Russian ex spies attacked on British streets

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  • Without turning into a thread about Iraq, but I agree. MI6 should never have allowed Alastair Campbell to sex up that document to meet Blair's requirements. How they got away with that, I never know.


    And actually the dodgy dossier is directly relevant here for another reason too, because the Russians used that against us at the security council meeting either earlier this week, or last week.


    This is the reason why Putin will come unstuck by all his actions and lies at some point. Once you start lying, you have to keep weaving the web of lies until you get caught up in your own web and can't escape. Putin is gradually being backed into a corner, I wonder what happens when he is fully trapped in it?

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  • Putin has the uncanny knack of throwing a rock into the pond, watching the ripples and sitting back with a smirk on his face.

    Just look at US elections debacle. He considers himself untouchable now and having won yet another election, he'll continue to interfere in other sovereign states' internal and not so internal affairs with impunity.

  • Without turning into a thread about Iraq, but I agree. MI6 should never have allowed Alastair Campbell to sex up that document to meet Blair's requirements. How they got away with that, I never know.

    The Iraq war would have happened regardless of who was in power at the time and all politicians have people that are capable of "sexing" things up to pursue their own agenda.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • I agree about the Iraq war. George W would've attacked regardless, but a press secretary should not have been allowed to "sex up" intelligence documents, in fact Campbell shouldn't have been allowed to see them at all. That's all Blair's doing.

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  • We turned him Ron, so he worked for us, but as I said before, it is inconceivable our own people would kill him on our streets especially using such a dangerous method.

    Such a dangerous method that the only other person seriously affected was from 'CID' and possibly tailing them for 'our' state's purposes.

  • And they failed to kill them PM, but the spy and his daughter will be disabled for life now.


    I'm sure if Putin wishes to send messages next time, perhaps he might use more traditional methods to kill his enemies.

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  • Yulia Skripal, the poisoned daughter of Russian ex-spy Sergei, has been discharged from hospital.

    The 33-year-old left Salisbury District Hospital on Monday and has been taken to a secure location.

    The hospital said: "This is not the end of her treatment but marks a significant milestone."

    The Russians are saying she is being held hostage, but she feels so under threat from the UK that Sky News has just reported that she is requesting asylum from us. The Russians are calling this a adduction.

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  • Russian intelligence agencies targeted poison victim Yulia Skripal's email account as early as 2013, the UK's national security adviser has said.

    In a letter to Nato, Sir Mark Sedwill also said Russia trained "special units" to use nerve agents, including applying them to door handles.

    Police said a nerve agent was found on Yulia's father Sergei Skripal's front door in Salisbury.

    The UK has called a meeting of the security council next week, but this seems as decisive to me, as possible and not a single dodgy dossier in sight.

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  • The UK has called a meeting of the security council next week, but this seems as decisive to me, as possible and not a single dodgy dossier in sight.

    Maybe your tory bias blinkers are preventing you from seeing them. :P:D

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • I can't post a bit of the article as its subscription only, but The Daily Telegraph has said it has identified suspects in the nerve agent attack and by looking at flight manifests. The article says that the manifests have identified some people and all roads lead back to these same people who are now back in Russia.

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  • A Russian scientist was mowed down by a car near his house days after he claimed to have helped develop the nerve agent that almost killed the Skripals.

    Vladimir Uglev was rushed to hospital in his hometown of Anapa on the Black Sea after he was struck while walking over a pedestrian crossing on Tuesday.

    Amazing how lots of key people in Russia have accidents if they go against the status quo, the quo being Putin.

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  • Is this still rumbling on, well quite frankly I am done with it, I have posted this to remind myself just in case I have the urge to have a brainfart over it, hopefully It will put me off.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • Fair enough, Ron!^^


    There was a do-dah at the UN last week over all of this Ron, but I missed all of it, hence no updates in this thread. But I don't think anything came of it. I was cleaning my garage, no nerve agents in there, just mouse droppings!


    But as for the residents of Salisbury, this will "rumble" on for many months, as scientists try and remove all traces of this nerve agent from their town.

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  • The UK has been accused of turning a "blind eye" to Russia's "dirty money", putting national security at risk.


    The Commons foreign affairs committee said London was being used to hide the "corrupt assets" of President Vladimir Putin and his allies.


    The UK's "lethargic response is being taken as proof that we don't dare stop them... London's markets are enabling the Kremlin's efforts," committee chairman and Conservative MP Tom Tugendhat wrote in the Sunday Times, ahead of the publication of the report.

    Things may have quite downed after all the "excitement" over the poisoning and diplomat expulsions, but as the Russian embassy in London tweeted just after the poisoning attack, it's "business as usual."


    Why is is business as usual for Putin and his chums to hide and launder their dirty money in this country? Why isn't this stopped?

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  • Things may have quite downed after all the "excitement" over the poisoning and diplomat expulsions, but as the Russian embassy in London tweeted just after the poisoning attack, it's "business as usual."


    Why is is business as usual for Putin and his chums to hide and launder their dirty money in this country? Why isn't this stopped?

    Probably because someone with influence is gaining from it in some way!

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • We let the Russians use nuclear and biological weapons on our streets and let them keep their ill gotten gains here to boot. We might as well just bend over to them now at this rate.

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  • I am maybe naive, but I can see no reason to keep Russian criminals sweet. The 'powers that be' should get proof of their criminal activity, and then kick them out after seizing their assets.


    The lack of such action leads me to believe they are useful in some way, to somebody, but what it may be, escapes me!

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Because the main scumbag in-chief is Putin himself and the others all all his cronies, the oligarchs, who've stolen all the Russian wealth for themselves. It seems this country is subservient to them for some reason. Perhaps a few backhanders changing forth somewhere...?

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  • Police have launched a murder inquiry after a woman exposed to nerve agent Novichok in Wiltshire died.

    Dawn Sturgess, 44, died in hospital on Sunday evening after falling critically ill on 30 June.

    Charlie Rowley, 45, who was also exposed to the nerve agent in Amesbury, remains critically ill in hospital.

    Theresa May said she was "appalled and shocked" by the death, which comes after the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury.

    Just when we thought the story about the Russian spy poisoning was behind us, this happened last week.


    What on earth is going on?


    Either this is a new attack by Putin, or despite assurances to the contrary, this nerve agent is still loose in the Salisbury area. Neither option is good.


    Good job we never helped Putin's PR by going to the world cup, isn't it...?:rolleyes:

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  • The US is to impose sanctions on Russia after determining that it used nerve agent against former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, in the UK in March.

    The move was announced on Wednesday by the US state department.

    Sergei and Yulia Skripal were found unconscious on a bench in the city of Salisbury, England, on 4 March.

    The story continues....


    And after 90 days, if the Russians don't allow certain sites to be inspected, the Americans will impose far more draconian financial sanctions. The ones that will really bite. Putin might finally get pushback for all his evil actions, fat last.


    Things are heating up on the world stage with this, trade and South China Seas tension with China, NK and the scraping of the Iran deal.

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  • I still struggle for a motive here: What possible advantage to the Russians is there in poisoning a small time spy from years ago, that is no threat, just before hosting the World Cup when they know that the West will totally overreact. It makes no sense to me.


    A conspiracy by western security services to "get" Russia for their actions in Ukraine and Syria since military action is out seems to me much more likely and it has succeeded. The immediate condemnation of Russia by the UK government even before the actual nerve agent was identified and the location of the "attack" within spitting distance of an establishment where the agent could be manufactured all shores up a conspiracy IMHO.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • I'm not so sure, Heero. Russia has 'form' for terminating the lives of spies who forsake Russia.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Russia has 'form' for terminating the lives of spies who forsake Russia.

    Agreed about Markov and Litvinenko. There was no other credible reason. I just feel that this time it's different with the world situation as it is.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • I'm not so sure, Heero. Russia has 'form' for terminating the lives of spies who forsake Russia.


    I still struggle for a motive here: What possible advantage to the Russians is there in poisoning a small time spy from years ago, that is no threat, just before hosting the World Cup when they know that the West will totally overreact. It makes no sense to me.


    A conspiracy by western security services to "get" Russia for their actions in Ukraine and Syria since military action is out seems to me much more likely and it has succeeded. The immediate condemnation of Russia by the UK government even before the actual nerve agent was identified and the location of the "attack" within spitting distance of an establishment where the agent could be manufactured all shores up a conspiracy IMHO.

    We live in a dishonest unscrupulous world and the media is more than content to fan the flames of unsupportable accusations. I share your conclusions and your logical reasoning.


    By the way, I've always had an allergy or irritation with TLA's and FLA's, especially some sweet but silly lady I know who refuses to accept that LOL does NOT mean lots of love.


    But your IMHO really takes the biscuit. Because


    O: the difference between a fact and an opinion is usually obvious. It would be weird to know a fact, conceal it and masquerade it as a personal opinion.


    M: why would I think it's someone else's opinion rather than yours, unless you said so or were a professional shill?


    H: Why would I think it's a dishonest opinion. Actually, when people start off a sentence with "to be perfectly honest ...." they're usually about to lie!

  • I still struggle for a motive here: What possible advantage to the Russians is there in poisoning a small time spy from years ago, that is no threat, just before hosting the World Cup when they know that the West will totally overreact. It makes no sense to me.


    A conspiracy by western security services to "get" Russia for their actions in Ukraine and Syria since military action is out seems to me much more likely and it has succeeded. The immediate condemnation of Russia by the UK government even before the actual nerve agent was identified and the location of the "attack" within spitting distance of an establishment where the agent could be manufactured all shores up a conspiracy IMHO.

    No, no, no... There's no conspiracy theories here, just another evil, weak man who wants to take over the world.


    Firstly, Putin wants to send a message to his own people that if they ever betray him, they'll be in trouble, but it's also a probe of us and America's and NATO's response.


    A bit like a group of bees or wasps, they generally will not sting you straight away if you get close to their hive, but you'll get warnings from them. This is what Putin is doing. He is probing what, if any, our response will be to these chemical and radiological attacks and attacks they are.


    Don't forget after all the death and destruction in Ukraine, including that airline being shot down. The west's response was zero, likewise all the death he's created in Syria. He's probing how weak or strong we are. And the American response yesterday with their sanctions, will finally after the 90- day period, tell him that we will not sit back and let him do what he wants.


    There was a interview he gave several years ago which is on youtube, I'll try and dig it up later if I remember. In that interview he said that if he can't control the countries he wants to control, he will cause chaos instead. He has done exactly what he's said he will do and if we're not careful, we'll be the next Ukraine, although I suspect the Balkan countries will get his "attentions" first. But they're not having chemical and radiological attacks, we are.

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  • But your IMHO really takes the biscuit. Because

    At first you said you agreed with him, then seem to contract yourself. Which is it? :/


    Do you believe Russia is responsible for these attacks or not?

    I'm not so sure, Heero. Russia has 'form' for terminating the lives of spies who forsake Russia.

    Indeed. Many people who oppose Putin seem to die, including "falling" off bridges right next to the Kremlin.

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  • At first you said you agreed with him, then seem to contract yourself. Which is it? :/


    Do you believe Russia is responsible for these attacks or not?

    Indeed. Many people who oppose Putin seem to die, including "falling" off bridges right next to the Kremlin.

    Where's the contradiction? I can't believe you didn't understand that the IMHO thing is just a personal rant and entirely unconnected my agreement with Hero Yuy's suspicion that Russia is NOT responsible for these attacks


    But I agree with you too! Putin is a creepy charmless ruthless guy and he and his cronies seem to deny everything. And I'm sure Russia has a long arm/tentacle when it comes to exacting revenge in order to keep in line those other Russians who might be thinking of treason or betrayal (just like the EU but with the killing bit!)


    All I know is this: no one is producing evidence. We in Britain didn't produce evidence with the Salisbury phase 1 poisoning and other countries fell in line but no-one said the evidence is iron-clad or incontrovertible, indeed, no one said what the evidence actually was that pointed the finger at Russia. Preserving security as an excuse for not producing the evidence is lame; such evidence could always be presented to a senior judge in-camera


    As for America belatedly joining the Salisbury lynch mob, it's as phoney as a 3-dollar bill. Again, no evidence. Just any excuse to enact sanctions as a way of resuming their cold war commie fixation, especially to try and get even for three humiliations:


    1) that Putin's Russia lanced the boil in Syria by applying militarily ruthless reality politics while America, Europe and the UN just sat on the fence, taking photographs and wringing their trembling hands.


    2) that Trump became president and the anti-Trump mob, and Democrat media, and CIA and FBI, and those who bankrolled Hilary Clinton, cannot come to terms with the fact that Trump won rather than stole the presidency and that his unpresidential style - where substance trumps dignity (sic) - is very much part of his success


    3) that Mueller can't bring down Trump (ask Alan Dershowiz*) and that is why Mueller is flailing in all directions and has now descended to granting immunity from possible imprisonment for a minor infraction by some deadbeat who was fired by Trump.


    * https://newrepublic.com/minute…-defense-attorney-history

  • May has just named two Russian military intelligence officers as being the ones behind both attacks and said the UK will step up efforts against the Russian military agency - the GRU.


    She said traces of the nerve agent were found in a hotel room these spies used and this is what was used in the attacks. It was contained in a perfume bottom and May said it was the reckless discarding of this item, that led to the second incident.


    May said its pointless asking Russia to extradite these people as its the Russian state responsible to begin with, however a international arrest warrant will be issued if these men were ever to leave Russia's borders.


    We're getting ever closer to a military conflict with Russia...

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  • Here's the official story from the beeb on this:


    Two Russian nationals have been named as suspects in the attempted murder of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

    The men, using the names Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, are thought to be officers from Russia's military intelligence service, the PM said.

    Scotland Yard and the CPS say there is enough evidence to charge the men.

    Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, were poisoned with the nerve agent Novichok in March.

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