolish and weak.

    2 I'm sure the amount of the goodwill gesture is no greater than what we know we owe the EU (probably we owe a lot more) but I'm calling it a goodwill gesture just to try and encourage these wretched apparatchiks to be human

    A goodwill gesture is totally unnecessary. Sod the EU apparatchiks. We make a contract with them, sign it and stick it. Leave goodwill out of it, this is a transaction.


    If you purchase a service or product from someone or some organisation, do you leave them a good will gesture too?

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