Brexit and EU general chit chat

  • I was able to vote in the 75 referendum about remaining in the common market (that we had been taken into by Heath without electoral consent), and I remember all the assurances that it was purely a trade arrangement and there would be no loss of sovereignty. Even then, many were unhappy with the Common Market restrictive rules and that's how we got a referendum in '75. There wasn't any internet in those days to check out the treaties and so discover what lying b******* politicians were! We were wrong to trust politicians and it's gone downhill, if anything, since. Our country belongs to everyone, not just the politicians.


    I reckon Heath was either blackmailed or bought. Maybe both, but we'll never know for sure.

  • I reckon Heath was either blackmailed or bought. Maybe both, but we'll never know for sure.

    From what I've read on the matter Heath knew exactly what he was leading the country into but didn't dare tell the electorate.


    BTW You knew that the EU bought Heath "Morning Cloud"? (His Yacht) Read into that what you will.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

    If my post is in red it is moderation. Take note.

  • I was able to vote in the 75 referendum about remaining in the common market (that we had been taken into by Heath without electoral consent), and I remember all the assurances that it was purely a trade arrangement and there would be no loss of sovereignty. Even then, many were unhappy with the Common Market restrictive rules and that's how we got a referendum in '75. There wasn't any internet in those days to check out the treaties and so discover what lying b******* politicians were! We were wrong to trust politicians and it's gone downhill, if anything, since. Our country belongs to everyone, not just the politicians.


    I reckon Heath was either blackmailed or bought. Maybe both, but we'll never know for sure.

    I hadn't realised until you just said it, that the original referendum only came after the entry into the EEC.8|


    I am going to have at least one thread on political reform, so I'll reserve my comments about our current system for that, but things have got to change and with the technology we have now, there is no reason it shouldn't.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • On thing is for sure, so many EU countries are very unhappy with current EU policies and eu-scepticism is on the rise, even in Germany which gains the biggest advantage from EU membership.


    The costs and disadvantages of the EU outweigh the benefits.


    The EU will only become democratic when it starts offering the people a choice of direction, and I suspect 'more EU' won't be acceptable to the majority.


    Likewise in the UK. We were only given a choice of pro-EU parties, which was no choice at all, until UKIP came along. I wonder how many other people in other EU countries are given the same 'no choice'?


    The ridiculously high salaries, pensions and perks for EU officials, and most of it tax free, isn't an accident. Buy the politicians and you buy the country.

  • A little bit off topic, but related to my previous post about high EU salaries. Watch the video included in this article:


    Farage in EU Parliament


    Listen to the chairmans comments (at 1:12mins into the video). He appears to imply that because Farage receives an EU salary, then he should not criticise the EU.

  • Heath also won the Charlemagne Award which had £35k payout (what would that be worth now?), after he signed the Treaty of Rome.


    Lies, lies and more lies, but good payoffs for the traitors

    Heath's greatest contribution was to create by incompetent leadership the 3-day working week, enabling this country to discover that productivity was unaffected. Which means of course that the French were right to take leisure seriously and work as a pastime 8)


    The rest of what you say and Vernon Colman say about Heath doesn't surprise me in the least

  • Heath also won the Charlemagne Award which had £35k payout (what would that be worth now?), after he signed the Treaty of Rome.


    Lies, lies and more lies, but good payoffs for the traitors

    I have to say I have never heard of that award before until your post. Interesting that it's the Germans dishing it out...


    That article goes on to say there there is slush fund worth billions used to "acquire" new members states. The article also goes on to say that the EU's accounts haven't been signed off for more than a decade by the auditors. And remainers think staying in the EU is a good thing!:rolleyes::S

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • I was able to vote in the 75 referendum about remaining in the common market (that we had been taken into by Heath without electoral consent), and I remember all the assurances that it was purely a trade arrangement and there would be no loss of sovereignty. Even then, many were unhappy with the Common Market restrictive rules and that's how we got a referendum in '75. There wasn't any internet in those days to check out the treaties and so discover what lying b******* politicians were! We were wrong to trust politicians and it's gone downhill, if anything, since. Our country belongs to everyone, not just the politicians.


    I reckon Heath was either blackmailed or bought. Maybe both, but we'll never know for sure.

    Although technology can be used for ill, I consider it in many ways as a great leveller.


    As you say, there was no internet in 1975 or during the 1940s when the EU was being planned, but if the "common man" had access to all the information then, I wonder if things would have turned out different.


    The whole point of the EU as devised by the Americans along with the French and others after WW2 was to prevent another war.


    The continent had been racked by two major world wars within a short time frame, a third if you include the additional war fought between the French and Germans. So, the plan of having European countries working together so they would no longer fight each other was a laudable aim. Except the plan was never for European countries to work together, but merge together instead. And as for stopping war in Europe, tell that to the people of Yugoslavia. The country doesn't exist now, or Ukraine, after Putin's little green men entered.


    I am very pro European in many respects, but the planners of the 1940s and those from today seem to misunderstand some basic details: European countries are different; have different languages; have different laws; have different customs; have different history; have different outlooks from each other etc. How could different countries ever merge together?


    Simply put, the great plan has already failed before it's really even started. If European countries cannot prevent territory being taken by force within the European continent by an aggressor, then there is no point of a united Europe.


    If people could've checked the plans in the 1940s on the internet, I think Robert Schuman would've been swamped by emails from Britons politely saying, "thank you Mr Schuman, but no thanks." As for Heath, I did think Britons would've been quite so polite about his intentions.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Money talks I agree, but this will be the EU's downfall, especially if you include the Euro into the mix.


    The money is still controlled by each country. I do not ever see the Germans relinquishing control of their money to Brussels, and so the European project can never rally work, because integration can only go so far.


    At the moment the EU is in limbo. They need to integrate faster to make it workable, but may countries including Germany are getting cold feet, especially about subsidising Southern European countries. I have no sympathy for them at all.


    The EU pensions,perks etc is an issue, but the real issue is that without a central European treaty, there can be no real federal state. And the Germans will not allow a central EU treasury stuffed with their money, so ultimately the EU is doomed.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • The latest EU idea ... forcible insuring of your lawnmower! Why the hell should the EU have so much control over member countries?


    The proposed 'copyright laws' are also another step too far. We won't be able to link to any article, or comment, without making a payment to somebody, so the internet will be useless ... unless there is piles of money exchanging hands. I think the consequences will be so far reaching that every internet user will be effectively controlled. Can you imagine the admin involved? The cost of compliance will outweigh any benefits.


    The EU claim is that it enables originators to obtain payment when their work is 'copied'. I don't trust the EU or their attempts to discredit and get rid of euro-sceptics, so suspect it may well be used to censure anti-EU articles and comments.


    Article on the new EU copyright directive


    EDIT: both Labour and the Conservatives support this directive. In other words, another 'no choice' for the electorate within our two party system.

  • The proposed 'copyright laws' are also another step too far. We won't be able to link to any article, or comment, without making a payment to somebody, so the internet will be useless ...

    It's why when I create threads here and link to articles, I use the BBC. As I have already paid a "sub" to the BBC this year, I don't think event the EU could prevent linking from BBC article, but this is the EU!


    I'll need to digest that article carefully and I'll try and comment on it later.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • The UK's exit from the EU next March could be delayed to allow for further negotiations and the public to make the "final decision", Tony Blair has said.

    As a longstanding critic of Brexit, the former prime minister said talks were "drifting" and may have to continue beyond next March's exit date.

    He also said if the EU reformed its migration rules the UK could stay in "with dignity".

    Has he finished making all his millions now on the lecture circuit? So, he comes back here now and continually lecture us on his "wisdom." This is about the third or fourth time he's popped up in recent months. Getting a bit too regular for my liking.


    Surely, he still can't have his eye on the EU president job, can he?:/


    Dear Mr Blair, Ms Miller et all, we made our decision. Got it? Nope, didn't think so.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Right, now the "fun" is over aka the football, back to business and Brexit.


    So, where are we? A complete mess I'd suggest!

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Ms Miller is still demanding another referendum. I don't understand her logic though.


    She says the 1st referendum was 'too complicated' for us peasants, but we should have a referendum on the final deal! I guess that means it will be simpler than a binary yes/no question. Does that mean it will only have one option, so that we can't 'get it wrong'? :D

  • She says the 1st referendum was 'too complicated' for us peasants, but we should have a referendum on the final deal!

    If the first one was too complicated the second one will be even more so as May's plans have never been tried before whereas we already trade under WTO rules with many other countries.


    Article 50 has been invoked so remaining in the EU is not an option, therefore the only question that could be put in a second referendum would be May's plan, potentially watered down by the EU, or leave and trade under WTO rules or any special agreement(s) that can be made with theird parties which is the much simpler option IMHO

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

    If my post is in red it is moderation. Take note.

  • Talking of May's "plan" aka sellout, the goverment's White Paper should be published any minute now. I might have some time to have a quick look at this afternoon, so will see for myself whether the plan is staying in the EU in all but name, or not.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Back home, angry and jet lagged , WTF is May and the Tory party up to? , no wonder Johnson and Davies "did one" and gave her the one fingered salute , why can't we leave this appalling organisation? , why do we still have to be tied to its Nanny state apron?

    The Tories should be electorally slaughtered if this plan actually happens , I will do my best to ensure they suffer a Michael Foot type disaster.

    Our only hope is that the EU tell her to get "mated" .

  • Our only hope is that the EU tell her to get "mated" .

    She'll just water it down further until she has her piece of paper to wave, Chamberlain type, as she steps off the plane.


    17.4 million people betrayed.:rolleyes:

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

    If my post is in red it is moderation. Take note.

  • Back home, angry and jet lagged , WTF is May and the Tory party up to? , no wonder Johnson and Davies "did one" and gave her the one fingered salute , why can't we leave this appalling organisation? , why do we still have to be tied to its Nanny state apron?

    The Tories should be electorally slaughtered if this plan actually happens , I will do my best to ensure they suffer a Michael Foot type disaster.

    Our only hope is that the EU tell her to get "mated" .

    They may will do that. We've gone in with such a "low ball" offer, so the EU might think want not try to lower the bar even further.


    The analysis by one of the political commentators (whose name escapes me at the moment) on Boris' resignation was very interesting. He basically said that Boris didn't want Davis to be viewed as the new "leader" for the leave side and wanted to keep as much limelight for himself (Boris) as possible.


    A potentially very acute and accurate assessment, I believe.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • She'll just water it down further until she has her piece of paper to wave, Chamberlain type, as she steps off the plane.


    17.4 million people betrayed.:rolleyes:

    What he just said.:)

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Dominic Grieve, the new Brexit secretary, is just starting to talk in parliament now. He is introducing the White Paper on "The Plan."

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • What a joke, they are talking about a plan that the MP's still have not got physical sight of , who is allowing this stupidity?

    The conservatives had the paper, the Labour MPs didn't. Bercow suspended the chamber for five minutes while the paper was handed out to the Labour MPs. They were furious.


    One of the MPs said that May handed Angela Merkel a copy of the paper yesterday...


    Surely you mean Raab , not Grieve?

    Yep.:whistling:


    I still haven't got over Grieve's actions in the withdrawal bill, so I have his name permanently imprinted on my brain.8|

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • One of the MPs said that May handed Angela Merkel a copy of the paper yesterday...

    Not only that, but rumour has it that May said it cannot be changed, because Merkel has already agreed it!!!!!!!!!!!


    I still haven't got over Grieve's actions in the withdrawal bill, so I have his name permanently imprinted on my brain. 8|

    Dominic Grieve was the one who demanded a change to the withdrawal bill. Dominic Raab is the new Brexit Minister, in place of David Davis.

  • I know Fidget. Just a little slip by me.

    Not only that, but rumour has it that May said it cannot be changed, because Merkel has already agreed it!!!!!!!!!!!

    FFS.:cursing:

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • He was totally pissed as usual. I mentioned this the other day that he staggers out of bed at lunchtime and heads straight for the grog. All paid for EU taxpayer's money.X(


    That said, going by the looks of half the MEPs who go to the European parliament which he frequently attends, that place looks like Alcoholics Anonymous most of the time. They all talk in unintelligible dribble.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member to leave a comment.