Changes to Freeview transmission discussion (with a techie edge)

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  • That might explain it then.

    It's also been suggested to me that it might be because the Sony app is coming to Freeview play. No idea if it is or not, or whether an app would need an Ofcom licence to launch.

  • In general, people don't understand the licensing system and don't notice that multiple services are included on the same licence. The Ofcom page doesn't help. To track it properly, you have to check every service, record the licence number against the service name and then resort the whole thing based on licence numbers. We used to have the whole thing on a database, I just checked and the last time it was updated was November 2017. I guess it was too much effort for too little gain.

  • In general, people don't understand the licensing system and don't notice that multiple services are included on the same licence. The Ofcom page doesn't help. To track it properly, you have to check every service, record the licence number against the service name and then resort the whole thing based on licence numbers. We used to have the whole thing on a database, I just checked and the last time it was updated was November 2017. I guess it was too much effort for too little gain.

    I used to do a similar thing (and with Sky and VM too) but other things got in the way and it never got updated.

  • Back to the subject of Freeview. The next batch of frequency changes locally will be to Emley Moor and some relay transmitters on February 5th. That should be the final batch of changes although further relays (including Oliver's Mount, Keighley & Idle) will change frequency on February 12th. Also on Feb 5th, Sheffield and relays have their final frequency changes, with Sheffield losing COM 7 & COM 8, and the Grenoside transmitter finally being activated for the Sheffield local multiplex. Grenoside will be horizontally polarised and will bring Sheffield Live to residents of Northern Sheffield and other areas which normally receive their signals from Emley Moor (rather than the Sheffield transmitter aka Crosspool or Tapton Hill). Maybe I'll actually be able to receive Sheffield Live for the first time, how exciting! :rolleyes: - Although Grenoside is significantly off beam from Emley Moor at this location.

    5th February also brings the first step of the final frequency changes for Belmont and relays and for Chesterfield, with Belmont getting the last of its frequency changes on March 4th after the East Midlands changes have released the required frequencies.

    Other scheduled changes:

    Feb 5th

    East Anglia East -Talcolneston (relays)

    Feb 12th

    East Anglia West - Sandy Heath region

    Feb 20th

    North West - Winter Hill region (stage 1)

    March 4th

    Northern Ireland / Belfast - Divis region

    East Midlands - Waltham & Nottingham regions

    Scotland / Ayrshire - Darvel region

    April 22nd

    North West - Winter Hill region (stage 2) - including Saddleworth & Storeton and relays of Lancaster & Pendle Forest

    North East Wales - Moel Y Parc region

    West Borders - relays of Caldbeck & Caldbeck Scotland

    April 29th

    Isle of Man - Douglas

    West Borders - Kendal

    West Borders - Caldbeck (2nd frequency for local channel activated)

    When that lot is complete and the DTT scanners have competed their updated DTT frequency plan, they should have more time to monitor the more routine changes on Freeview.

    Edited 2 times, last by jj20x (January 28, 2020 at 4:25 AM).

  • Did a quick background check on that and I reckon it will be IPTV services. The parent company of the licensee is Vision IPTV.

    Sony? That would be interesting.

    Is there any way they could implement it in a way that, if the user doesn't get their relevant channels via a Local TV multiplex the number would divert to streaming if an internet connection is present?

    I'm envisaging a version of what one of the Now music channels does (it only transmits for 2 hours in the morning, outside those hours it's streamed) but for the entire broadcast day if the viewer isn't in an appropriate reception region.

  • Is there any way they could implement it in a way that, if the user doesn't get their relevant channels via a Local TV multiplex the number would divert to streaming if an internet connection is present?

    Not on the channel number used on the local mux, although streamed versions could be added in the 200's.

    LCNs are held in the NIT on Freeview, so it doesn't have much flexibility.

  • Not on the channel number used on the local mux, although streamed versions could be added in the 200's.

    LCNs are held in the NIT on Freeview, so it doesn't have much flexibility.

    So how have the likes of the Now (can't remember if it's the 80s or 90s one that is on two hours a day) channel been able to use their channel number after their broadcast hours are up? Pretty sure one of the shopping channels did similar to extend their hours.

    Is there an exception if the channel is on a nationwide multiplex rather than a Local one?

    ---

    I just reread your post. The NIT part took a while to filter through my brain. :)

    You are saying the channel needs to be on the list the multiplex holds at that number, and the Local multiplex ones are of course only on those, unlike the streaming channels in the 200s which are listed on national lists.

    Is the NIT on each multiplex or just on a few of them.

  • What will this mean in practice for Emley Moor users? Will they need to retune, change their aerial or it's position or will they lose any channels?

    I'm asking for an autistic relative who wouldn't understand what's happening, so would like to be able to inform and advise her.

  • What will this mean in practice for Emley Moor users? Will they need to retune, change their aerial or it's position or will they lose any channels?

    I'm asking for an autistic relative who wouldn't understand what's happening, so would like to be able to inform and advise her.

    A retune should do it, a change of aerial shouldn't be necessary. Viewers who had problems receiving Channel 5 (analogue) or COM 7 / 8 could have problems but, basically COM 4 (SDN) and COM 5 (Arq A) are moving to the frequency range previously used by Channel 5 (analogue) and COM 7 / 8.

    COM 7 will also change frequency but COM 8 already has and if COM 8 hasn't caused any problems, neither should COM 7. However, Emley Moor, Belmont and Bilsdale will be operating as SFNs (for COM 7 & 8 ) from Feb 5th, so there may be a few new mush zones where these multiplexes become unusable. Probably the reason why smaller service areas such as Sheffield have had COM 7 & 8 discontinued from this date.

    Edited once, last by jj20x (February 4, 2020 at 5:57 PM).

  • If the same LCN is issued by 2 different multiplexes with different TSIDs in the same area, receiving equipment wouldn't know which multiplex should get the LCN and which should be dumped in the 800 range. Some equipment could randomly select one service and ignore the other completely. The LCN rules used for PSB regional multiplexes don't necessarily work the same way on the COM multiplexes (which generally carry the streaming channels).

    Any attempt to answer your NIT question would confuse the issue.

    Now 90s uses data carried on the same SID as the broadcast channel to link to an MHEG-IC channel and can be set to do that whether the channel is broadcasting or not. That can't be used for local multiplexes as, if you can't see the local multiplex, you wouldn't be able to see the data stream.

  • I guess the temporary mast at Emley Moor will be surplus to requirements fairly soon. Perhaps now would be a good time to take a night time walk for a last look at the warning lights of the twin masts showing up on the horizon.

  • Did a quick background check on that and I reckon it will be IPTV services. The parent company of the licensee is Vision IPTV.

    Yes, one of the licensees is Synapse, the other is Arqiva and they are the block licences used for MHEG-IC services. Looking back at the 2017 listings, many of the TV services listed were IPTV covered by these licences. Also, many of the future changes to Freeview posts on another forum have been IPTV channels from this list. How will they get their info now that individual channels are no longer named?

    Having said that could Ofcom have come up with more misleading names? It would have been better to name them Arqiva MHEG-IC and Synapse MHEG-IC or even Arqiva IPTV etc. A sign of the times...

    Edited once, last by jj20x (January 28, 2020 at 12:45 PM).

  • It's already been sold! https://www.ppauctions.com/lot/131049/pt-2

    If you do go for a walk past them, could you take a photo?

    I don't think it would make a good photo at this distance, it would be a few red lights on the horizon. There's a lot of close up photos on the internet.

    It looks like this one but from a totally different angle and further away.

    https://i2-prod.examinerlive.co.uk/incoming/artic…JS158521597.jpg

    Just search for twin masts at Emley Moor on Google images.

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