Political Correctness, Liberalism, Race, Religion, Free Speech, Media Bias, Sex and Gender Equality

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  • I don't follow, do you have any examples?

    Surely what you do in your own time is your business unless you are talking about industrial espionage

    If, for example, as an HR recruitment professional I was to write to my local paper or post on twitter racist views indicating that people from the white native population were more trustworthy and honest and that employers should think twice about appointing black people as accountants because they would fiddle the books for their own enrichment, I would be bringing my own employer into disrepute. How could they justify having a person in that line of work who is responsible for recruitment into the organisation and who holds the view that black people are untrustworthy and should not be employed as accountants?


    Having such a person working in that role in the company suggests that the organisation itself is racist because its recruitment processes do not comply with equal opportunities principles. The behaviour of that employee would inevitably shine a light on the way the company hires its staff, which would be unwelcome and damaging.


    Employees should be clear that inappropriate activities outside the workplace can have an impact on their employer's reputation, for which you can be dismissed.


    In the Burnley case, if the people who arranged that flypast advertisement were employees of the football club, they are basically telling people that they do not agree with the club's policy, undermining the message that the club takes racial discrimination seriously. So don't be surprised when you read they are to be disciplined for that.

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  • In the Burnley case, if the people who arranged that flypast advertisement were employees of the football club, they are basically telling people that they do not agree with the club's policy, undermining the message that the club takes racial discrimination seriously. So don't be surprised when you read they are to be disciplined for that.

    But the organisers were not employed by the club, they were supporters and as such could be banned from attending matches. I think from memory they were employed by an engineering firm and I would lay any odds that their views are shared by the workers there. I cannot see how this brings an engineering firm into disrepute

  • It is a standard feature of modern Employment Contracts that your behaviour outside of work must not compromise or embarrass your employer and if it does you can be disciplined and potentially fired.


    Corporate reputation is King. Activists are very well organised at putting pressure on companies because they know that they cannot afford to be tarnished by scandal. It is known as corporate cowardice because these Woke organisations will never defend their employees, they will always thrown them under the bus to save their bottom line. If they do stand up to the mob, the mob will go after their customers, clients and suppliers instead. The idea is to choke off finance and smear reputation unless you acquiesce to the mob threats. This can escalate quite quickly and has lead to companies being informed that their bank wont have them as a customer anymore, Paypal and other payment handling services refuse to touch you and your Google search results get relegated or your ISP drops you.


    It is a very dangerous game to not be Woke and in business. It all sounds like racketeering and should be illegal in a free society but it goes on unchecked, you have to wonder what our leaders are doing.

  • But the organisers were not employed by the club, they were supporters and as such could be banned from attending matches. I think from memory they were employed by an engineering firm and I would lay any odds that their views are shared by the workers there. I cannot see how this brings an engineering firm into disrepute

    It could if they took the view that these comments were racist, because the firm would not wish to be associated with such views.

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  • It could if they took the view that these comments were racist, because the firm would not wish to be associated with such views.

    Trade unions are amongst the most racist organisations, how many BAME union leaders can you name?

    If firms are to be judged by their workers racist views, a lot would be in trouble

  • Trade unions are amongst the most racist organisations, how many BAME union leaders can you name?

    If firms are to be judged by their workers racist views, a lot would be in trouble

    Their views are irrelevant to this. What is relevant is their actions, including their tweets.

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  • Note to Horizon - This is posted in the correct Thread it relates to equality and diversity not sport.


    See link - BBC Sport Formula 1


    Mercedes F1 Team, no doubt greatly encouraged by Lewis Hamilton, who has been in full on SJW mode since the death of George Floyd, have revised their beautiful Silver livery to Black for the upcoming F1 season which finally gets going in Austria this coming weekend. This is Mercedes very visual response to what they describe as the lack of diversity in Formula 1 in general and within their own team in particular. One quote I will post directly from the linked article above is this:


    Mercedes F1 team said in a statement that


    "just 3% of our workforce identify as belonging to minority ethnic groups and only 12% of our employees are women"...."This lack of diversity shows that we need to find new approaches to attract talent from many areas of society we do not currently reach."


    Mercedes F1 based in Brackley near Silverstone employs approx 1500 people. As many of you will know Mercedes F1 team have been untouchable for the last 6 years as they have taken the drivers and constructors world championships in all of these past 6 seasons.


    This is something of a winning combination don't you think? Now I don't know about you but I cannot see that bringing in people with different skin colours, religions and genitalia is going to make any significant improvements to a near perfect record of performance. I am therefore sceptical of their second statement about attracting new talent, they are hardly short of it in the first place and, in any case surely people are free to apply for any advertised job, I know that Mercedes F1 advertise just as everyone else does. I also know they are very fussy about who they recruit and academic ability, especially on the engineering side is extremely important.


    I am also not entirely certain how they intend to bring in these new diverse people. Are they intending to boot whitey out to make room for BAME? Are they just going to have preferential recruitment policies which favour BAME over whites in future (affirmative action/positive discrimination)? The skill set required for F1 is quite specific so if our BAME community choose not to study the required subjects then what is to be done?


    The most likely outcome of this push for diversity is that opportunities will open up for women more on the engineering side. I don't think that recruiting more female office administrators is what Mercedes intend as the outcome of their initiative, that is more likely to have been seen as a failure if that is all they manage to achieve.


    Of course none of this fits in well with the Black Livery which is a blatant Homage to Black Lives Matter. Therefore I think the intent is to try and cram as many BAME into Mercedes F1 as possible and hope they can deliver championship winning F1 cars as well as the current group of mainly white engineers do. Another slant on this is perhaps for Lewis Hamilton to have an all black pit crew although I see that is even less likely than engineering.


    I am always concerned and confused when big organisations make statements like Mercedes F1 have here, it will inevitably lead to a loss of focus, reduced cohesion and chemistry and a loss of performance. In other words and not because of the BAME people that get themselves recruited, Mercedes will become less successful as they become more woke, it happens every time. The old saying "Get woke, Go broke" didn't come from nowhere, it is true.

  • They say they are working to attract talent from these communities. That means encouraging people from BAME and of female gender to put themselves forward by making clear in all their recruitment campaigns that they welcome such applications.


    However, it is unlawful to discriminate in their favour when recruiting.

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  • They say they are working to attract talent from these communities. That means encouraging people from BAME and of female gender to put themselves forward by making clear in all their recruitment campaigns that they welcome such applications.


    However, it is unlawful to discriminate in their favour when recruiting.

    I thought that positive discrimination was allowed

  • I don't follow, do you have any examples?

    Surely what you do in your own time is your business unless you are talking about industrial espionage

    I have. I was a retail area manager, and every January was the same. Shop staff would go out one evening prior to Christmas and all get drunk. It wasn't uncommon for people to then fall out, and at times have a punch up. I can't tell you how many people over the years I sacked for that type of behaviour.

    White lives matter

  • I thought that positive discrimination was allowed

    Yes, what's wrong with employers just employing the right people to do the job. If they are all white, all black, all brown, or all in wheel chairs, it shouldn't matter. A business is there to make money, not to fulfill the wishes of the politically correct

    White lives matter

  • I thought that positive discrimination was allowed

    Not in this country it's not. You can encourage people to apply from specific ethnic groups or who are of a given gender if they are under-represented when compared to the population. However, appointments should always be made on merit (ie who best meets the person specification).

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  • They say they are working to attract talent from these communities. That means encouraging people from BAME and of female gender to put themselves forward by making clear in all their recruitment campaigns that they welcome such applications.


    However, it is unlawful to discriminate in their favour when recruiting.

    I know this, my comment is that anyone with appropriate skills and qualifications are already free to apply for the jobs they are advertising. What should any employer do to attract people from a particular identity group? Should they do anything at all? Should they just make it clear they welcome applicants from all parts of society, which they should be doing as business as usual? Should an employer feel guilty or be made to feel guilty if they do not have sufficient diversity? Why is diversity important? Is diversity important? What if you only get straight white male applications? Should you re-advertise until you receive more diverse applicants? What if the diverse applicants are not the best for the job? What has happened to meritocracy?


    Does anyone care about diversity on low skilled work? We are told the NHS would fall apart if it wasn't for BAME people? Is that OK? Shouldn't all work reflect society in terms of diversity mix? Shouldn't most jobs be majority white, majority straight, to reflect real demographic proportions?


    Lewis Hamilton is 6 times world champion because he had the best car - designed by white engineers - does he recognise that inconvenient truth? He still had to drive the cars and he is without doubt the best of his era and his skin colour is irrelevant to most. The reaction of the crowds at the British GP should tell Lewis Hamilton that he is well loved in the British racing fans community. His continued support of BLM and his influence on Mercedes F1 will only damage him and his employer in the long run.

  • Not in this country it's not. You can encourage people to apply from specific ethnic groups or who are of a given gender if they are under-represented when compared to the population. However, appointments should always be made on merit (ie who best meets the person specification).

    What about political parties who use positive discrimination and jobs just for women and those with disabilities

  • Talking about contracts which companies can put what the hell they like in and if you don't agree you don't get the job and if you break that contract they can legally dismiss you as the drop of a hat. If you work for Amazon they have a clause in their contract that says your not allowed to join a Union and if you do you will be dismissed even if Union activities are only outside of working hours. The whole US contract type militant legalities need to be abandoned and we should go back to simple employment rights. Companies have too much protection which they abuse at the expense of their employees.

  • I don't know or care whether Lord Scarman's positive discrimination is still allowed or not in this country. I only know that it has grown over the years at a faster rate than Japanese Knot Weed and it diminishes the right to make choices based on merit rather than actual or imagined handicaps. Such biased or misplaced choices spring from ideology, political dogma or a misplaced sense of equality. The end result is counter productive because it highlights inequality rather than working towards eradicating it.

  • If you work for Amazon they have a clause in their contract that says your not allowed to join a Union and if you do you will be dismissed even if Union activities are only outside of working hours.

    Unions are not the bee all and end all, look at Nissan in the N East where unions are not allowed but they have a very good management/worker committees who ensure industrial peace. Amazon staff seem very happy, they even appear on their TV ads

  • I don't know or care whether Lord Scarman's positive discrimination is still allowed or not in this country.

    Football grandees have today instructed clubs to appoint more BAME people into management and the boardroom as there are so many black players and I think only one black manager

  • Not in this country it's not. You can encourage people to apply from specific ethnic groups or who are of a given gender if they are under-represented when compared to the population. However, appointments should always be made on merit (ie who best meets the person specification).

    I normally agree, but there are NO laws against positive discrimination. I was trained to a relatively high level in aspects of employment law, and only discrimination against minorities was ever covered. The police force and fire brigade are quite blatant when they recruit, and openly request minority groups apply.

    White lives matter

  • Football grandees have today instructed clubs to appoint more BAME people into management and the boardroom as there are so many black players and I think only one black manager

    I don't believe in discrimination, either positive or negative. IMO the best person for the job should be employed irrespective of their colour. .Racism in employment is abhorrent.

  • I don't believe in discrimination, either positive or negative. IMO the best person for the job should be employed irrespective of their colour. .Racism in employment is abhorrent.

    Agreed, and affirmative action/positive discrimination is racism pure and simple.

  • I don't believe in discrimination, either positive or negative. IMO the best person for the job should be employed irrespective of their colour. .Racism in employment is abhorrent.

    Racism anywhere is abhorrent, sadly all to prevalent from the supremacists. You can always tell who they are when they boast about the right side of the tracks, you never have to look very far

  • I don't believe in discrimination, either positive or negative. IMO the best person for the job should be employed irrespective of their colour. .Racism in employment is abhorrent.

    but you it doesn't work like that. I believe it is extremely rare a white person wouldn't employ a person of colour, but know full well it isn't the same the other way around. Also, the police, fire brigade, councils, etc have quotas. It makes me laugh when I here about black people being oppressed, I think it's more like the other way around.

    White lives matter

  • I normally agree, but there are NO laws against positive discrimination. I was trained to a relatively high level in aspects of employment law, and only discrimination against minorities was ever covered. The police force and fire brigade are quite blatant when they recruit, and openly request minority groups apply.

    The law enables them to do that. But when selecting staff for actual employment, they are legally bound not to positively discriminate. They must appoint on merit.

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  • The law enables them to do that. But when selecting staff for actual employment, they are legally bound not to positively discriminate. They must appoint on merit.

    My friend is a retired fireman. His station had an open day for two new recruits. There was a line of young white males half a mile long. His son was interested, but my friend was told by his station leader that he had been instructed ONLY to recruit from ethnic minorities. At the time the area I used to live in was about 98% white indigenous, but they managed to recruit two black youths. Now tell me there isn't positive discrimination, it happens all the time, and mainly by government run departments and services.

    White lives matter

  • My friend is a retired fireman. His station had an open day for two new recruits. There was a line of young white males half a mile long. His son was interested, but my friend was told by his station leader that he had been instructed ONLY to recruit from ethnic minorities. At the time the area I used to live in was about 98% white indigenous, but they managed to recruit two black youths. Now tell me there isn't positive discrimination, it happens all the time, and mainly by government run departments and services.

    If that is true, it is indeed positive discrimination, but it doesn't take away the fact that it is illegal to do so.


    https://www.personneltoday.com…ease-workforce-diversity/

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  • It's also against the law to discriminate against somebody's age, but I presume you realise it happens.

    It happens because by and large people are more likely to accept it. For example, if you are unfairly made redundant, it may suit you to just take the redundancy payoff and pension.


    If you are not selected for a job because you are too young, most people will accept that they don't have any (or sufficient) experience compared with other candidates - besides which, they don't want to be rejected by other employers who may not want to take on 'troublemakers' who use the employment tribunal system.


    It's quite difficult to prove age discrimination in many cases. If you are younger, you won't be able to meet requirements such as 'experienced' or 'highly skilled', for example, and if you are older, employers can say that they needed people with energy, flair and up-to-date experience.


    Mind you, a clever employer will find their way through most allegations of discrimination, provided one of their own employees who are party to the decision doesn't let the cat out of the bag.

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  • Shortly before I came out of management, an employment law was passed that insisted on employers keeping notes of the interview. For the last year or so I had to forward all my notes to the HR department, just in case. I spent more time worrying about what I had written, than I did listening to the candidate.

    White lives matter