UK/EU future deal. Should the UK accept a level playing field?

Please treat other members in a constructive and friendly manner: Our Community Guidelines.
  • I have to say that I have nothing but praise for the NHS who dealt with my two cancer diagnoses instantly, Immediate scans to confirm diagnosis and then surgery. In both cases the consultants remarked that I was so lucky to have early diagnosis, cancers were removed and no further treatment required. I now have three monthly scans and reviews

    With urgent serious cases like mine the NHS has been superb, I think the problem is the endless queues of people demanding treatment for "trivial" conditions that any pharmacist could help them on. This plus bed blocking from patients who get free hospital care for relatives that could be treated with home care bu the family would have to pay for, and those who doctors seem reluctant to discharge.

    GP visit, charge £10 a visit

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • I have to say that I have nothing but praise for the NHS who dealt with my two cancer diagnoses instantly, Immediate scans to confirm diagnosis and then surgery. In both cases the consultants remarked that I was so lucky to have early diagnosis, cancers were removed and no further treatment required. I now have three monthly scans and reviews

    With urgent serious cases like mine the NHS has been superb, I think the problem is the endless queues of people demanding treatment for "trivial" conditions that any pharmacist could help them on. This plus bed blocking from patients who get free hospital care for relatives that could be treated with home care bu the family would have to pay for, and those who doctors seem reluctant to discharge.

    GP visit, charge £10 a visit

    Glad you are OK by the way :thumbup:


    Long may it last.


    You might be an old lefty but I kind of like you :)


    What you describe is the very conundrum that is the NHS, brilliant at somethings and absolutely woeful at others.


    The bed blocking comes from the loss of old people homes, there used to be lots of them when I was a kid and my Mum and Dad would drag to one to see an old aunt. They were council run too so they were free.


    Another issue is that GP's don't appear to do anything these days apart from refer you to hospital to see a specialist. Gone are the days when a GP actually did anything. When I was born my Mum was attended at home by our local GP and he saw me into the world and then he was my GP until he retired. You won't get that today.

  • The problem I have seen is that shutting down all the peripheral services such as old people’s homes, local clinics etc and making people use the hospital instead has put excessive load onto hospitals but without the investment to actually allow them to take on this additional work they are over stretched.

    The NHS has had a lot of investment and more is being made available by the government.


    The issue really that the whole service is creaking at the seams and urgently needs modernising. We really need a Royal Commission to look at our health and caring services, consult with all political parties, the medical profession and the public and take the subject out of the political debate. All the political parties should pledge to endorse the recommendations so that the government can work out timelines and be confident that the recommendations themselves are not for political debate.


    Just throwing money at the problem is not the answer.


  • Whatever happened to the "level playing field" that the EU has constantly mentioned since Brexit?


    The EU want us to accept "dynamic alignment" with them, which in affect means abiding by all future EU law, as a way to gain a free trade agreement with them.


    The government has a rocky road ahead of it and it knows full well that it it cedes to EU demands, then that could threaten their chances of reelection.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • You make good points. My perspective is driven by the fact it is compulsory to pay NI so under the circumstances, can it give me what I need? Thus far, it has more than ably given me what I needed, by my own admission my health is generally good and I am a believer in not going to the doctor unless I think I'm dying so I hardly ever use the NHS.


    If I were to pay for medical care I would want to stop paying for the NHS because I don't want to pay for both given my personal health circumstances. So you are right I guess I'm suggesting that providing you don't actually need to lean on the NHS too hard it is fit for purpose.


    Does that make it value for money? Probably not because if I only paid for what I actually used I would have a large pot of cash in a bank somewhere which I could use to pay for the very limited private health care I would have needed in my life to date. Obviously as I age I will probably fall into the clutches of the doctors as most people do in the end. It is something to look forward to...

    From all you've said I think we're both in the same position

  • Post by Norra Batty ().

    This post was deleted by the author themselves: off topic so self moderating ().
  • All very interesting but what has this to do with the EU negotiations?

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • If we agree to accept future EU law and standards, that is not leaving. Isn't Brexit meant to be about leaving the EU?

    Well, I think it is now clear that Boris isn't going to accept the 'level playing field' that the EU is demanding, so I guess the question now is whether we will get a deal at all.


    My view is that there will be a lot of hurtful comments traded over the course of the year, and in the end, we will get a basic tariff-free deal. However, whether we get 'frictionless trade' is another matter, although I would point out that the EU want that as a preference. However, they could also use this as a weapon to beat us with. A bit silly, but there you go.


    I think Boris is right to commence talking in earnest with the US, Asian countries and others about a trade deal, to make the point that the EU is not the be all and end all and could actually lose out if they did not agree a deal by the end of the year.


    My take on this is that common sense will prevail.

  • Someone was filmed going into Downing Street earlier in the week and a long lens captured a shot of the document they were holding and it said htat the UK wanted equivalence as regards to City access. Barnier has scoffed at that


    I just hope that common sense does prevail, but the EU is a political club, one we've now left. I doubt we'll get any favours from them.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • I just hope that common sense does prevail, but the EU is a political club, one we've now left. I doubt we'll get any favours from them.

    So why should we think they will offer a "level playing field"?

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Someone was filmed going into Downing Street earlier in the week and a long lens captured a shot of the document they were holding and it said htat the UK wanted equivalence as regards to City access. Barnier has scoffed at that


    I just hope that common sense does prevail, but the EU is a political club, one we've now left. I doubt we'll get any favours from them.

    Negotiations are all about win win. Once upon a time I would’ve put the accidental peek at a document down as incompetence but nowadays I would see it as a deliberate leek, part of the game. For what it’s worth I think the UK fishermen will get screwed over but in exchange for something we want more.

  • Because it would benefit them as well as us.

    If they needed us they would be more accommodating/ It is a myth put about by Brexiteers that they need us more than we need them, very clearly demonstrated in the recent negotiations

    The truth is that they laugh at us, and couldn't wait to be rid of the whinging all demanding Brits

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • If they needed us they would be more accommodating/ It is a myth put about by Brexiteers that they need us more than we need them, very clearly demonstrated in the recent negotiations

    The truth is that they laugh at us, and couldn't wait to be rid of the whinging all demanding Brits

    You don't know how accommodating they will be yet - negotiations have not even begun!


    Despite what you keep saying, Bryanluc, the EU does need us more. I have pointed out a few times that they export more to us, so they will feel the pain more than us if we don't get a deal.


    I don't know why you keep arguing the reverse - where is the logic there? I can only think that you believe the more often you say it, the more likely we will fail.


    Well, that's not going to happen.

  • Despite what you keep saying, Bryanluc, the EU does need us more. I have pointed out a few times that they export more to us, so they will feel the pain more than us if we don't get a deal.

    This is the standard belief and mantra of Brexiteers, the EU trade here at the moment because they can

    If they sere so desperate as you claim they would have made great efforts to keep us. they didn't

    Proof of the pudding over false beliefs

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • This is the standard belief and mantra of Brexiteers, the EU trade here at the moment because they can

    If they sere so desperate as you claim they would have made great efforts to keep us. they didn't

    Proof of the pudding over false beliefs

    You cannot say it is a false belief because it hasn't been negotiated yet. It's the remainers who are saddled with false beliefs, and slowly but surely, all those false beliefs are beginning to unravel. Just as they said a withdrawal agreement could not be negotiated. Just as they said the backstop could not be re-negotiated. Just as they said we would not be able to leave by January.


    Remainers don't seem to learn when they are proved wrong. And they will be proved wrong this time, too.


    I would like to ask you, Bryanluc, how can you not take as read that the EU's exports to us are greater than ours to the EU? The figures prove it, and that means they would lose out to us in a tariff war.


    How can you believe that our trade will reduce on leaving when we will continue to trade with the EU at pretty well existing levels when we leave, added to which we will be opening up new markets?


    How can you not acknowledge that the EU is expanding at a slower rate than most developed countries and that we would be better off outside of such an undemocratic, failing project?


    I cannot fathom how you fail to see these unquestionable facts and realise that the arguments of the remainers are ridiculous nonsense.


    Well, Brexiteers are not fooled!

  • I have made the same point but the argument resets to default beliefs on a daily basis.


    I think that the EU will try to hit the Finance sector especially Euro trades out of the City of London. It makes up about 20% of the cites annual trades so there will be impact on that but I would expect the bankers to find new markets to plug the gaps. Where there is a bankers bonus there is a way.


    As it stands any debate on this is pretty much pointless, we don't know what will happen, very few people actually do and they are not talking.


    I think the best way to describe it is this. Will will make a big loss somewhere that will have people talking abut the disaster that is Brexit, but they won't see the hundreds of marginal gains that have been made elsewhere that cancel out the loss and put us well ahead. The EU will need to have their very tangible pound of flesh and we will give them something they can hold like a trophy. I'm going with fishing rights but I could be wrong.

  • Well, Brexiteers are not fooled!

    They were fooled in 2016 as time will show

    What they fail to grasp as I have said is that if the EU were so desperate to keep our trade they would have bent over backwards to keep is. They didn't

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • They were fooled in 2016 as time will show

    What they fail to grasp as I have said is that if the EU were so desperate to keep our trade they would have bent over backwards to keep is. They didn't

    What are you on about? The figures show that the EU would lose out. What exactly is your argument to the contrary?


    It all sounds like left-wing defeatism to me. You seem to be implying also that the EU has lost trade already. What exactly do you mean?


    As I have said again and again, trade will be much the same as it is now when we leave. The only question is whether it comes with or without tariffs in the future.

  • As I have said again and again, trade will be much the same as it is now when we leave. The only question is whether it comes with or without tariffs in the future.

    Tariffs

    These are the things that put prices up and reduce sales

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Think about it, your wonderful post Brexit Shangrila

    I have no idea what you are on about, I am afraid. Your comment is perfectly correct, but I can't see its relevance to the conversation.


    It is for the very reason you have highlighted that both the EU and the UK would prefer to have a tariff-free trade deal. That is what the political declaration states.


    You are entitled to your views, of course, but to rubbish everything the government is trying to achieve without reason is a little disingenous because such comments cannot be taken seriously.


    I have given you reasons why it is my view that a tariff-free deal will be negotiated. I am not clear what you have to say that contradicts my opinion, although I would be pleased to debate that with you.

  • You are entitled to your views, of course, but to rubbish everything the government is trying to achieve without reason is a little disingenous because such comments cannot be taken seriously.

    It's quite simple, I do not believe that the government is or will be acting in the best interests of all the UK citizens. I think they will simply want to leave the EU regardless, such is their dogma

    Food prices are high enough now driving many to use Food Banks, this will only get worse once we lose the cheaper stuff coming in from the EU. And I do not believe in this panacea of trade from the rest of the world coming in the same or cheaper - shipping costs for a start

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • It's quite simple, I do not believe that the government is or will be acting in the best interests of all the UK citizens. I think they will simply want to leave the EU regardless, such is their dogma

    Food prices are high enough now driving many to use Food Banks, this will only get worse once we lose the cheaper stuff coming in from the EU. And I do not believe in this panacea of trade from the rest of the world coming in the same or cheaper - shipping costs for a start

    OK, fair enough if that's your view. However, the rhetoric coming out of the UK Government and the EU is just that. It is the precursor to the negotiations.


    As far as food prices are concerned, we can just as easily buy our food from other countries - the EU is not the sole provider of any food (thank God), and it might surprise you to learn that imported food from elsewhere is likely to be cheaper, not more expensive, even when taking account of shipping costs. That is because, amongst other things, those countries benefit from a cheaper labour force and/or increased efficiency.