Farage calls for 2nd referendum. WTF??

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  • Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage says he is close to backing a second EU referendum to end the "whinging and whining" of anti-Brexit campaigners.


    Mr Farage told Channel 5's The Wright Stuff a fresh vote could "kill off" the Remain campaign for a generation.

    He said "the percentage that would vote to leave next time would be very much bigger than it was last time round".

    I guess that he will lose his MEP job and things have gone quiet on the Trump from, so Nige is looking for something to do, but this. NO??


    We made a decision and that's that. The UK is leaving the EU No reason for a second vote and unlike Farage, I'm not so sure the leave side would win. London almost swayed the vote before and as London is majority foreign now, another vote could go the other way.


    What on earth is he thinking?

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  • Farage will be doing his daily phone in show on LBC radio from 7pm tonight. Should be lively!

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  • Farage has just said on LBC that he met Barnier on Monday and is convinced the UK will not get a good deal out of him and he thinks parliament will ultimately go for a second referendum anyway, so he is saying be prepared for that.


    He reckons that while the Leave campaign has wound down, the Remain campaign hasn't and high profile remainers like Blair keep calling for a second ref, so he wants to shut those "loosers" up, as he has called them.


    A caller has said it will cause such a constitutional crisis that the MPs won't have the bottle to do it, but Farage disagrees.


    Horizon's analysis:


    Farage said that a second vote would split the two main parties in half, which I agree with and THAT is what this is all about. Him. He wants to split the vote of the main parties, as had happened in the referendum in 2016 and create a new party with himself anointed king of it.

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  • Is he doing a Trump? I see a new word entering the dictionary of contemporary definitions: "Trumpian". ^^

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • Farage has got to do something to keep himself in the media, just like any typical politician.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • He's obviously gone totally insane. This will boost the remain camp tremendously and could well cause the eventual death of any form of Brexit.

    What happens if it's 52% for remain and 48% for leave next time? Do we get a third referendum?


    Democracy itself will be at risk in that case. We need to stick to our guns.

  • Blame the government and their half-arsed and lacklustre efforts at carrying out Brexit, the caving in over the bribe has really shown them to be weak and ineffectual, the cowardly so called Brexit supports among them, who seem too scared to speak out.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Article 50 has been triggered so the option to "remain" doesn't exist. We could "rejoin" but all the existing concessions, rebates and not joining the Euro would all be scrapped.


    The only question could be the same as parliaments one to vote on: May's deal or no deal.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • He's obviously gone totally insane. This will boost the remain camp tremendously and could well cause the eventual death of any form of Brexit.

    What happens if it's 52% for remain and 48% for leave next time? Do we get a third referendum?


    Democracy itself will be at risk in that case. We need to stick to our guns.

    You are totally wrong , I know absolutely nobody who wants to stay in , even Remainers I know are sick of the EU stance of we need to punish anyone who wants to leave .

  • You are totally wrong , I know absolutely nobody who wants to stay in , even Remainers I know are sick of the EU stance of we need to punish anyone who wants to leave .

    That's not my experience at least on the internet. There are still as many remainers as ever terrified that if we leave the EU the country will go into some sot of meltdown. Project Fear is still working.

  • He's obviously gone totally insane. This will boost the remain camp tremendously and could well cause the eventual death of any form of Brexit.

    What happens if it's 52% for remain and 48% for leave next time? Do we get a third referendum?


    Democracy itself will be at risk in that case. We need to stick to our guns.

    Indeed and it's why I said that Farage shouldn't be so confident that Leave would win a second time. London's population has grown massively in just two years...


    Blame the government and their half-arsed and lacklustre efforts at carrying out Brexit, the caving in over the bribe has really shown them to be weak and ineffectual, the cowardly so called Brexit supports among them, who seem too scared to speak out.

    Doesn't bode well for the next stage of negotiations, does it?

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  • I actually wonder if Farage and UKIP had managed to get in power would we still be faffing about as we are now or would they have pushed the Brexit process on a lot quicker, I guess we will never know.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Article 50 has been triggered so the option to "remain" doesn't exist

    It's arguable that one. Some lawyers say Article 50 can simply be revoked, ie the UK can change its mind about leaving th EU, while other lawyers say the process is irreversible.

    I actually wonder if Farage and UKIP had managed to get in power would we still be faffing about as we are now or would they have pushed the Brexit process on a lot quicker, I guess we will never know.

    I think they would have pushed the button a lot sooner, but as you say, we'll never know.


    The government was correct in delaying things so it could prepare (cough...:rolleyes:.) for the negotiations.

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  • I think the main difference would have been that all of UKIP would have been singing from the same hymn sheet regarding Brexit, whereas with the Tories some want to leave and some don't, and those who want to leave amongst the Tories seem to be keeping very quiet maybe in fear of losing their stipend if they make too much fuss.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • I think Nigel Farage now has personal financial reasons for wanting Britain to stay in the EU. I feel the same way. To explain:


    In the campaigning leading to the 1st referendum I brushed aside "Project Fear" as Cameron's government trying to scaremonger the public into remaining. I quite fancied the idea of Britain, as a sovereign nation, regaining the right to be master of its own destiny.


    I always knew the EU would be sore losers and not make it easy for Britain. What I hadn't bargained for was how ineffectual Britain was going to be in negotiating with the EU, how ossified, pedantic and indecisive we were. I considered it to be a bad omen for our ability to prosper in a more dynamic global trading environment outside the cosy cartel of the EU. Although I think British companies can be enterprising and competitive, I severely under-estimated the dead hand of British government, willing to impose or accept rules and regulations that can severely handicap trading successfully with other countries and how it will cause foreign companies to think twice about investing in a Britain that is heading downhill.


    So if there was a second referendum, I'd vote to remain. That way we can go downhill within the EU, which will be a much slower rate of descent, enabling me to sell up in Britain during an initial brief economic euphoria, rent a pied a terre in London and rent somewhere else in Europe where the weather and people are more agreeable.

  • Do you think that the British have lost their mojo, Rob? I didn't want to think this as they are my people and so for a long time I fought like a caged tiger in support of their independence. I just didn't want to acknowledge what had happened to them. I believed they were strong and clever and brave and wanted to be free and continue to be strong, clever and brave.


    I have to admit that as the years went by and I got beaten to death on the net for supporting them, incessantly called a racist by some and a liberal by others and insulted sexually, personally and in every other way by people purporting to love the folk and the nation, and called a "foreigner" and a spy, a nutter and and a whore into the bargain, I did begin to wonder if they had lost their marbles along the way of too many devastating wars and a lot of socialist indoctrination.


    So, have my people lost their mojo?

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • The problem is as soon as any Brit shows any sign of national pride or patriotism they are labelled as being racist.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • True, Ron. It's very sad and I am always going to be there in spirit for those who get shafted by what has come to pass.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • Do you think that the British have lost their mojo, Rob? I didn't want to think this as they are my people and so for a long time I fought like a caged tiger in support of their independence. I just didn't want to acknowledge what had happened to them. I believed they were strong and clever and brave and wanted to be free and continue to be strong, clever and brave.


    I have to admit that as the years went by and I got beaten to death on the net for supporting them, incessantly called a racist by some and a liberal by others and insulted sexually, personally and in every other way by people purporting to love the folk and the nation, and called a "foreigner" and a spy, a nutter and and a whore into the bargain, I did begin to wonder if they had lost their marbles along the way of too many devastating wars and a lot of socialist indoctrination.


    So, have my people lost their mojo?

    The short answer is yes.


    There are so many factors and trends, so let me ramble on a bit and try and explain …. if only to myself!


    I think the loss of mojo is a consequence of a trend that has gone something like this:


    - From post WW2 ration books to You’ve Never Had It So Good and the Swinging Sixties


    - Embracing hedonism and permissiveness


    - Morphing into Thatcher’s Children, the pursuit of easy money, rip-off Britain


    - Coupled with an unhealthy envy of wealth among the have-nots, where elitism became a dirty word


    - With periods of Labour Government encouraging this hostile envy and offering the have-nots and the exceeding-average an arrogant sense of entitlement to a wide range of social benefits.


    - Somewhere along the line the Affluent Society became the Effluent Society.


    - All of this helped to build the foundation for what we know as “popular democracy”, deteriorating into mob rule


    - With today’s politicians (our so-called leaders) cravenly worshiping votes rather than principles, the mob has now become saddled with the government and the country it deserves.


    America is also suffering from “popular democracy” but it still has more of a healthy ambivalence to what is going on right now and, in contrast to Britain, it remains a powerhouse of enterprise and progressive technology, and the harnessing of the two. Those who voted Trump into office - and have been willing to focus more on substance than image - could well have the last laugh.


    When I first went to Manhattan in the 70’s I was struck by queues of customers in their lunch hour outside a sandwich deli in Wall Street – a complete mix of steel construction helmets, overalls and expensive Brooks Brothers suits. You would never find that in Britain. It illustrated the American perception of wealth and success as something to be ungrudgingly acceptable and, more than that, aspirational. Class snobbery existed but did not underscore the America’s society to the extent that it does in Britain (that said, I can never forgive America for the way it treated black people).


    American Union bosses and presidents of manufacturing corporations have worked out deals. In strike-ridden Britain, class-obsessed union bosses like Red Robbo, Scargill, Crowe, etc, coupled with the rigid insensitivity and lack of entrepreneurism of senior management, has turned Britain into a a white collar society by default rather than planning. In the sixties British occupations divided 25% non-manual (white collar) and 75% manual (blue collar). Today white collar exceeds blue collar, which has created a jobs-worth culture, leading to bureaucracy and analysis-paralysis. Such ossification has become an epidemic or cancer in Britain’s government. If young voters, the spearhead of mob rule, get their way, and if today’s Tories behave like, well, like today’s Tories, an extreme leftwing socialist Britain is just a few years away and we will truly become, as Trump so descriptively put it, just another of those shithole countries.


    That’s why my answer is “yes”. I’m sure there are many who would also answer “yes”. But not enough of them. Like you Little Wing, they are my people too. But it’s getting damn hard to identify with them.

  • I agree with all that. My English grandfather left in 1900 and he told my father "England is finished" after WWI. He shared this view with many others and he was a very patriotic man. I think Europe is tired, exhausted even, and hasn't had any good ideas about reviving itself. Too busy being an international social worker.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • I agree with all that. My English grandfather left in 1900 and he told my father "England is finished" after WWI. He shared this view with many others and he was a very patriotic man. I think Europe is tired, exhausted even, and hasn't had any good ideas about reviving itself. Too busy being an international social worker.

    Thanks - that's a hell of a lot to agree with!


    I think your prognosis-cum-personification of Europe as an international social worker is spot on. Yet I suspect many European countries don't even recognise that they drifted in that direction There is a segmentation (or schizophrenia or maybe just muddled thinking) between those who understand and subscribe to equality of opportunity versus those who subscribe to equality full stop, where everyone is a winner or nobody is a loser. At which point Trump can talk about whether to let in folks from that shithole continent! I think the EU will either experience a reality check or split up into countries that are winners and countries that are losers. Right now, the signs are that Britain will be among the losers, whether in or out of the EU.

  • There was a time when I was so upset about this that I became a keyboard activist. If I'd been in Britain I would almost certainly have been more than that. But, like so many others, I had to give up. The reason finally sank in. You can't flog a dead horse and you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. We wouldn't have these sayings unless our ancestors had already been there, done that and bought the t-shirt factory.


    I am sorry for the large minority who are going to get shafted, but unless this miraculously turns into a large majority, things will go downhill. Britain will become another sad little Euro socialist state. It will lose its brains to China and Asia in general as there are requests from this region now for skilled immigrants so the new economic force can become a reality in more ways than one. History is repeating itself. Once they went to America, now they will have to go to Asia. And still the craziness that grips them now will be there, forcing the British further away from their ancestral achievements, and most importantly, from their identity. Rome became a ruin. They know it but they don't act on it. In fact many of them think this is good, to be nothing is good, to try to erode yourself away is somehow holy.


    It's a new secular religion, as deadly as its predecessor.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore