Universal Basic Income. Should the government pay everyone £10,000?

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  • UBI limited pilot scheme starting in two UK locations soon.

    £1600 per month per person.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/j…lled-in-england

    I can't see it ending up that much, not if it is per person. This would mean the state pension rises by about £700 per month.

    The idea in principal is actually a very good idea, and can be paid for by removing the benefits system. It has to be enough JUST about to live on, as we can't afford for people to stop working. If people get top ups on top of this then it won't work

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • I can't see it ending up that much, not if it is per person. This would mean the state pension rises by about £700 per month.

    The idea in principal is actually a very good idea, and can be paid for by removing the benefits system. It has to be enough JUST about to live on, as we can't afford for people to stop working. If people get top ups on top of this then it won't work

    Why is it sensible to pay £1600 per month to the majority of us who don’t need it? Where’s the money coming from to pay for that when so many would then be disinclined to work?

    I’m sorry, but it’s a barmy idea - one that I would have expected Jeremy Corbyn to come up with while at the same time surrendering all our weapons to Russia as ‘an act of faith.’

  • Why is it sensible to pay £1600 per month to the majority of us who don’t need it? Where’s the money coming from to pay for that when so many would then be disinclined to work?

    I’m sorry, but it’s a barmy idea - one that I would have expected Jeremy Corbyn to come up with while at the same time surrendering all our weapons to Russia as ‘an act of faith.’

    I agree its a daft expensive idea

  • You will own nothing and be happy.


    When AI takes your job this is how you survive.

    Sadly this is the way things are going. The jobs are simply not out there anymore accept for low paid hospitality and gig work. This is the first step towards a social credit scheme. If AI continues on the path it's on then we really are all truly fucked. It will either be a winner in the sense that none of us ever have to work again or it will backfire on us and be the demise of humanity and the human race. We already have robots building robots and AI is the brain for these robots so we no longer have to program there. The AI developers don't even understand how AI works as it self teaches itself and makes decisions. As soon as we interfere to block something it learns, adapts and finds another way around.

  • Why is it sensible to pay £1600 per month to the majority of us who don’t need it? Where’s the money coming from to pay for that when so many would then be disinclined to work?

    I’m sorry, but it’s a barmy idea - one that I would have expected Jeremy Corbyn to come up with while at the same time surrendering all our weapons to Russia as ‘an act of faith.’

    It isn't a barmy idea, £16k is a barmy amount. I would say £12k is about right. In answer to your question "where is the money going to come from", we get from losing social welfare. No doll money, no top ups, no disability allowance etc etc. That also means we aren't employing the many thousands of people who have to sort all this out. Of course, the majority of people won't want to live on the £12k year, so will work. It may also be necessary to reconfigure the income tax system as well, but that's for another day. I don't think this is a matter of if this will happen, I believe it is when?

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • Sadly this is the way things are going. The jobs are simply not out there anymore accept for low paid hospitality and gig work. This is the first step towards a social credit scheme. If AI continues on the path it's on then we really are all truly fucked. It will either be a winner in the sense that none of us ever have to work again or it will backfire on us and be the demise of humanity and the human race. We already have robots building robots and AI is the brain for these robots so we no longer have to program there. The AI developers don't even understand how AI works as it self teaches itself and makes decisions. As soon as we interfere to block something it learns, adapts and finds another way around.

    But the jobs are out there, and they always will be. We will always need plumbers, electricians, drivers, warehouse staff, shop staff, solicitors, doctors, nurses, bin men etc etc. A universal basic income will ensure those who work will have a better quality of life, whilst those who don't will be able to survive. However, it will only work if we remove all other forms of social welfare

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • I agree its a daft expensive idea

    It's only daft and expensive if it's £16k. At £12k it is affordable and can be funded by getting rid of all other forms of social welfare.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • It's only daft and expensive if it's £16k. At £12k it is affordable and can be funded by getting rid of all other forms of social welfare.

    So tell me how you ensure that people dont make a lifetstyle choice to just accept whatever the figure is.

    Where would the incentive be to get work part or full time. It will become the scenario that those on the lower salaries will say " wtf should I work hard for the same amount some lazy tw@ can get for staying at home". Damn sure I would.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • It isn't a barmy idea, £16k is a barmy amount. I would say £12k is about right. In answer to your question "where is the money going to come from", we get from losing social welfare. No doll money, no top ups, no disability allowance etc etc. That also means we aren't employing the many thousands of people who have to sort all this out. Of course, the majority of people won't want to live on the £12k year, so will work. It may also be necessary to reconfigure the income tax system as well, but that's for another day. I don't think this is a matter of if this will happen, I believe it is when?

    There is no way on Earth that ceasing social security benefits will pay for this system! It is indeed absolutely barmy, a complete waste of resources and no sensible government will ever adopt this.

    I’ve never heard such ill-thought out nonsense in all my life.

    You can work out on the back of a fag packet that this idea could never work.

  • There is no way on Earth that ceasing social security benefits will pay for this system! It is indeed absolutely barmy, a complete waste of resources and no sensible government will ever adopt this.

    I’ve never heard such ill-thought out nonsense in all my life.

    You can work out on the back of a fag packet that this idea could never work.

    But it will. This includes everyone on a state pension, everyone on disability allowance, everyone getting any sort of child allowance, everyone on unemployment benefit, and anyone getting any type of top up. You then have to take into account the cost to the government of having a benefits system, which will no longer exist. Don't forget, when the UBI is added to a salary a lump of it will be returned to the government in the form of income tax.

    What's really good about it is that those who work will be better off, and pensioners will be better off, but the majority of people who claim benefits will be worse off.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • So tell me how you ensure that people dont make a lifetstyle choice to just accept whatever the figure is.

    Where would the incentive be to get work part or full time. It will become the scenario that those on the lower salaries will say " wtf should I work hard for the same amount some lazy tw@ can get for staying at home". Damn sure I would.

    At present those who choose not to work will get more than the £12k I propose (not £16k, that's silly), so that is a saving, NOT an additional cost.. Again, very few people who do not want to work will be better off with a good UBI system. Like I have said on other posts, it can be funded buy not having any state pensions, or benefits system, and the costs involved with administering a benefits system. The only problem I see with it is the thousands of people who will be worse off, and who will be stamping their feet, but sod them

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • Sounds almost as stupid as the unchecked billions in benefits they happily hand out to people making fraudulent claims year in year out.

    Our benefits system is a joke. They should get a grip of that and redirect the lost funds to those who actually need them before dreaming up other madcap schemes.

  • Sounds almost as stupid as the unchecked billions in benefits they happily hand out to people making fraudulent claims year in year out.

    Our benefits system is a joke. They should get a grip of that and redirect the lost funds to those who actually need them before dreaming up other madcap schemes.

    That's the point, UDI would stop the fraudulent claims, because there would be no claims. What's more, the total cost would be no greater, it would encourage people to work because they would be better off, and discourage the majority of people not to work because they would be worse off. It really is a win win situation. Like most of you, when I first heard about the system I thought it would be too expensive, but the more I have heard about it and thought about it, it's actually much better than what we have at present. The question is what the UDI payment woud be. The trial is £16k, which is absolutely bonkers, but I think £12k would be about right. This would also benefit pensioners as well as those who work. Of course, our present income tax system would have to be looked at of course.

    It would even change people's mindsets. For example, a woman who presently wants to pop out illegitimate children like they are going out of fashion, would think twice knowing her only income would be £12k pa unless she worked. I am sure you can think of other scenarios . Once again, this can only work if the government scarps all other forms of benefits

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • But it will. This includes everyone on a state pension, everyone on disability allowance, everyone getting any sort of child allowance, everyone on unemployment benefit, and anyone getting any type of top up. You then have to take into account the cost to the government of having a benefits system, which will no longer exist. Don't forget, when the UBI is added to a salary a lump of it will be returned to the government in the form of income tax.

    What's really good about it is that those who work will be better off, and pensioners will be better off, but the majority of people who claim benefits will be worse off.

    The sums don’t add up, Bibbles.

  • So tell me how you ensure that people dont make a lifetstyle choice to just accept whatever the figure is.

    Where would the incentive be to get work part or full time. It will become the scenario that those on the lower salaries will say " wtf should I work hard for the same amount some lazy tw@ can get for staying at home". Damn sure I would.

    Exactly why bother going out in all weathers to get to work pay your fares, when you stay at home and do nothing and get paid for it

  • That's the point, UDI would stop the fraudulent claims, because there would be no claims.

    I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that any gov't would seriously look to introduce a system that would put a fit healthy, well paid and asset rich individual in the same boat as a skint, sickly/disabled, asset free, unemployed single parent with half a dozen kids.

    To even contemplate it sounds like political suicide because the opposition parties, the media and pretty much every charity on the planet would

    be up in arms.

    I don't get the "have some free money because it'll encourage people to work" argument.

    Give me a 10-12k a year handout and I'd be looking to go from full time to part time almost immediately, so short of taxing the pants off me in some other way, how would the gov't fund such a scheme if overnight, the first thing people like me did was reduce the amount we're paying into the pot in the first place by reducing our hours?

  • I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that any gov't would seriously look to introduce a system that would put a fit healthy, well paid and asset rich individual in the same boat as a skint, sickly/disabled, asset free, unemployed single parent with half a dozen kids.

    To even contemplate it sounds like political suicide because the opposition parties, the media and pretty much every charity on the planet would

    be up in arms.

    I don't get the "have some free money because it'll encourage people to work" argument.

    Give me a 10-12k a year handout and I'd be looking to go from full time to part time almost immediately, so short of taxing the pants off me in some other way, how would the gov't fund such a scheme if overnight, the first thing people like me did was reduce the amount we're paying into the pot in the first place by reducing our hours?

    Exactly help and look after people that are unwell, disabled, elderly that IMO is what the Welfare State is for not to pay fit and well people to stay at home

  • The sad thing is that those who are honest, unwell and / or disabled more often than not get screwed over by the the benefits system, especially PIP, and those that are playing the game, dishonest, working on the side, claiming benefits etc more often than not get away with it. The system can actually turn an honest person into a dishonest person. You have to learn to play the game.

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