Judgment Day. Deal or no deal.

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  • Brexit: Theresa May's deal is voted down in historic Commons defeat

    Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit deal has been rejected by 230 votes - the largest defeat for a sitting government in history.

    MPs voted by 432 votes to 202 to reject the deal, which sets out the terms of Britain's exit from the EU on 29 March.

    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has now tabled a vote of no confidence in the government, which could trigger a general election.

    Here's the official BBC story on tonight's events.

  • A General election should be interesting, if it happens. Will anyone believe their manifestos if it says they will 'honour the referendum result'? I reckon any party that says it will push for Remain will get wiped out.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Which is esentially Corbyn's position with staying in the customs unions and besides if the election happens now, that would still mean May as conservative leader. What a mess.

    All the MPs need to do now, is nothing and we leave with no deal, but I fear they will try and seek some kind of minimalist deal with the EU and the cost to us will be £39bn.

  • The circus is in town!

    So, Corbyn wants a general election and wants to stay in the EU aka customs union. Hilarious.

    Why did May put herself through that? There is stubbornness and then there is stupidity.

    Who is the most stupid? May or a massive segment of the Tory party? Theresa May isn't just stupid; she's actually insane. Just because she is not foaming at the mouth or performing a disco dance entrance into the House of Commons or making her speech while strumming a ukulele doesn't mean she is sane. We're dealing here decisions that demonstrate an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder that renders her unfit for undertaking any position of responsibility that would affect other people's welfare. If she was examined by a psychiatrist I am sure that would be the verdict.

    Imagine we were a formidable nuclear power. Would you let this mental zombie make the decision on whether or not to press the button? Or do you think it wouldn't happen because there are others in Government who would override her decision? Really?! Who are these courageous Government members?

  • .... on that, no!

    Most deals with the EU are last minute. I'm hoping they'll see sense. The whole withdrawal agreement doesn't need to be renegotiated, but it does need to be revised. If the negotiating teams were locked up in conference rooms for a week, they could sort it out, if the politicians allowed it.

    Lets not forget the EU is a political construct and it suits those on the continent to give the UK a hard time as a warning to other EU members.

  • OK, I'm pleased that Mays BRINO plan has been rejected. We will soon see whether democracy will be honoured, or denied.

    I will never understand why politicians believe that forcing us to remain in the EU will be successful. We'll end up with a bigger UK version of the SNP fighting for independence. It's over 300 years since Scotland joined the UK, and the fight still goes on!

    If Scotland had won an independence vote, would that have been overturned too? The undemocratic politicians are playing with fire.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • Which is esentially Corbyn's position with staying in the customs unions and besides if the election happens now, that would still mean May as conservative leader. What a mess.

    All the MPs need to do now, is nothing and we leave with no deal, but I fear they will try and seek some kind of minimalist deal with the EU and the cost to us will be £39bn.

    Those shysters Berkow and Grieve will be doing their utmost to derail us leaving , even more so now . Until a brexiteer is put in charge nothing will change.

  • OK, I'm pleased that Mays BRINO plan has been rejected. We will soon see whether democracy will be honoured, or denied.

    I will never understand why politicians believe that forcing us to remain in the EU will be successful. We'll end up with a bigger UK version of the SNP fighting for independence. It's over 300 years since Scotland joined the UK, and the fight still goes on!

    If Scotland had won an independence vote, would that have been overturned too? The undemocratic politicians are playing with fire.

    My MP Keith Simpson voted for May's turd of a deal , he has some explaining to do !

  • Fortunately for us any deal has to be agreed cross party, then voted on and approved by parliament, then taken to the EU for discussions then voted on by the EU 27, once approved they then returned to parliament to be voted on.

    Rice repeat.

    Two years ago May would have been better writing several letters.

    Dear ??? Farmers fisherman industry in general.

    Please increase production because in 2 years time there will be long queues at Dover & our passports won’t work, so we won’t be able to get our 5 a day for a few weeks.

    Few weeks later.

    The ongoing negotiation with the EU over Dover and free trade has been settled. The EU realised that in order to serve the Republic of Ireland they have to cross our sovereign land and water, and it’s s long way round the west coast & back and it’s always bad weather, they blamed the English and felt happier.

    On a lighter note our bananas are now slightly bent and the bus station the EU built in Birkenhead back in 2014 has seen its first bus, technically it was driver Tusks first day and he got lost on the dock road,

    Always on the lighter side.

  • My MP Keith Simpson voted for May's turd of a deal , he has some explaining to do !

    Deselect him!:evil:

    Those shysters Berkow and Grieve will be doing their utmost to derail us leaving , even more so now . Until a brexiteer is put in charge nothing will change.

    Agree, but the only way to get rid of May now is if she steps down (which she clearly won't) or a general election.

  • Fortunately for us any deal has to be agreed cross party, then voted on and approved by parliament, then taken to the EU for discussions then voted on by the EU 27, once approved they then returned to parliament to be voted on.

    My fear, as I've already said in this thread, is that we'll accept some kind of mini-deal/bare-bones deal that includes handing over the £39bn. Don't forget that May agreed to hand over the dosh to the EU immediately without any attempt at negotiation.

    Always on the lighter side.

    Indeed. There aren't bombs dropping on us like other parts of the world.

  • At least May's Hokey Cokey deal is dead as a dodo even if she won't admit it. The EU won't make any cast iron assurances in law that the DUP will accept and have also stated that there are no grounds for re-opening serious negotations. You can't just wish away a defeat of 230 with some vague assurances from the EU.

    I strongly suspect we'll stagger on towards March 29th with crisis after disaster after crisis while the clock ticks down and nothing is agreed: No GE, no "deal", no second referendum, no Irish backstop, no nothing. Just paralysis.

    That of course honours the result of the referendum: We leave properly and keep our £39bn

    I think there'll be a number of simple small agreements about aviation, medicines, food import/export etc to help past the tightest spots, indeed that should have been the objective all along over the past two wasted years, instead of some grand all embracing "deal" which really amounted to kicking the can down the road again. Many a mickle makes a muckle as the Scots say.

  • I agree Heero.

    I don't know how she has the gall to remain PM with such a defeat. The EU has stated they won't change the withdrawal agreement, so we'll see if they stick by that or not.

    On the news last night, it was suggested Corbyn could hold a no-confidence vote in the government everyday, if he so wishes. That would be a nice bit of hokey cokey to keep them all busy until the 29th March.:)

  • I think there'll be a number of simple small agreements about aviation, medicines, food import/export etc to help past the tightest spots, indeed that should have been the objective all along over the past two wasted years, instead of some grand all embracing "deal" which really amounted to kicking the can down the road again. Many a mickle makes a muckle as the Scots say.

    If my memory serves me correctly, then most of this is already completed. Some of it is time limited, ie. for the next 12 months until something more permanent is agreed, and we have the WTO article that guarantees us up to 10 years of tariff free trade until a trade agreement is made with the EU. All this is available, if MP's support he UK and democracy, rather than the EU.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • I think the air travel was one of the first things they agreed to, but the EU has stated (for now) that they will not talk to us about trade unless we have a withdrawal agreement with them.

    In a game of poker where the stakes are high, we need a good player who doesn't show their hand, unfortunately we don't have that as our PM and she already showed her hands a long time ago.

  • I personally think the cross party hand that’s been offered by May has just failed in the first 3 mins.

    No deal off the table, no deal is the default setting for article 50 which MP’s have all ready voted to accept.

    A second referendum people’s vote ? not on Mays watch.....I hope.

    Staying in the customs union....

    free movement of goods, services, capital and labour. you have to decline all 4 you can not cherry pick.


    Extend article 50 with the MEP elections coming up in May/June we would have to field a list of candidates and vote.

    Couple that with a few more no confidence votes & only 37 sitting days for parliament till 29 March.

    Extending will be the only viable deal they could agree on.

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