Brexit and EU general chit chat

Please treat other members in a friendly and respectful manner: Our Community Guidelines.

  • I think there will be a push to revert to the old ways

    But the old ways didn't feed people enough. Look at the size of young people today, compared to fifty years ago.


    And when I say that companies will run farms, I don't farms as they are today. I believe all food will be grown inside and the industry will probably be run by the supermarkets and/or tech sector.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • But the old ways didn't feed people enough. Look at the size of young people today, compared to fifty years ago.


    And when I say that companies will run farms, I don't farms as they are today. I believe all food will be grown inside and the industry will probably be run by the supermarkets and/or tech sector.

    I think the size of the young people today is a reflection of the food they eat, and lack of any exercise

    Everything we ate years ago we burned off, cycling or walking to work. Kids today get ridden to school in Chelsea tractors, have a parking spot just outside the supermarket door, and seldom step outside their home

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • This is the hypocrisy of many people who want to stay in the EU. They are so duplicitous they will not even concede that EU membership stops them from having the death penalty they so strongly desire.

    I want and voted for our sovereignty. I am not duplicitous.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • The death penalty was abolished in the UK in 1973, don't think we were in the EU then so that point is a non starter

    The EU didn't exist in 1973, but the EEC did, and we were enrolled by Heath in January of that year.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • The EU didn't exist in 1973, but the EEC did, and we were enrolled by Heath in January of that year.

    But Leavers continually tell us that the EEC was nothing like the EU, non political and just a trading group

    You have proved my point

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • This is the hypocrisy of many people who want to stay in the EU. They are so duplicitous they will not even concede that EU membership stops them from having the death penalty they so strongly desire.

    I want and voted for our sovereignty. I am not duplicitous.

    I think you need to study our history properly

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • But Leavers continually tell us that the EEC was nothing like the EU, non political and just a trading group

    You have proved my point

    There is the lie. It was political, but Heath, and other politicians, lied to us.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Not that this is anything to do with the topic, but I seem to recall bryan saying that Heath did tell the electorate that the EEC was intended to be a political union. Have I got that right bryan?

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Not that this is anything to do with the topic, but I seem to recall bryan saying that Heath did tell the electorate that the EEC was intended to be a political union. Have I got that right bryan?

    The answer to that question is in document FCO30/1048. The proof that Heath lied to the electorate is fully documented there.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Not that this is anything to do with the topic, but I seem to recall bryan saying that Heath did tell the electorate that the EEC was intended to be a political union. Have I got that right bryan?

    Correct

    It was to form a union to prevent another world war

    The idea was presented to Churchill but he was only concerned with the threat from the USSR, his famous "Iron Curtain" across Europe

    The EEC/EU has indeed prevented another war, pity we are leaving

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • I know all that, but didn't you say that Heath told the electorate what the EEC was about, because I don't think he did. It's easy in the internet age to go back and check what happened after WW2 and why the EEC was set up, but did the people know this at that time?


    Ps: I'm going to move these posts to the EU thread.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • The answer to that question is in document FCO30/1048. The proof that Heath lied to the electorate is fully documented there.

    I don't know what to make of all this, but came across a link that has a Mail headline at the top of the page which shows that political leaders were very clear about the direction the EEC was going to go in. I was too young, so can't speak of personal experience of this.


    https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/we-were-never-hoodwinked/

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • I think you need to study our history properly

    Why dont you tell me about "our history"? Dont worry I will correct the parts you get wrong just to assist you.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • I don't know what to make of all this, but came across a link that has a Mail headline at the top of the page which shows that political leaders were very clear about the direction the EEC was going to go in. I was too young, so can't speak of personal experience of this.


    https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/we-were-never-hoodwinked/

    People often re-write (or mis-remember) history. It's the same today isn't it? People swearing we are a sovereign country while in the EU and others swearing we are not. It depends upon the individuals definitions of sovereignty.


    Read FCO30/1048 Horizon. That document contains written records and correspondence, and the actual words used. None of it relies upon memory.


    Here it is, and it is scanned copies of correspondence, so no introduction of typing errors, or other 'accidental adjustments' while being digitised.

    scanned copy of FCO30/1048

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Sovereignty is the full right and power of a governing body over itself, without any interference from outside sources or bodies. Britain is the greatest and biggest empire of all it is therefore self explanatory the aforesaid applies to Britain - the United Kingdom and not with any link to another country, state or political body/power.

    The sooner we get sovereignty back in/for the UK the better.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Read FCO30/1048 Horizon. That document contains written records and correspondence, and the actual words used. None of it relies upon memory.

    It's not the memory of civil servants in question here or what they thought or planned, it's whether the public knew that the EEC was heading towards political union and that mail leader from the time, clearly shows it was known. As I say, I cannot speak from direct experience.


    When Churchill made his famous United States of Europe speech, he never intended for Britain to be part of that, so the question is what did the public know in the 70s before we joined the EEC. Need a lot more articles, to know for sure.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • When Churchill made his famous United States of Europe speech, he never intended for Britain to be part of that, so the question is what did the public know in the 70s before we joined the EEC. Need a lot more articles, to know for sure.

    I was there, and i cannot recall every speech or article for the simple reason that I didn't listen to every speech or read every single article. The general message was that the Common Market was a trading bloc only, and the only legislation would be on agreement over the standard of goods.


    Heath lied about many things, including fishing. See here:

    The Betrayal of Britain’s Fishing to the European Union


    Here is an excerpt:

    He goes on to show how Heath tricked the House of Commons, including the Leader of the Opposition, Harold Wilson into believing that the United
    Kingdom had obtained a derogation which would protect fishing interests
    when, as events have proved, he had not done so. He also points out that
    Norway did understand the implications of the Common Fisheries Policy
    (CFP) and voted against joining – a position they have maintained to this day
    and with consequent benefit to their fishing industry and, indeed, to their
    whole economy.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • I've only read a bit of that FCO document so far, but it does make clear that the UK would be subject to European law, it's just a question of whether the people at the time knew this. You say no, Fidget, I was too young, anyone else?

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • And anyway, we'll have left the EU in a few months, so then we can take responsibility (or not) for our own affairs. That's the prize and no more hiding behind the European court.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Britain lead the world before joining the EU. Britain is currently a second rate country. When we leave the EU we will return to better things and the GREAT will be back in GREAT BRITAIN.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • I know all that, but didn't you say that Heath told the electorate what the EEC was about, because I don't think he did. It's easy in the internet age to go back and check what happened after WW2 and why the EEC was set up, but did the people know this at that time?


    Ps: I'm going to move these posts to the EU thread.

    There were as many discussions about this at the time, both on TV and in Parliament and I remember Heath and his union to prevent another war. One of the reasons I was convinced

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Britain lead the world before joining the EU. Britain is currently a second rate country. When we leave the EU we will return to better things and the GREAT will be back in GREAT BRITAIN.

    That is a joke, Britain was known as "the sick man of Europe" with the endless strikes and low productivity

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • And anyway, we'll have left the EU in a few months, so then we can take responsibility (or not) for our own affairs. That's the prize and no more hiding behind the European court.

    Well the polls are narrowing and chances are it will be another hung Parliament

    I don't know which court you refer to, the Human Rights Court is nothing to do with the EU

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • The European Court of Justice.


    I hope we don't get another hung parliament, people's patience would likely explode if there are any more delays to Brexit.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • General election 2019: Major urges support for ex-Tory Brexit rebels

    Sir John Major has urged people to re-elect three MPs who were expelled from the Conservatives for voting against Boris Johnson over Brexit.

    The ex-Tory PM is backing independent candidates David Gauke, Dominic Grieve and Anne Milton, all running against his party in the general election.

    To think I used to like Major....:cursing:


    It's one thing to believe that staying in the EU is in the best interests of this country, it's quite another to do everything possible to undermine and reverse a decision made by a democratic vote.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member to leave a comment.