Russian ex spies attacked on British streets

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  • A man who is critically ill after being exposed to an unknown substance in Wiltshire is a Russian national convicted of spying for Britain, the BBC understands.

    Sergei Skripal, 66, was granted refuge in the UK following a "spy swap" between the US and Russia in 2010.

    Looks like Putin is at again and another former Russian spy who turned sides and gave information to Britain will likely die soon. Alexander Litvinenko, the most high profile Russian turncoat, was killed in similar circumstances after Russian agents irradiated half of London with their poison.


    Perhaps these people are being killed off because they have been critical of Putin, but I suspect the fact that they became double agents passing information to Britain is the reason for the attacks on them.


    Should we just stand for this and allow Putin to murder people at will on British streets, or perhaps you may think its just a internal Russian matter, so who cares? But these people did work for Britain in the end and provided this country with valuable information. Shouldn't they be afforded some degree of protection against Putin's henchmen?

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  • The UK would respond "robustly" to any evidence of Russian involvement in the collapse of former spy Sergei Skripal, Boris Johnson has said.

    Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, are critically ill in hospital after being found unconscious in Salisbury, Wiltshire.

    The foreign secretary said he was not pointing fingers at this stage, but described Russia as "a malign and disruptive force".

    Russia has denied any involvement.

    Boris went on to say that if evidence does point to Russian state involvement that he would consider moves like withdrawing England from the World Cup. Of course, if Boris had actually bothered to read his briefing papers, he would've known that the government has no control over such things, its the sporting bodies that decide that stuff.


    I'm sure Putin is quacking in his shoes at the thought of England not playing football in his country, but one thing I did notice today from coverage from Westminster, was that many MPs, including from the Labour benches, were very hostile against Putin. Many of them said that the only thing the Russians respect is force.

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  • Counter-terrorism officers are working to uncover the origin of the nerve agent used in the attempted murder of ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, in Salisbury.

    The pair were found unconscious and are critically ill in hospital, along with a police officer who went to their aid.

    A source told BBC News the chemical used on Sunday was likely to be rarer than Sarin or VX nerve agents.

    As the police confirmed yesterday that a nerve agent was used, its nauseating that the Russians are denying any involvement. It's not as if you can buy a nerve agent off the supermarket shelves, is it?


    What should the UK's response be to this Russian aggression?

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  • What should the UK's response be to this Russian aggression?

    Be very sure of the facts first. There is speculation in some quarters that the nerve agent was actually bought into the UK by the daughter disgused as a gift. From whom is not known.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • That's interesting, Heero. Perhaps Putin paid her to bump off her old man. Nothing would surprise me with the Russians.


    Edit: Ahh, I see that the story came from The Sun. It said that the daughter may have unknowingly unleashed the nerve agent in a restaurant after opening a present from "friends."


    Clever. Very clever. But it's still a nerve agent, so who else other than a State could produce such a thing?

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  • An American analyst on Russian affairs behind America's Magnitsky Act just made a interesting comment on the BBC's Daily Politics. He said that the attack might be because Putin is running out of money and wants to keep all his agents in line. By taking out this ex Russian agent and his family, it will scare all Putin's henchmen into line and keeps them on his toes.


    He went on to say that the way to go after Putin is to go after his money. Tons of Russian oligarch money is in London property and assets and to seize that would hurt Putin and his inner circle, was the suggestion given by the American. He said that Putin doesn't care about human life, but he does care about money. More sanctions would help too, to keep the squeeze on Russia.

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  • That's interesting, Heero. Perhaps Putin paid her to bump off her old man. Nothing would surprise me with the Russians.


    Edit: Ahh, I see that the story came from The Sun. It said that the daughter may have unknowingly unleashed the nerve agent in a restaurant after opening a present from "friends."


    Clever. Very clever. But it's still a nerve agent, so who else other than a State could produce such a thing?

    Likely to be a state, but which one? After all, he may have been a Russian intelligence officer, but he went on to spy for UK and was swapped via USA. They may all have had reasons to 'get rid'.



    In addition, I keep hearing it said that he would have been more likely to be left alone if he were no longer active. So, which of the three was he 'active' for? and what if it wasn't a state, but maybe international crime, connected to some drug empire, with a very powerful lab somewhere?



    All very much still up in the air.

  • Likely to be a state, but which one? After all, he may have been a Russian intelligence officer, but he went on to spy for UK and was swapped via USA. They may all have had reasons to 'get rid'.

    Well, it if were us, we wouldn't kill him by potentially affecting hundreds of other people with a nerve agent and I hope the Americans wouldn't do that either. So that really only leaves Russia, NK and perhaps one or two others.


    In addition, I keep hearing it said that he would have been more likely to be left alone if he were no longer active. So, which of the three was he 'active' for? and what if it wasn't a state, but maybe international crime, connected to some drug empire, with a very powerful lab somewhere?

    All very much still up in the air.

    I agree, supposedly he had connections to current cyber security operations, so he is anything but a ex-spy, but who indeed are his paymasters. As you say, it could be criminal gangs, but what is the difference between Putin's regime and a criminal gang? His whole regime is a gangster outfit that makes the Mafia look like small fry.

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  • May has promised a robust response if Russian cannot explain how a nerve agent it produced ended up on Britain's streets, but how robust should we be?


    What are the UK's options here?


    Military? Diplomatic? Financial? Something else?

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  • Military action against Russia would be extremely foolish and shouldn't even be considered.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Military action against Russia would be extremely foolish and shouldn't even be considered.

    Quite. That would be madness. The only realistic course of action is to threaten the money of Putin's gang and the oligarcs that's currently in London. Even then ther's the possibility of collateral damage to our own economy.


    There's all that gas that the UK and the EU need piped from Russia. If that tap was turned off we'll seriously regret not getting fracking here. 40% of all our gas is imported.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • Military action against Russia would be extremely foolish and shouldn't even be considered.

    What about taking them on in Crimea or somewhere like Syria? That way, they can't claim they risk being invaded and might use nukes as a result.


    Quite. That would be madness. The only realistic course of action is to threaten the money of Putin's gang and the oligarcs that's currently in London. Even then ther's the possibility of collateral damage to our own economy.


    There's all that gas that the UK and the EU need piped from Russia. If that tap was turned off we'll seriously regret not getting fracking here. 40% of all our gas is imported.

    On the gas, we get very little from Russia, although as we almost had gas shortages last week, so I guess that could change at any time. The Eastern European countries and now Germany are very reliant on Russian gas, especially since the Germans switched off all their nuclear reactors.


    I think going after the money is the way to go. First of all prevent the oligarchs getting access to their money and then preventing them using the international banking systems, so they can't move that money around. That will get the Russians' attention!


    Half of London's prime property is now owned by three groups: the Chinese, the Arabs and the Russians. All those Russian owned mansions in Chelsea could be seized as a first measure. I'm sure the oligarchs would have something to say to Putin about that.:)

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  • What about taking them on in Crimea or somewhere like Syria? That way, they can't claim they risk being invaded and might use nukes as a result.

    No, to any military action against Russia as far as I am concerned.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • No, to any military action against Russia as far as I am concerned.

    It's probably the most sensible thing, Ron, but I have a thing about bullies as I have a very long experience of them of various kinds and I think all bullies need to be confronted. I think your view though, is probably the one shared by the majority.

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  • Just heard on the news which I've got on in the background, some other Russian in this country has been found dead...

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  • The UK has called for an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council to discuss the poisoning of a former double agent in Salisbury, the Foreign Office says.

    Russia failed to respond to a midnight deadline set by Theresa May to explain how a Russian-made nerve agent was used on Sergei Skripal and daughter Yulia.

    The PM is set to announce a series of measures against Russia ahead the UN meeting, expected this evening.

    May is currently doing PMQs and she will make a statement about Russia in the Commons at around 12.45pm.


    We're about to here from May what measures she intends to take against Russia, but as she has called this meeting of the UN, should she ask the UN to expel Russia from the security council due to it's repeated aggressive measures against this country and others?

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  • 23 Russian diplomats who have been identified as potential spies to be expelled.

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  • The UK will expel 23 Russian diplomats after Moscow refused to explain how a Russian-made nerve agent was used on a former spy in Salisbury, the PM says.


    Theresa May said the diplomats, who have a week to leave, were identified as "undeclared intelligence officers".

    The UK later told the UN Security Council that Russia had used "a weapon so horrific that it is banned in war" in a "peaceful" British city.

    What do people think about our reaction to the attack?


    All very well chucking out some of their people, but what about going after their assets? That would harm Putin.


    I watched the coverage from the UN last night and our ambassador really socked it to the Russians including reading out to the security council Putin's infamous "pieces of silver" comment he made a few years ago when he said he will kill traitors whether they are.


    The Russian ambassador to the UN was a idiot, even suggesting that the Met didn't know what they were doing and they needed someone like Sherlock Holmes to help them. The Russians are just taking the piss out of us. As various commentators have said, this is the first time that a chemical weapon has been used in Europe since WW2.

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  • The leaders of France, Germany, the US and UK say there is "no plausible alternative explanation" to Russia having been behind the nerve agent attack in the UK.

    They condemned the "first offensive use of a nerve agent in Europe since the Second World War", calling it an assault on UK sovereignty.

    Russia has underestimated the "resolve and unity" of the UK's allies, the head of Nato has said after the nerve agent attack on an ex-spy and his daughter.

    Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Nato was undergoing its biggest strengthening of collective defence since the end of the Cold War.

    Well, despite Brexit, we do still have some allies on this issue. As the other countries know, Putin could start bumping off spies in their countries using radio active toxins or nerve agents.


    Russia has said they will expel some British diplomats, but not said how many yet. So far the Russians are still totally dismissive off what they've done. I wonder if we kill some people on their territory using radio active or chemical weapons, whether they'd still be smirking then.

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  • There still isn't evidence that Putin's Russia is responsible. Also, it doesn't make political sense from Russia's standpoint. It could be a breakaway renegade group in Russia (or an adjacent state with a grievance - although for what reason I'm not sure. Looking further afield, would North Korea want to prove to the West that there are worst countries than itself?


    Why should Russia respond at all to Britain's bellicose but unproven accusation? How does a country or a person respond to such as accusation if they innocent. How can one prove a negative?


    It doesn't help that Russia has always played its cards close to its chest. Their lack of response is disappointing and grounds for suspicion. Perhaps if Britain held back on it's over-excitable nonsensical position, of guilty until proven innocent, Russia might respond more helpfully. For example, would it help if an independent chemist rather than one from Russia or Britain, was commissioned to analyse the exact type of nerve gas. But then again, it could be Russian-made but sold on or stolen by some rogue country. So perhaps an independent chemical analysis will take us nowhere.


    The EU fully supports Britain's position. So what? Just wait for EU decision on how to demonstrate that support. But don't hold your breath


    Britain overreacts to everything. Our country ought to be renamed Tunbridge Wells. Action with minimum words is Cool Britannia . Huffing & puffing in Parliament, in newspapers or in front of a TV camera makes Russia look cool and Britain look uncool if not downright manic. Threatening to evacuate a few surplus-to-need British diplomats from Moscow and a few surplus-to-need Russian diplomats from London is an empty gesture - but Britain has always been famous for half measures.

  • But then again, it could be Russian-made but sold on or stolen by some rogue country.

    Exactly, isn't one of the things so called spy agencies do is infiltrate and steal stuff form other countries?

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • There still isn't evidence that Putin's Russia is responsible.

    The spy wasn't attacked with a knife or gun, something anyone can get hold of, he was attacked by a military grade nerve agent. Only a country has those and in the case of this nerve agent, only one country: Russia.


    Exactly, isn't one of the things so called spy agencies do is infiltrate and steal stuff form other countries?

    If that were the case, then the stuff would've gotten into the hands of terrorists by now. The fact we've not had any terrorist attacks using nerve agents, suggests to me that no stuff has got nicked or gone walkies by any other method.

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  • Russia is to expel 23 British diplomats amid tensions over the nerve agent attack on an ex-spy and his daughter in the UK.


    The move comes in response to Britain's decision to expel 23 Russian diplomats.

    They were ordered to leave over the incident in Salisbury which the UK government has blamed on Russia.

    May has been waiting for that before she announced her next set of actions. Hopefully she'll go after some Russian money now.

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  • Only a country has those and in the case of this nerve agent, only one country: Russia.


    The fact we've not had any terrorist attacks using nerve agents, suggests to me that no stuff has got nicked or gone walkies by any other method.

    You call this evidence?

  • The evidence is the dying Russian and his daughter in hospital. The evidence is the substance spread over half of Salisbury. The evidence is Putin's own comments a few years ago about killing traitors. The evidence is the ex-Russian chemists who produced this nerve agent saying Russia is responsible and naming the lab where it was made.


    How much more evidence do you need?

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  • Just seems a bit amateurish that someone wanting to kill someone would use something that could be so easily traced back to them in my opinion.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • The other guy Ron, they just strangled. So it'll be almost impossible to link his murder to the Russians.

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  • That's what I mean there are plenty of ways to kill someone so that it can't be traced, so why choose a method that can be so easily traced back, unless they wanted it to be or someone else wanted it to be?

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Russia's EU ambassador has suggested a UK research laboratory could be the source of the nerve agent used in the attack on an ex-spy and his daughter.

    Vladimir Chizhov told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show Russia had "nothing to do" with the poisoning in Salisbury of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

    He said Russia did not stockpile the poison and that the Porton Down lab was only eight miles (12km) from the city.

    The Russians have really dug a big hole for themselves here and I hope we'll be able to push them in it.


    Only the other day they denied ever producing this nerve agent. All we need to do is to tell the OPW the location of the Russian lab where the nerve agent was made and we've got them, because the Russians will not allow inspectors to poke around that facility, at least not until all the evidence is completely removed.

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  • I just hope the UK government are not relying on the same sort of information that said Saddam Hussain had WMDs that could target the UK in seconds. :D

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.