Government may reintegrate Rail and reverse Beeching's Rail closures

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  • Heavily unionised. The trains will go automatic, hence why there was strikes on one of the lines the other year which will stop that nonsense in the end.

    The problem with rail privatisation these days is there are far too many people with fingers in the pie, whereas in the days before British Rail the companies owned the trains, the track and all the other infrastructure, today we have the train operating companies who just run the trains while leasing the trains from another company over tracks owned by someone else.

    The rail system was broken up as it is now because the track is shared and breaks off into different directions. If you had one or more tracks going to each destination, those tracks could be individually owned by the train companies, but the train companies have to share the tracks with each other and thus why we have Network Rail. And the trains are leased becuase the franchises are so small. If the train companies had franchisees of 30 years say, they probably would buy their own trains.

    The c2c line (the former Misery Line) by me going from Southend into Fenchurch St is one such track that only goes in one direction and thus is owned by one company, but that is not the norm.

    As for the cost of tickets I just dont get the pricing for instance I live in Banbury and sometimes travel to Oxford and Bicester, the tickets to Oxford cost around £6 for a off-peak standard return whereas the tickets to Bicester costs around £9 for a off-peak standard return you only have to look on a map to see Bicester is not as far as Oxford, I have yet to have anyone give me a satisfactory explanation as to why it costs more to travel to Bicester than it does to Oxford.

    Don't know Ron. Apart from London, I've never been on trains elsewhere between major towns and cities. Have you ever asked your train company why this is? Perhaps the Bicester route stops more and thus costs more to operate??

  • saing space - see above #13,14,1,5,16

    Horizon: thanks for getting as immersed as I did. Answering all your comments - same numbering as I used and you stuck to

    1 Reliability/predictability is more important than stringent punctuality because connections between modes of public transport can never equal a personal taxi/limo waiting for your train to arrive no more than 10-15 minutes late. So one must rely on a reasonable frequent multi-stop shuttle service into the town centre.

    2 I’m not saying a private company can’t run a high quality rail service such as InterCity. I’m just using Intercity to demonstrate that privatisation is not a prerequisite and that the right culture within a nationalised railway is feasible, a viable stand-alone division within Britain’s railways that can do its own thing. Also, there is no justification in an Intercity passenger being disallowed to have a total journey ticket and be disallowed to change to a non-Intercity train to complete their journey. This is what happens when independent private rail companies are allowed by Government to behave in such a dog-in-manger manner that prevents an integrated railway system. It’s monumentally stupid of Government to let that happen. Never mind Government running a railway, how about it just governs properly?!

    3 Parking one’s car at one of London’s rail termini (or a main city terminus) is probably a luxury that can’t be afforded and inasmuch that other public transport will run to & from that termini I don’t see that there is much of a problem here that needs addressing. It’s the outlying/provincial stations I was referring to.

    4 I’m not saying people will change job or home locations just to fit their lifestyle to the railway system. What I’m saying is that when the opportunity or necessity to change jobs or home locations enters into people’s lives, viable rail travel will factor into that decision. Thus, it’s a long term trend.

    5 Capitalism and a consumer demand economy rather than a Soviet Russian supply economy: yes, you’re so right, “Uber” says it all with regard the new travel offerings that are on the horizon

    6 Ease of booking vs a ticket jungle: you’re right, today’s computer should remove the excuse that allows railway divisions to impose their confused or opportunistic opaque tariffs on travellers.

    7 Like you I'm also not dogmatic on private vs nationalised and, with the quality and culture of Government which we have, privately run organisations is the better or less bad option. With one major proviso: better government regulation to ensure that private companies keep to the promises in a well-conceived contract that should anticipate all manner of opportunistic abuses. Needless to say, the contract should be sufficiently long term for the private company to make long term investment decisions rather just pursuing a fast buck. As for separating track from trains, that was never going to work. It was inevitably going to be an excuse escape clause for private companies who own routes blaming the Government who own the track. Both or neither need to be privatised.

    8 Thinking beyond and ahead of HS2: thank you for going the distance. I love your visions. The reason why I no longer read science fiction is that it’s become real or within our sights (if not in all cases within our lifetime!). If Ray Bradbury, Isaac Asimov and all other greats (Maine, Bester, Sheckley, Clarke, Dick, Heinlein etc) were alive today they’d be stretched to peer any further into the future. Movie directors have taken that ball and are running with it. As you say, different travel pods for different travel purposes, different economic/wealth segments and different levels of tailored exclusivity; but all with built in safety mechanisms for every human being with the exception of lycra-clad cyclists. Hedgehogs would no longer be an endangered species.

    Then of course we can get rid of all of that advanced travel technology once we master Jaunting. After all, if Gully Foyle could manage to do it, any of us can

  • 2 I’m not saying a private company can’t runa high quality rail service such as InterCity. I’m just using Intercity to demonstrate that privatisation is not a prerequisiteand that the right culture within a nationalised railway is feasible, a viablestand-alone division within Britain’s railways that can do its own thing. Also, there is no justification in an Intercitypassenger being disallowed to have a total journey ticket and be disallowed to changeto a non-Intercity train to complete their journey. This is what happens when independent privaterail companies are allowed by Government to behave in such a dog-in-mangermanner that prevents an integrated railway system. It’s monumentally stupid of Government to letthat happen. Never mind Governmentrunning a railway, how about it just governs properly?!

    Agree and as I don't travel on trains beyond London, I wasn't aware of how the ticketing works. Everyone should be allowed to travel on one ticket.

    3 Parking one’s car at one of London’s rail termini(or a main city terminus) is probably a luxury that can’t be afforded and inasmuchthat other public transport will run to & from that termini I don’t seethat there is much of a problem here that needs addressing. It’s the outlying/provincial stations I was referring to.

    Me too. I live in about as outer London as you can get.

    7 Like you I'm also not dogmatic on private vsnationalised and, with the quality and culture of Government which we have, privatelyrun organisations is the better or less bad option. With one major proviso: better government regulation to ensure thatprivate companies keep to the promises in a well-conceived contract that shouldanticipate all manner of opportunistic abuses. Needless to say, the contract should be sufficiently long term for theprivate company to make long term investment decisions rather just pursuing afast buck. As for separating track from trains,that was never going to work. It was inevitablygoing to be an excuse escape clause for private companies who own routes blamingthe Government who own the track. Bothor neither need to be privatised.

    But whether private or not, the track is still shared between different services that travel at different speeds that ultimately end up at different destinations. And I agree about the governance/regulation and the companies need to be pinned down in proper contracts that make them accountable. And on that...:

    I never went into HS2, but let me briefly explain why this is so important.

    The headline for HS2 is "shave 20 mins off your journey" or whatever it maybe, but that is not the reason for having HS2. What is misunderstood or not known about HS2 is the knock on effect on existing services.

    By having a brand new railway line, you not only increase capacity on existing lines, but it allows the train companies to fiddle with their time tables and make substantial improvements to services, because there will be far less sharing of the track, because new track, new capacity, will be built.

  • Everyone should be allowed to travel on one ticket.

    When I was car-less and traveled down to Cornwall regularly you couldn't get a single ticket for down and return legs. There was always a split and you had to jiggle with its position to get the best price. Here the on-line rail journey planners were a godsend.

  • I never went into HS2, but let me briefly explain why this is so important.

    The headline for HS2 is "shave 20 mins off your journey" or whatever it maybe, but that is not the reason for having HS2. What is misunderstood or not known about HS2 is the knock on effect on existing services.

    By having a brand new railway line, you not only increase capacity on existing lines, but it allows the train companies to fiddle with their time tables and make substantial improvements to services, because there will be far less sharing of the track, because new track, new capacity, will be built.

    HS2 when announced in 2010 was going to cost £33 billion. It's now increased to £56 billion. Independent estimates are that it will end up costing £100 billion.

    Compulsory purchasing of property is already a shabby disgrace.

    Originally HS2 was all about speed. Thanks to on-train internet connectivity making it possible to work on trains, extra speed becomes less important

    The new justification for HS2 is capacity. But London to Birmingham is less than half full on average and at its peak no more than 70%. The movie concept "build it and they will come" might work for a baseball field in the wilds of Nebraska but I doubt it is a business model for HS2 between London and the North

    Besides, the North-South divide is already well served by rail. Possibly a faster East-West connection in the North of England (ditto in the South). At present HS2 is too London-Centric, which is hardly powering up the North.

    Completion is forecast for around 2033. Are you confident that HS2 will be a relevant method of travel within Britain 14 years hence? I'm certainly not

  • There was a time when our railways were the envy of the world, now they are a joke.

    You would think that with everyone supposedly tying to be more eco friendly, the powers that be, would be trying to encourage everyone to use public transport.

  • Completion is forecast for around 2033. Are you confident that HS2 will be a relevant method of travel within Britain 14 years hence? I'm certainly not

    Baring in mind what I said about automated pods, no I'm not. And we'll have flying pods by then too.

    HS2 when announced in 2010 was going to cost £33 billion. It's now increased to £56 billion. Independent estimates are that it will end up costing £100 billion.

    £100bn for a new railway line is a joke. Actually, no, it's criminal. Whoever is quoting those figures needs to be shot.

    Besides, the North-South divide is already well served by rail. Possibly a faster East-West connection in the North of England (ditto in the South). At present HS2 is too London-Centric, which is hardly powering up the North.

    I agree. No idea how one would travel between Manchester and Newcastle by public transport. Donkey, I presume. South West desperately needs a new connection too after that flooding fiasco a few years ago.

    There was a time when our railways were the envy of the world, now they are a joke.


    You would think that with everyone supposedly tying to be more eco friendly, the powers that be, would be trying to encourage everyone to use public transport.

    Compared to some, we;re still pretty good Ron.

    The French boast about their high speed TGVs going between their cities, but what about more shorter distances. Almost non-existent, as far as train services go.

  • 1 £100bn for a new railway line is a joke. Actually, no, it's criminal. Whoever is quoting those figures needs to be shot.

    2 South West desperately needs a new connection too after that flooding fiasco a few years ago.

    3 The French boast about their high speed TGVs going between their cities, but what about more shorter distances. Almost non-existent, as far as train services go.

    1 And whoever assured the public of much lower figures, either through incompetence or deceit should by drawn & quartered

    2 When in my work I travelled a great deal around Britain I fondly remember taking a sleeper from Newcastle to Exeter. It was a cross country service. It took about 6.5 hours. That cross country service still exists but minus the sleeper service (because convenience and comfort has always been an anathema to Britain's railways). Once you take away the convenience of a sleeper, Consequently, if you look at cross country's timetable, there is less than a 15 minute difference in total duration from going diagonally cross-country versus Newcastle-London-Exeter. Maybe this points to how we should develop Britain's railways: not as an effective way to travel from A to B but rather for a sightseeing meandering hop-off-hop-on way of exploring Britain, with trains coming along every couple of hours. Message from pilot to passengers: "we shall be landing in Britain in 20 minutes, please reset your watches back 100 years.

    3 TGV is impressively high speed but it has never been as as luxurious and relaxing as Intercity once was during its heyday (it's Eurostar that has picked up that ball and ran with it ...... if you can afford it). Apart from the grand views, America's Amtrak is also a shadow of its former self. Even if I suited up and looked like Cary Grant there is no way I'd find myself sitting down to have cocktails and then dinner with Eve Mary Saint as our train speeds through the prairie from Chicago to Denver, with a bar pianist tinkling in the background. Indeed, Amtrak today makes Britain's Railways look good.

  • Northern rail could be nationalised

    The government is considering whether the management of the North of England's largest rail commuter service should be taken into public hands.

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said Northern's poor performance, with trains regularly arriving late or not at all, "cannot continue".

    I do not understand why a railway is so hard to run. The trains can only go to certain places and run along a fixed route, yet time and time again, these companies are failing to run an acceptable level of service.

  • Northern rail services rapped as 'unacceptable'

    The government has described Northern rail services as "unacceptable" as delays continue to plague its trains.

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said he was "not prepared" to tolerate the commuter line operator's poor performance.

    In October, Mr Shapps said he had taken steps that could lead to Northern being stripped of its franchise.

    Northern rail said the late delivery of big infrastructure projects had disrupted its services.

    Northern Rail back in the news today and with Boris' majority and his SDP like policies, will he bring this franchise back under government control?

  • Northern Rail back in the news today and with Boris' majority and his SDP like policies, will he bring this franchise back under government control?

    Must be a right bunch of losers who cannot run an efficient reliable service, and make money

  • Really. Someone should have told Labour who were promising to renationalise the railways if elected

    From The Independent News paper.

    Trains on UK railways now almost entirely state-owned – by foreign countries.

    France - Holland - Germany and others whose GOVERNMENTS own most of the Trains of UK and use all the profit for social benefits in their own countries - none goes to UK peoples benefit. This is Nationalisation.

  • East Coast line became THE most efficient line in Britain, when under Government control. And it mad a profit.

    Absolutely. When I was travelling all over Britain on business, The East Coast line, from London direct to Edinburgh - and onwards to Aberdeen - was a wonderful service. Catching the last train out of Newcastle at 8 30pm and, without reservations, having an excellent dinner with my 3 colleagues, with an excellent steak, grilled to taste, and cheese to help finish off BR's Malmaison-selected Bordeaux ....... all that was missing was a Manhattan cocktail on the rocks, a piano player and to be seated opposite Eve Marie Saint in North by Northwest.

  • From Todays METRO Newspaper:

    Train company ARRIVA owns 21% of the UK rail networks, under franchise from Deutsche Bahn, a German owned company has cut prices in Germany by 10% while happy for the recent price rise for tickets in the UK.

    There are claims that UK is subsidising the cuts in Germany??

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