Political Correctness

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  • I thought that positive discrimination was allowed

    Yes, what's wrong with employers just employing the right people to do the job. If they are all white, all black, all brown, or all in wheel chairs, it shouldn't matter. A business is there to make money, not to fulfill the wishes of the politically correct

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • They say they are working to attract talent from these communities. That means encouraging people from BAME and of female gender to put themselves forward by making clear in all their recruitment campaigns that they welcome such applications.

    However, it is unlawful to discriminate in their favour when recruiting.

    I know this, my comment is that anyone with appropriate skills and qualifications are already free to apply for the jobs they are advertising. What should any employer do to attract people from a particular identity group? Should they do anything at all? Should they just make it clear they welcome applicants from all parts of society, which they should be doing as business as usual? Should an employer feel guilty or be made to feel guilty if they do not have sufficient diversity? Why is diversity important? Is diversity important? What if you only get straight white male applications? Should you re-advertise until you receive more diverse applicants? What if the diverse applicants are not the best for the job? What has happened to meritocracy?

    Does anyone care about diversity on low skilled work? We are told the NHS would fall apart if it wasn't for BAME people? Is that OK? Shouldn't all work reflect society in terms of diversity mix? Shouldn't most jobs be majority white, majority straight, to reflect real demographic proportions?

    Lewis Hamilton is 6 times world champion because he had the best car - designed by white engineers - does he recognise that inconvenient truth? He still had to drive the cars and he is without doubt the best of his era and his skin colour is irrelevant to most. The reaction of the crowds at the British GP should tell Lewis Hamilton that he is well loved in the British racing fans community. His continued support of BLM and his influence on Mercedes F1 will only damage him and his employer in the long run.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Not in this country it's not. You can encourage people to apply from specific ethnic groups or who are of a given gender if they are under-represented when compared to the population. However, appointments should always be made on merit (ie who best meets the person specification).

    What about political parties who use positive discrimination and jobs just for women and those with disabilities

  • Talking about contracts which companies can put what the hell they like in and if you don't agree you don't get the job and if you break that contract they can legally dismiss you as the drop of a hat. If you work for Amazon they have a clause in their contract that says your not allowed to join a Union and if you do you will be dismissed even if Union activities are only outside of working hours. The whole US contract type militant legalities need to be abandoned and we should go back to simple employment rights. Companies have too much protection which they abuse at the expense of their employees.

  • I don't know or care whether Lord Scarman's positive discrimination is still allowed or not in this country. I only know that it has grown over the years at a faster rate than Japanese Knot Weed and it diminishes the right to make choices based on merit rather than actual or imagined handicaps. Such biased or misplaced choices spring from ideology, political dogma or a misplaced sense of equality. The end result is counter productive because it highlights inequality rather than working towards eradicating it.

  • If you work for Amazon they have a clause in their contract that says your not allowed to join a Union and if you do you will be dismissed even if Union activities are only outside of working hours.

    Unions are not the bee all and end all, look at Nissan in the N East where unions are not allowed but they have a very good management/worker committees who ensure industrial peace. Amazon staff seem very happy, they even appear on their TV ads

  • I don't know or care whether Lord Scarman's positive discrimination is still allowed or not in this country.

    Football grandees have today instructed clubs to appoint more BAME people into management and the boardroom as there are so many black players and I think only one black manager

  • Not in this country it's not. You can encourage people to apply from specific ethnic groups or who are of a given gender if they are under-represented when compared to the population. However, appointments should always be made on merit (ie who best meets the person specification).

    I normally agree, but there are NO laws against positive discrimination. I was trained to a relatively high level in aspects of employment law, and only discrimination against minorities was ever covered. The police force and fire brigade are quite blatant when they recruit, and openly request minority groups apply.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • Football grandees have today instructed clubs to appoint more BAME people into management and the boardroom as there are so many black players and I think only one black manager

    I don't believe in discrimination, either positive or negative. IMO the best person for the job should be employed irrespective of their colour. .Racism in employment is abhorrent.

    The Voice of Reason

  • I don't believe in discrimination, either positive or negative. IMO the best person for the job should be employed irrespective of their colour. .Racism in employment is abhorrent.

    Agreed, and affirmative action/positive discrimination is racism pure and simple.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • I don't believe in discrimination, either positive or negative. IMO the best person for the job should be employed irrespective of their colour. .Racism in employment is abhorrent.

    Racism anywhere is abhorrent, sadly all to prevalent from the supremacists. You can always tell who they are when they boast about the right side of the tracks, you never have to look very far

  • I don't believe in discrimination, either positive or negative. IMO the best person for the job should be employed irrespective of their colour. .Racism in employment is abhorrent.

    but you it doesn't work like that. I believe it is extremely rare a white person wouldn't employ a person of colour, but know full well it isn't the same the other way around. Also, the police, fire brigade, councils, etc have quotas. It makes me laugh when I here about black people being oppressed, I think it's more like the other way around.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • I normally agree, but there are NO laws against positive discrimination. I was trained to a relatively high level in aspects of employment law, and only discrimination against minorities was ever covered. The police force and fire brigade are quite blatant when they recruit, and openly request minority groups apply.

    The law enables them to do that. But when selecting staff for actual employment, they are legally bound not to positively discriminate. They must appoint on merit.

  • The law enables them to do that. But when selecting staff for actual employment, they are legally bound not to positively discriminate. They must appoint on merit.

    My friend is a retired fireman. His station had an open day for two new recruits. There was a line of young white males half a mile long. His son was interested, but my friend was told by his station leader that he had been instructed ONLY to recruit from ethnic minorities. At the time the area I used to live in was about 98% white indigenous, but they managed to recruit two black youths. Now tell me there isn't positive discrimination, it happens all the time, and mainly by government run departments and services.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • My friend is a retired fireman. His station had an open day for two new recruits. There was a line of young white males half a mile long. His son was interested, but my friend was told by his station leader that he had been instructed ONLY to recruit from ethnic minorities. At the time the area I used to live in was about 98% white indigenous, but they managed to recruit two black youths. Now tell me there isn't positive discrimination, it happens all the time, and mainly by government run departments and services.

    If that is true, it is indeed positive discrimination, but it doesn't take away the fact that it is illegal to do so.

    https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/how-employe…orce-diversity/

  • It's also against the law to discriminate against somebody's age, but I presume you realise it happens.

    It happens because by and large people are more likely to accept it. For example, if you are unfairly made redundant, it may suit you to just take the redundancy payoff and pension.

    If you are not selected for a job because you are too young, most people will accept that they don't have any (or sufficient) experience compared with other candidates - besides which, they don't want to be rejected by other employers who may not want to take on 'troublemakers' who use the employment tribunal system.

    It's quite difficult to prove age discrimination in many cases. If you are younger, you won't be able to meet requirements such as 'experienced' or 'highly skilled', for example, and if you are older, employers can say that they needed people with energy, flair and up-to-date experience.

    Mind you, a clever employer will find their way through most allegations of discrimination, provided one of their own employees who are party to the decision doesn't let the cat out of the bag.

  • It happens because by and large people are more likely to accept it. For example, if you are unfairly made redundant, it may suit you to just take the redundancy payoff and pension.

    If you are not selected for a job because you are too young, most people will accept that they don't have any (or sufficient) experience compared with other candidates - besides which, they don't want to be rejected by other employers who may not want to take on 'troublemakers' who use the employment tribunal system.

    It's quite difficult to prove age discrimination in many cases. If you are younger, you won't be able to meet requirements such as 'experienced' or 'highly skilled', for example, and if you are older, employers can say that they needed people with energy, flair and up-to-date experience.

    Mind you, a clever employer will find their way through most allegations of discrimination, provided one of their own employees who are party to the decision doesn't let the cat out of the bag.

    Shortly before I came out of management, an employment law was passed that insisted on employers keeping notes of the interview. For the last year or so I had to forward all my notes to the HR department, just in case. I spent more time worrying about what I had written, than I did listening to the candidate.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

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