Brexit and EU general chit chat

Please treat other members in a constructive and friendly manner: Our Community Guidelines.
  • I don't think May should be honest. I think she should be committed.


    It's because democracy has prevailed that we are in this mess

  • On the contrary .. it's because democracy and honesty did NOT prevail, that we are in this mess.


    If Heath and Major had been honest, and there had been a democratic vote about the EEC and the EU, I doubt very much that we would be in this mess.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • On the contrary .. it's because democracy and honesty did NOT prevail, that we are in this mess.


    If Heath and Major had been honest, and there had been a democratic vote about the EEC and the EU, I doubt very much that we would be in this mess.

    You might try coming to terms with the difference between democracy as an ideal and as a reality


    What people require from democracy is to vote for a government that honestly and intelligently serves deserving citizens.


    That has to mean elected politicians are better than citizens as a whole


    Otherwise a misunderstood anti-elitism means that average-ness prevails, which is no way to improve society


    Therefore the exceptional qualities needed to be a politician surely can't be left to chance


    And most certainty politicians should not win the vote by matching the average voter's self-image


    Instead I'm proposing meritocracy

  • Mrs May has been uninvited to the EU banquet on Wednesday , I am surprised she is even going to attend on Thursday , more embarrassment undoubtedly awaits her.

  • Mrs May has been uninvited to the EU banquet on Wednesday , I am surprised she is even going to attend on Thursday , more embarrassment undoubtedly awaits her.

    Do you think she being terribly brave/plucky or mentally vacant/insensitive?

  • Mrs May has been uninvited to the EU banquet on Wednesday , I am surprised she is even going to attend on Thursday , more embarrassment undoubtedly awaits her.

    Hey, she may come back with a good deal and we all bask in her golden light.... I'm tired.:)


    By the way, what happened at the cabinet meeting today? Can't find any info on it. I'm assuming no one else has resigned yet, otherwise it would be on the front page of the BBC's web site.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Just come indoors and May is doing a press conference from Brussels. Not sure what's happened yet, but she doesn't look happy...

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Right, the BBC reporter just did a summary of what's going on and the EU has stated that not enough "progress" aka capitulation has been done on the exit deal. The plan was that was to be sorted out the EU conference last night and our future relations with the EU would be signed off next month, but now there won't be a EU conference next month.


    It is being reported that the implementation period (or whatever it's being called today) could be extended up to a year. So, it would start next March 2019 and end 2022....X/


    So, we'd be bound by EU rules until 2022, pay into their coffers and have no say in the rules. I'm surprised May is looking unhappy, it's everything she wants.


    The sticking point is Northern Ireland and the EU wants NI to stay in the customs union and May has told the EU that is unacceptable, as it would essentially create a border between NI and the rest of the UK.


    Please Boris, J-RM, anyone, put this mess to an end. A END, not going on in perpetually forever..

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • The EU says it is ready to extend the post-Brexit transition period if the UK wants.

    The current length of the transition period - designed to smooth the path from Brexit to the UK and EU's future permanent relationship - is 21 months.

    But with the two sides failing to reach a deal yet, UK Prime Minister Theresa May has suggested extending this arrangement "for a few months".

    Here's the official story, except what I didn't realise that it was May who has requested the extension of the transitional period.:cursing:


    Somebody will make a lot of money one day writing books on what a bloody fiasco this all is.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • I always take people at face value and considering she is Prime Minister of our country said she would take us out of the EU, I fully accepted that.


    It will be very hard for most people who voted to leave the EU in 2016 to understand that will still might be tied to the EU until at least 2022 now. I am sure that timescale will slip further.


    I need to go back an look at the EU Withdrawal Act, as it is now. It is law and it does undo the EU treaties starting with the original ones in the 70s that took us into the EU/EC/EEC, so I don't understand how we can be semi in the EU post Brexit when our law is very clear on this that we'll be out of the EU.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • I always take people at face value and considering she is Prime Minister of our country said she would take us out of the EU, I fully accepted that.


    It will be very hard for most people who voted to leave the EU in 2016 to understand that will still might be tied to the EU until at least 2022 now. I am sure that timescale will slip further.

    We're dealing here about a degree of political obfuscation which has turned into deliberate deceit and immorality. Is it possible that she is just plain evil?


    At the very least it is horrifically clear that Theresa May has several screws loose. Isn't there anyone in this forum who realises that? Is there a fear of police knocking at one;s door? Or is this this country going down the toilet due to innate British politeness?

  • I'm not prepared yet to say she is deceitful, but being tied to the EU until 2022 will be hard to stomach, if that happens. If.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • being tied to the EU until 2022 will be hard to stomach

    Fortunately as the saying goes: There's many a slip betwixt cup and lip. May's appeasement plan could fall at any number of stages and I hope it does so that we really leave lock, stock and barrel next March. No kicking the can down the road. Just leave. Yes it'll be tough and those who've not prepared may well go out of business but they've had two years so far to prepare and it will be their own faults.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

    If my post is in this colour  it is moderation. Take note.

  • Somebody will make a lot of money one day writing books on what a bloody fiasco this all is.

    Maybe it could be a play based on a conversation between the top honchos in the EU:


    "Why don't we tell May to sod off and stop wasting our time?"


    No, no, then the Brits will rally around her and insist their stupid country leaves as quickly as possible with no deal.


    But they're a bunch of loonies and it's going happen anyway!


    But we we need May to represent our interests.


    Don't you mean Britain's interests?


    Well, the says she's representing Britain's interests. I would argue that she's she's really representing our interest


    How so? She's just wasting our time.


    Look at this way: our aim is to win either by enticing Britain back into our cartel or better still, taking their money for some second class membership where they can't make a nuisance of themselves and can pretend it's a successful Brexit deal or, failing that, they just leave without a deal and go down the toilet economically and socially, so we end up grabbing most of their business, which is more power to our elbow.


    Why do we need May to achieve any of that?


    Because as a leader of a country there is no one stupider.


    Yes, of course, there is that. Actually, I think they have a considerable choice of stupid people in their Government. Otherwise by now they would have chucked her down the steps of number 10.


    Yes, that is weird, isn't it. At least Japan's Kamikaze pilots knew what they were dying for.


    What if they rescind Article 51? I mean, Britain is such a pain in the arse. I mean apart from their money, we need them as an EU member like a hole in the head


    That's okay, we'd be taking their money subject to them accepting new rules or conditions, such as having to joining the euro within 3 years. Theresa May and her dead beat MP's are stupid enough to agree to that.


    Won't they say it's illegal and that rescinding Article 51 is going back to exactly what it was before?


    Perhaps it's a grey area , which is fine because they'll argue about it for an eternity.


    Do we really want to face more arguments with the UK in the years to come?


    Oh, it doesn't take up much time, gives us something to do, to amuse ourselves and, remember the big picture here, that while they're arguing with us their country's social and economic structure is falling apart, so we will have demolished a competitor and grabbed a big share of their business.


    That's all very well but we're not in such a great shape ourselves, we're going to have to make some reforms.


    Sure, and we may even succeed in doing so. But let's try and do it without Britain, I mean, they can't even take care of their own country, so what possible contribution can they make to reforming the EU?


    No wonder the British ex-pats in France, Portugal and Spain are going crazy with worry about being forced to return to Britain!!


    Yes, but are we not throwing stones while being in a glass house? What if Europe is also dying? Douglas Murray's book has some disturbing truths.


    I agree. And we might all get roasted alive or drowned by global warming or beheaded under a fundamentalist version of Sharia Law. The way I see it, by the time we discover that the EU is in a terminal state, we will all have retired on our remuneration, expenses and pension, to somewhere warm and sunny. And by the time Europe has gone completely pear shaped, we will have left this planet


    What about our children and future grand children?


    Aach! They just want to play with their smartphones and find something to be oppressed about ....they'll always find something.

  • As Nigel says she is a remainer, as simple as that. She doesn't think she's acting like a kamikaze pilot, quite the opposite and they'll be no persuading her any differently.

    Fortunately as the saying goes: There's many a slip betwixt cup and lip. May's appeasement plan could fall at any number of stages and I hope it does so that we really leave lock, stock and barrel next March. No kicking the can down the road. Just leave. Yes it'll be tough and those who've not prepared may well go out of business but they've had two years so far to prepare and it will be their own faults.

    From the EU's point of view, they're playing a blinder here, or May is doing it for them...


    Even though a majority voted leave, we will still pay into the current EU budget period which expires in 2020. This two year transition period takes us into the next budget period and now this proposed extension, in effect would mean we would end up committing to the next entire budget period which presumably would expire in 2026, a full ten years after the UK voted to leave the EU.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Just finished listening to more commentators and why do they let them continually spew out this "Boris , Gove and Farage promised things we cannot deliver" , NONE OF THEM ARE IN CHARGE OF NEGOTIATIONS! , perhaps if they were , we might be on the way out!

  • As Nigel says she is a remainer, as simple as that. She doesn't think she's acting like a kamikaze pilot, quite the opposite and they'll be no persuading her any differently.

    From the EU's point of view, they're playing a blinder here, or May is doing it for them...


    Even though a majority voted leave, we will still pay into the current EU budget period which expires in 2020. This two year transition period takes us into the next budget period and now this proposed extension, in effect would mean we would end up committing to the next entire budget period which presumably would expire in 2026, a full ten years after the UK voted to leave the EU.

    The fat Lady is clearing her throat for the Tories electoral prospects, why doesn't Mad cow May see this?

  • Just finished listening to more commentators and why do they let them continually spew out this "Boris , Gove and Farage promised things we cannot deliver" , NONE OF THEM ARE IN CHARGE OF NEGOTIATIONS! , perhaps if they were , we might be on the way out!

    Yes, it winds me up too. Likewise with the remainers who claim we are a 'tiny entity' that cannot survive without the EU. If we are a 'tiny entity' then I wonder what wonderful descriptions they have for countries with smaller economies.


    Boris and co promised things that are perfectly normal for an independent sovereign country. If the UK, as an independent sovereign country, can't have those things, they should ask why!

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • My anger is rising to new levels , WE HAVE A REMAINER IN CHARGE OF BREXIT , WHATVELSE DO WE NEED TO SAY

    Yes, it winds me up too. Likewise with the remainers who claim we are a 'tiny entity' that cannot survive without the EU. If we are a 'tiny entity' then I wonder what wonderful descriptions they have for countries with smaller economies.


    Boris and co promised things that are perfectly normal for an independent sovereign country. If the UK, as an independent sovereign country, can't have those things, they should ask why!

    Remainers see no wrong in the EU , the fact the EU have cleverly , and they deserve credit for it , entwined so many things together that they control everything should really irk normal thinking human beings.

  • Do you think she being terribly brave/plucky or mentally vacant/insensitive?

    I think she is more welcome there, than here and she want's a pleasant meal amongst her preferred friends.

  • Let's face it, we have to stay in the EU. It's the right place to be for a country that can't govern itself and where alienated citizens can't express themselves in any other way except to bitch about it and pinpoint examples of contradictions, hypocrisy or plain incompetence, as if these are dramatic revelations .


    On the Right side of the House of Commons we have a motley bunch of self-seeking argumentative twits. On the Left side we have a semi-organised bunch of power-crazed hyenas who can smell blood and the opportunity to inhabit Number 10 and rob the rich, to pay the poor and themselves, although not necessarily in that order.


    At least being stuck in the EU will restrain the hyenas from completely destroying what will become an EU asset.


    All this stuff about sovereignty, British law, global trade deals, border control, NHS standards, mental health, crime prevention, social benefits, a second runway, HS2, Defence ........ for all of this we are holed beneath the waterline by a deficit of money, talent and competence. Our best future for survival, or extended remission is to walk arm in arm with the EU to oblivion over the next few decades. It is better than rapidly building food banks and providing emergency medical aid to enable street sleepers to postpone dying by a few weeks.

  • Actually I prefer WW3 to EU membership.


    So keep it if you like, but don't expect a peaceful and stable country if you do.

  • Actually I prefer WW3 to EU membership.


    So keep it if you like, but don't expect a peaceful and stable country if you do.

    Snap! I think there will be mass civil unrest if we are kept in the EU after all the promises made by politicians. There will be no hiding place for those who destroy democracy.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • I think more of them will get murdered. I think that's imminent.


    I'll go that far.


    I'm not really sure the UK will break up Ukraine style. But it could do. though I think not.

    I don't really see why anyone should obey the law if this isn't a democracy.


    Civil disobedience. And a new culture of it.

    I wouldn't raise my kids to respect and obey the law for example.

    Wouldn't encourage anyone to vote or be socially conducive towards people who worked for the state.


    I can't see myself hurting people or breaking things. Or marching anywhere.

    But I could see myself not paying taxes, and ignoring court summons and bailiffs.

    Not shopping people to the police and not condoning violence against the state.


    The smartest thing I could do is leave.

    Renounce my nationality and reflag.

    That would be a bitter pill. To quit without a fight.

  • I'm too old to emigrate now, but if I were young I would leave. It breaks my heart to see what our country has become. I expect I will end my days in the gulags if things keep on the way they are.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • I haven't surrendered yet.


    I had a job lined up in China on referendum day.

    I don't want to live here as an angry person.


    That's not my future.

  • Just finished listening to more commentators and why do they let them continually spew out this "Boris , Gove and Farage promised things we cannot deliver" , NONE OF THEM ARE IN CHARGE OF NEGOTIATIONS! , perhaps if they were , we might be on the way out!

    Is that LBC again?


    Bit late to deliver anything now as we near the end phase of negotiations, unless those negotiations never end...


    I'm too old to emigrate now, but if I were young I would leave. It breaks my heart to see what our country has become. I expect I will end my days in the gulags if things keep on the way they are.

    We're just going through a "phase" Fidget or is that a shift? The country is doing just fine, but there was always going to be resistance when something like Brexit happens.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • What do you do baff? Are you still going to China?

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.