Boris promises Buy British policy and State Aid

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  • Thanks for this link, I'll come back to this tomorrow.

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  • "Boris Johnson's promises a 'buy British' rule after Britain finally leaves the EU and rules out a fuel duty increase to boost businesses after Brexit"

    Wow! A sensible suggestion from a politician! The UK has been too eager in following EU rules. The most ridiculous was production of UK passports in the EU. We should have demanded that production remained in the UK on grounds of national security, as other EU countries do.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Wow! A sensible suggestion from a politician! The UK has been too eager in following EU rules. The most ridiculous was production of UK passports in the EU. We should have demanded that production remained in the UK on grounds of national security, as other EU countries do.

    It's called the "Free Market" so beloved by the Tories, usually :)

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Not sure what to make of this policy, will need to read up further as that Mail article is short on detail, but Boris is saying on one hand he won't harm free trade and yet is promising this policy and a whole bucket full of state subsidies to boot.


    Remind me someone, is he a conservative?


    bryanluc I created this new thread out of your post and replies.

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  • Personally, I've never seen the logic of governments outsourcing shipbuilding etc. to other countries, while our shipyards are closed and thousands of people made redundant.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Personally, I've never seen the logic of governments outsourcing shipbuilding etc. to other countries, while our shipyards are closed and thousands of people made redundant.

    Again it's the free market economy, the purchaser taking the best value and cheapest option. You either have that or Labours way of nationalising or subsidising industry to secure jobs

    This is post Thatcher hard right Toryism, Ted Heath's centre Tories intervened - British Leyland for example

    The choice is quite simple, you either goon subsidising something like British Steel and producing piles of steel that nobody wants or can afford to buy, or you don't

    Classic was the coal mines

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Again it's the free market economy, the purchaser taking the best value and cheapest option. You either have that or Labours way of nationalising or subsidising industry to secure jobs

    What is cheapest in the short term may not be the cheapest in the long term. Giving contracts to UK companies is not the same as nationalisation or providing state subsidies, as the contract for producing UK passports amply demonstrated.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • What is cheapest in the short term may not be the cheapest in the long term. Giving contracts to UK companies is not the same as nationalisation or providing state subsidies, as the contract for producing UK passports amply demonstrated.

    This is the argument that the socialists use

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Boris said he would ensure that the public sector buys British. What happens if a non-British product is cheaper or, for the same price, is better made? Is this Boris's idea of levelling up? Will a Union Jack Made in Britain sticker on a train or bus that is noisy, uncomfortable and keeps breaking down be enough of a consolation for British citizens who occasionally go abroad and wonder why a foreign country's public services and infrastructure makes ours look and perform second rate?


    Admittedly, the invitation to tender can be to a tight specification but there are quality factors such as design, comfort, quality control, durability etc that are difficult to pin down as a measurable specification.


    Samuel Johnson said "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". I'm sure Boris Johnson is no relation to Samuel! I'm also sure the workers at British Leyland were patriotic to a fault. I'm also sure that was a major reason if not the root cause of why British Leyland closed down.







    2)

  • You talk as if all British companies produce sub standard products. We are past the days of unions ruling the country (for now). I am against nationalisation and their employees having the power to screw over the tax payers who pay their wages, but some things SHOULD be produced in the UK, and we should make sure we have some steel works, shipyards, etc. and not be totally reliant on foreign imports.


    Also, essential services should not be sold to foreign companies, especially companies that are owned by foreign governments.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Personally, I've never seen the logic of governments outsourcing shipbuilding etc. to other countries, while our shipyards are closed and thousands of people made redundant.

    Michael Portillo made a similar argument on This Week a few years ago, but much broader though, in regards to conservative policy towards The North in the 80s. He was basically saying it was better to have people in work, better for their health etc, better for the economy and subsides some industries, rather than shutting them all down, which in effect destroyed many northern towns.

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  • Also, essential services should not be sold to foreign companies, especially companies that are owned by foreign governments.

    I see no reason why British taxpayers should subsidise French and German State companies who control most of our infrastructure now and the worst example of UK PLC selling our golden assets that I can think of, was the selling of ARM (the makers of mobile phone chips) being sold to Japan's Softbank. The worst move ever.


    But, we have to remember why we have no car industry of our own now and that's because our British made cars were total crap compared to German or Japanese models.


    Boris said he would ensure that the public sector buys British. What happens if a non-British product is cheaper or, for the same price, is better made? Is this Boris's idea of levelling up? Will a Union Jack Made in Britain sticker on a train or bus that is noisy, uncomfortable and keeps breaking down be enough of a consolation for British citizens who occasionally go abroad and wonder why a foreign country's public services and infrastructure makes ours look and perform second rate?


    Admittedly, the invitation to tender can be to a tight specification but there are quality factors such as design, comfort, quality control, durability etc that are difficult to pin down as a measurable specification.


    Samuel Johnson said "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". I'm sure Boris Johnson is no relation to Samuel! I'm also sure the workers at British Leyland were patriotic to a fault. I'm also sure that was a major reason if not the root cause of why British Leyland closed down.

    From the top of my head, I think all buses and trains running in the UK are made by foreign owned firms. I would not want to go back to British Leyland days at all. But the reality is, the supply train to make manufactured goods is global and I doubt that will change now. So any British made goods, will still have parts from elsewhere.


    I think Boris has a lot to explain here, so I'll reserve judgment until I know more.

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  • ARM (the makers of mobile phone chips)

    ARM didn't make the chips, they licensed other companies, many foreign and based abroad, to use the technology.


    Current project I'm working on uses an ARM processor made by ST micro. (Siemens Thompson, German based)

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • What is cheapest in the short term may not be the cheapest in the long term.

    And it all depends on what "cheap" means. If it means whole towns left in unemployment with failing health, putting a burden on the NHS, that is not cheap on the country as a whole.


    I really am on the fence on this, Boris needs to explain himself, which would be a first if he did.

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  • ARM didn't make the chips, they licensed other companies, many foreign and based abroad, to use the technology.


    Current project I'm working on uses an ARM processor made by ST micro. (Siemens Thompson, German based)

    Thanks for the correction. They were pure software, I should have said that, I did know.

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  • Other industries were overtaken by newer methods of manufacture, a classic example was ship building: While we were still laying down keels and building up from that, the Koreans were building using modular construction which was faster, cheaper and more accurate. Both management and unions couldn't embrace that.


    Same went for BL. The constant disputes over trivial things meant the company never had the money to invest in new models so most of the smaller were based on warmed over mini mechanics.


    That's not to say we can't manufacture product: The area I work in, industrial instrumentation, we are world leading.


    Where UK sources are competitive we should support our own manufacturing base.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • I posted in the defence forum some time ago that the UK will buy some German military vehicles called Boxers. And they're made by the same modular construction method and usage as you describe Heero. You can take the tops of the vehicles and change a infantry carrier into a ambulance, as but one example. The same thing will happen with the new batch of Type 26/31 ships we're making. All modular.


    Sometimes the foreigners do come up with good ideas and we need to be careful going back to the 70s.

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  • Harold Wilson had a "Buy British" policy back in the 70s

    Being patriotic I bought a brand new Mini, drove it home to the derision of my neighbours who had all bought Renaults and parked on my drive

    Next morning it would not start. Phoned the garage, "oh yes we're having a bit of trouble with them, bring it in" so my kindly neighbour towed me in with his Renault

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • TBQH I drive a Japanese car these days (Mitsubishi Colt) Always starts first time, lovely drive and passes its MOT with flying colours.


    I was a fan of the Metro just because it was a nice looking, to me, car. My first had endless electrical problems, the second (Turbo) ate gearboxes. Only the last one, a GTi 16v with all new mechanics, proved reliable. Too little, too late.:(

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • Our family were mini mad. Dad had a blue mini van, Mum had a white mini car, my sister had a red mini car. We could almost have re-run the Italian job. I was too young to drive a car, so I bought a blue 90cc Vespa Supersprint just before my 16th birthday, and had the union flag put on the side blisters. Supersprints were a type of cross between a scooter and a motorbike. I rode to work in Leeds each day, and once I passed my test my mate rode pillion as she worked in Leeds too. We went all over the country on that bike. Great days.


    My first serious boyfriend (now my hubbie) had a mini car which he had modified for rallying. They were the best car ever (in their day) and I am proud they were British ... and they are still an icon throughout the world.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • I'm tiny, so perhaps my first car, if I ever learn to drive, should be a mini:), but.... the Japanese tend to make the most reliable cars out there, so would probably go with that, even though I live in the Ford heartlands as they used to called in my area.

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  • I have had Japanese cars since the 70s, and now have a Mazda

    All of them very reliable, economical on petrol and parts. Neighbour has a Nissan made in the North East, he has had no end of problems

    I will never buy British again

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Again it's the free market economy, the purchaser taking the best value and cheapest option. You either have that or Labours way of nationalising or subsidising industry to secure jobs

    This is post Thatcher hard right Toryism, Ted Heath's centre Tories intervened - British Leyland for example

    The choice is quite simple, you either goon subsidising something like British Steel and producing piles of steel that nobody wants or can afford to buy, or you don't

    Classic was the coal mines

    You have to look at the reasons why British manufacturers are so expensive and deal with them. For example H&S legislation, employment law and environmental law all kill us in the UK.

  • The core companies that were merged to form BL were all sound. Just look at the classic car market to see the love for these brands. It was crap management, socialism and trade unions that killed BL, plus of course their products were shit.

  • TBQH I drive a Japanese car these days (Mitsubishi Colt) Always starts first time, lovely drive and passes its MOT with flying colours.


    I was a fan of the Metro just because it was a nice looking, to me, car. My first had endless electrical problems, the second (Turbo) ate gearboxes. Only the last one, a GTi 16v with all new mechanics, proved reliable. Too little, too late.:(

    No proper car person would touch BL they were shite.

  • You have to look at the reasons why British manufacturers are so expensive and deal with them. For example H&S legislation, employment law and environmental law all kill us in the UK.

    I think that management has a huge responsibility as well. It can work, look at Nissan in the NE producing a faultless car at a good price using Japanese processes and worker/management heavy involvement in running the place

    I think I'm right in saying that unions are not allowed

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • You are correct unions are not allowed. But the whole operation only exists because of restrictions placed on Japanese car imports in the 80’s. Now these have been lifted as a result of the new EU/Japan free trade agreement there is going to be the temptation for the Japanese to repatriate their jobs as Honda are doing at Swindon.

  • Would a Nissan car count as British if its made here, but using Japanese practices?

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