New Chinese virus spreads

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  • Sadly I think this is exactly what the government are doing in a roundabout kind of way. It's like they are setting the path and boundaries with rules that they know are either impossible for folk to abide by or will blatantly break and protest against. Some of them are actually endangering us more so anyone with any sense will break them as it's a matter of survival of the fittest. It's difficult to say whether it's deliberate or not or if it's through incompetence and greed but we are in the millionaires club now for COVID deaths. That's pretty good going for island. And now they reckon this so called second wave is going to be bigger than the first. I would like to know how they predict this. It's like it's all pre-planned. The new years should be interesting after everyone has had the family visiting each other and having Christmas dinner. We could easily still be living with with the uncertainty with lock down, no lockdown, back to lockdown again this time next year.

    For a virus where the percentage of deaths is less than 1%, Herd Immunity is about ceasing to run around in ever decreasing circles trying aimlessly or helplessly to kill off coronavirus and instead stand back and rely on survival of the fittest, where one's health can either help to avoid infection or help shake off the infection). The less fit (in the older age groups) will be advised to protect themselves, ie reduce the probabilityof becoming infected ..... and if they hadn't by now figured that out then they're already in God's Waiting Room. .

    Only dotty jenny would describe that decision as euthanasia. It's more a Dirty Harry philosophy: "a man's gotta know his limitations". In the hyper-indulgent identity politics demonic-democracy that has run riot, there are too many people who don't know their limitations and too many governments who can't bring themselves to admit their's and therefore neither side willing to face reality. At the other end of scale there is Asia and the Far East, where governments know where to draw the line and its citizens are sufficiently mature or respectful to to abide or comply with where that line has been drawn or face the consequences (or like Hong Kong youth, eventually find out what happens if they overstep the line).

  • For a virus where the percentage of deaths is less than 1%, Herd Immunity is about ceasing to run around in ever decreasing circles trying aimlessly or helplessly to kill off coronavirus and instead stand back and rely on survival of the fittest, where one's health can either help to avoid infection or help shake off the infection). The less fit (in the older age groups) will be advised to protect themselves, ie reduce the probabilityof becoming infected ..... and if they hadn't by now figured that out then they're already in God's Waiting Room. .

    Only dotty jenny would describe that decision as euthanasia. It's more a Dirty Harry philosophy: "a man's gotta know his limitations". In the hyper-indulgent identity politics demonic-democracy that has run riot, there are too many people who don't know their limitations and too many governments who can't bring themselves to admit their's and therefore neither side willing to face reality. At the other end of scale there is Asia and the Far East, where governments know where to draw the line and its citizens are sufficiently mature or respectful to to abide or comply with where that line has been drawn or face the consequences (or like Hong Kong youth, eventually find out what happens if they overstep the line).

    There is a part of me that wishes you would get this disease. I don't go so far as to wish you dead of course, but perhaps a period of time on a ventilator, and seeing your family worried sick might take some of the ridiculous ideas about taking this all as something we have to just accept and allow to run its course out of your fat head.

    The bare bones of the matter is that the virus won't just run its course. Allowed to run free, it will simply spread wider and wider. More and more people will die. The virus doesn't think along the lines of preserving a proportion of its host population so that it doesn't die out by default when the last human is dead. The virus doesn't think at all. It is not a sentient organism. Its entire life cycle works on the basis of invading the next available host.

    Coronavirus re-infections - The Lancet

    Now, The Lancet is a medical journal that features contributions from clever people who know what they're talking about. So, put your arrogant belief that you know it all to one side for five minutes and have a read.

    Read this snip and try to understand it. I know the piece uses a lot of big words that you're not used to, but try to understand the general gist.

    In The Lancet Infectious Diseases, Richard L Tillett and colleagues describe the first confirmed case of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in the USA.2
    A 25-year-old man from the US state of Nevada, who had no known immune disorders, had PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection in April, 2020 (cycle threshold [Ct] value 35·24; specimen A). He recovered in quarantine, testing negative by RT-PCR at two consecutive timepoints thereafter. However, 48 days after the initial test, the patient tested positive again by RT-PCR (Ct value 35·31; specimen B). Viral genome sequencing showed that both specimens A and B belonged to clade 20C, a predominant clade seen in northern Nevada. However, the genome sequences of isolates from the first infection (specimen A) and reinfection (specimen B) differed significantly, making the chance of the virus being from the same infection small. What is worrisome is that SARS-CoV-2 reinfection resulted in worse disease than did the first infection, requiring oxygen support and hospitalisation. The patient had positive antibodies after the reinfection, but whether he had pre-existing antibody after the first infection is unknown

    In layman's terms, this indicates that it is possible for a person to be re-infected with COVID 19, not as a hangover from the first infection, but as a completely new infection.

    If it becomes established that new infections, unrelated to first infection, can occur, then any possibility of herd immunity is either greatly reduced or rendered impossible.


    Simply put then, the virus will have to be contained by human activity. It won't die out by antibody production and - in the very worst case scenario - could feasibly continue until the last human being is dead.*

    Dirty Harry indeed. FFS........... I think you've had that daft hat on, under a hot sun, for too long.

    If re-infection of this kind can occur, then the best way to ensure maximum levels of immunity is for an effective vaccine to be found. This would require an initial programme of innoculation, continued by a follow up programme of regular booster shots over an established period of time.

    Obviously, an international programme of monitoring of the virus (for possible mutation), the continued effectiveness of the vaccine and ongoing research into refining and / or improving the vaccine must be set up. It may be possible to completely eradicate COVID 19 in the future. That would remain to be seen.

    This would be incredibly expensive. Nations would have to contribute vastly to the programme. Oh dear... governments are going to have to spend money on something other than giving tax breaks to already rich people. How fucking sad.


    Dirty Harry philosophy......... Bloody hell. Where do people like that come from..... Jeeeezzus.... God help us....................


    *I know..... extremely... EXTREMELY...... unlikely, but that's the route in which the sort of thinking endorsed by Tossablanca takes us down. He's the one proposing daft ideas.

  • e.

    Obviously, an international programme of monitoring of the virus (for possible mutation), the continued effectiveness of the vaccine and ongoing research into refining and / or improving the vaccine must be set up. It may be possible to completely eradicate COVID 19 in the future. That would remain to be seen.

    We spent 43 years attempting to develop a vaccine for the common cold (another coronavirus) and you think we may find one for Covid. Not a chance, not a chance in hell. We will continue to be fed crap in the belief we keep our heads up, but it won't happen. Give people the info they need, then let's get on with life. The country/world is horribly over populated with a vial specie, and needs cutting down, even eradicated. Let us not forget, this came from a wet market in China, so perhaps nature is trying to tell us something?

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • In layman's terms, this indicates that it is possible for a person to be re-infected with COVID 19, not as a hangover from the first infection, but as a completely new infection.


    If it becomes established that new infections, unrelated to first infection, can occur, then any possibility of herd immunity is either greatly reduced or rendered impossible.

    It was a different strain of the virus, and it is what I have been banging on about for some time. The longer this virus is suppressed, the more likely it will mutate or other strains emerge.

    Only a very small minority have been re-infected in this way so far. So we need to act now to let the virus get through the healthy population, where the impact will be hugely less than if at-risk groups are exposed to it, before the worst case scenario becomes reality.

    Herd immunity is the only way to go, and you will have this confirmed in the final analysis. All the government and their experts have ever tried to achieve through lockdowns is to slow it down so that hospitals can cope. Lockdowns were not designed to eradicate it altogether - that simply won’t work.

  • Herd immunity is the only way to go, and you will have this confirmed in the final analysis. All the government and their experts have ever tried to achieve through lockdowns is to slow it down so that hospitals can cope. Lockdowns were not designed to eradicate it altogether - that simply won’t work.

    Indeed. It was the fear that the NHS would be overwhelmed that has driven the entire response. In reality if things had let rip then triage would take over: You only treat those who will survive if treated. Those who will survive if not treated and those who will die anyway are denied treatment.

    It's how the military operate on the battlefield when there are more casualties than resources can treat.

  • It was a different strain of the virus, and it is what I have been banging on about for some time. The longer this virus is suppressed, the more likely it will mutate or other strains emerge.

    Only a very small minority have been re-infected in this way so far. So we need to act now to let the virus get through the healthy population, where the impact will be hugely less than if at-risk groups are exposed to it, before the worst case scenario becomes reality.

    Herd immunity is the only way to go, and you will have this confirmed in the final analysis. All the government and their experts have ever tried to achieve through lockdowns is to slow it down so that hospitals can cope. Lockdowns were not designed to eradicate it altogether - that simply won’t work.

    You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

    I give up with you people. You have no qualification or knowledge of the subject and yet you ignore educated, informed analysis out of hand.

    I could write reams on this subject and you'd pooh-pooh it out of hand on the basis of nil knowledge of the subject, but referring instead to a near 50 year old movie as incontrovertible evidence that your opinion is correct.

    Read this: Herd Immunity Is Not Going To Happen.

    And Bibbles..... Specie is cash money. Species is a group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes and interbreeding (not necessarily "mutating", but you lot wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I wrote it on a mallet and hit you over the head with it) . The species is the principal natural taxonomic unit, ranking below a genus and denoted by Latin binomial.

    I've told you this at least three times on various posts where you've made this primary school error. Do try to learn something for once in your life.

    Before you can fully understand the subject matter under discussion, you have to have a basic grasp of common terminology. It may not matter to you in your mind, but it makes it almost impossible to get simple concepts over if you can't at least understand the most rudimentary nomenclature.

  • Rather than accepting the "inevitable", good men and women are busting body and soul to save the likes of you.

    They're not quitters. They don't have faint hearts. They work, then work, then work some more to save the likes of you.

    They won't give up on you. They're made of tougher stuff than you. They are worthy of your admiration and respect.

    Thank goodness we have more people like them, than you.

    bringing-you-back-from-the-brink.jpg

  • Herd immunity FFS it's possible that one may be resistant up to 3 months but in those 3 months one is still a carrier much like the children and can spread it on to those who are weaker. Old boy is right that herd immunity will eventually work but the virus is going to weed off the weak first. Now how this is done, allowed to happen is the big dilemma. Do we have some form of controlled lockdowns that target the less well off and poor in society, the general population rather than the corporate giants, lords and ladies. Or do we just have a free for all and let it take it's own natural path. Eventually that herd immunity level may build up to 6 months and maybe more.

    There is always the chance that the virus will mutate and get stronger so it's a tug of war between the virus and peoples own natural antibodies. Maybe folk should stop with all the sanitizer rubbish and actually take onboard some viral load / germs and build up a better immune system. Maybe folk should stop wearing all the masks, maybe folk should only take a bath or shower once a week. Learn to live in some dirt and grime and build up a natural immunity to germs and disease. This starts at a young age but these days mothers go all OCD if their baby crawls in some dirt or puts it in their mouth. It's no wonder many have weak immune systems as they grow older.

    Vaccinations are pie in the sky, maybe we will get a placebo or a nanotech chip though. Personally I wouldn't trust anything that the government say and do and TBH I am fast starting to lose faith in the doctors as I hear so many of them siding with the government especially the celebrity docs on TV. I think they are on the government pay slip and being used as influencers rather than professional medical advisers. Much of medical world these days just tick box's and fill in the forms to comply with what they are told from above by either trust mangers and / or the health department / ministers. FFS the majority of them don't even diagnose and look at a computer screen with preset conditions these days. If suffering from symptom A then go to C and and ask the patient the following question. If the patient replies 'Yes' then go to B, if the patient answers 'No' then go to D etc. Ask the patient if they are a smoker. If 'Yes' then send to the back of the queue and put a permanent black mark on their computer record so this can be shared with health insurance companies. :whistling:

  • I still can’t get over the arrogance of your posts! You can give us your opinion without being rude and without telling the rest of us we don’t know what we’re talking about simply because we disagree with you. Since when have you been an expert?

    Scientists are divided on this issue, as you must have read by now, and what you are failing to comprehend is that lockdowns are simply trying to convert peaks into plateaux in the knowledge that herd immunity will eventually do the trick.

    You must learn to use these forums to discuss rather than put down anyone who won’t go along with your point of view. If you want total agreement to everything you say, make more use of the ‘forums’ that exist for Left wing and other muddled people. Sorry, scratch that last bit....:D

  • Rather than accepting the "inevitable", good men and women are busting body and soul to save the likes of you.

    They're not quitters. They don't have faint hearts. They work, then work, then work some more to save the likes of you.

    They won't give up on you. They're made of tougher stuff than you. They are worthy of your admiration and respect.

    Thank goodness we have more people like them, than you.

    bringing-you-back-from-the-brink.jpg

    No-one has questioned the dedication of the hospital consultants, doctors and nurses. Is this deliberate deflection on your part, Jenny?

  • Herd immunity FFS it's possible that one may be resistant up to 3 months but in those 3 months one is still a carrier much like the children and can spread it on to those who are weaker. Old boy is right that herd immunity will eventually work but the virus is going to weed off the weak first. Now how this is done, allowed to happen is the big dilemma. Do we have some form of controlled lockdowns that target the less well off and poor in society, the general population rather than the corporate giants, lords and ladies. Or do we just have a free for all and let it take it's own natural path. Eventually that herd immunity level may build up to 6 months and maybe more.

    The scientists are starting to realise that T-cells play a big part in resisting infection and that these cells recognise previous infections and remember how to defeat them. So it is likely that resistance to infection lasts a lot longer than the anti-bodies.

    The way forward is indeed to protect at-risk groups. It’s the only option that makes sense. That way, we expose those who are more likely to suffer no symptoms or simply fight it off as they would with other viruses. There would still be casualties, but far less than would otherwise be the case.

    Wreck the economy and the medical staff that we all revere won’t get paid.

  • I still can’t get over the arrogance of your posts! You can give us your opinion without being rude and without telling the rest of us we don’t know what we’re talking about simply because we disagree with you. Since when have you been an expert?

    Scientists are divided on this issue, as you must have read by now, and what you are failing to comprehend is that lockdowns are simply trying to convert peaks into plateaux in the knowledge that herd immunity will eventually do the trick.

    You must learn to use these forums to discuss rather than put down anyone who won’t go along with your point of view. If you want total agreement to everything you say, make more use of the ‘forums’ that exist for Left wing and other muddled people. Sorry, scratch that last bit....:D

    How patronising, coming from somebody who makes snide comments and loftily and arrogantly proclaims himself an expert on every subject, refusing to listen to any alternative point of view himself while instructing others to listen to him.

    I've repeatedly attempted to "discuss" making relevant, factual arguments backed up by reliable supporting evidence only to have them pooh-pooh'd out of hand by your lofty hubris and arrogance.

    Everybody who doesn't agree with you is a "leftie snowflake" aren't they..? It's a throwaway line that absolves you of any obligation to challenge an opposing viewpoint with fact. You have plenty of opinion... like all big mouthed bigots..... but you never resort to any facts.

    Big mouthed bigot. All opinion. Never any fact.

    I use a number of discussion forums and indeed, I come on here specifically to find the "alternative" point of view. I take what I read on here and spread it around other sites to insert that viewpoint into the discussions there. Needless to say, your views in particular are met with scorn and often with derision. But then, you'd waft that away too with your usual smug ripostes such as "leftie snowflakes".

    I'm using a number of sources to get a broad view of the public debate. You are sitting in your comfort zone, among other right wing extremists, safe and unchallenged by anybody but me. And as I say.... you listen to no contrary argument about anything. You're as deaf as deaf can be. I doubt you even know that there are other forums out there.

    No, I want to keep coming here just so that I never lose sight of the fact that there is a pernicious element in our society, desperate to see its own death wish fulfilled. Thankfully, it is restricted to the limited intelligence community (yourself included. Prominently) that has no influence over real events. You can say anything you like from your armchair while the real people, who know what they're doing and know what they're talking about get on with trying to overcome this virus. They're the people who matter, not some ageing fascist in an armchair somewhere.

    I'm not going to argue against your death wish scenario any longer because it's a waste of time, effort and energy. You won't listen. But thankfully, the sheer balls up that your government is making of everything is being noted by the British people and it will be called to account at the proper time, and in the proper way.

    The search for a vaccine goes on. The success or failure of that search won't be for want of trying.

    And I bet that if / when one is discovered you will be the first in the queue to take benefit from it. Hypocrite.

  • Jenny, it is called having a discussion. You are entitled to disagree with me and I with you, but you don’t need to take it so personally.

    If you want people to agree with you all the time, this is not the forum for you. However, I for one appreciate hearing your alternative take on things and on some subjects, we actually do agree.

    You do make many assumptions, however. That last one about me wanting to be first in the queue to benefit from a vaccine is one of them. I don’t want to put a rushed-through vaccine into my body, thank you very much. The last such vaccine, for SARS, caused narcolepsy in an unacceptably high number of the population and had to be withdrawn.

    Oh, and I don’t go to sleep every night dreaming about empire either, while we’re at it!!

  • Have you noticed anything, the rest of the forum have given their opinions and solutions, whilst all you have done is tell us we are wrong. For some unexplainable reason you believe every life is sacred, when in reality every human life is just one 1/7.8 billionth of our SPECIE. The thing is we don't actually know what your opinions are, so we have to guess them. We do know that you don't want people living their lives and enjoying themselves, and we do know that you don't believe in herd immunity, other than that we know very little else about what you think.

    You don't appear to grasp the fact that a suffering economy will mean a suffering NHS, and in turn more people will die of unrelated covid diseases than they ever will of covid. The government, and it's opposition only have short term strategy, and this is also reflected in just about every decision they ever make. If we lose to many lives between now and the next general election, the opposition will get in, and that's all that matters to them. Like I said in a previous post, Sweden's plan has worked, yet we still choose to refute their success because we went the other way. Deaths in Sweden in the last week have been 15, and I would guess 14 of those were either very old or very sick. I appreciate they have a very different demographic to us, but all the same, they still have large towns and cities where the virus can spread. It's time to open up and allow the survival of the fittest strategy to take place. Reserve the hospital beds for the younger people, and the people who can offer society something positive. Give the old and the sick an Aspirin and tell them to wrap up warm and go to bed !!

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • I just ignore the two Hatred mongers in this forum who continually attack the UK and it's people. When they learn to debate properly without personally attacking anybody who has a different opinion to themselves, they might find that people will enter into discussions with them. :D

    The Voice of Reason

  • I just ignore the two Hatred mongers in this forum who continually attack the UK and it's people. When they learn to debate properly without personally attacking anybody who has a different opinion to themselves, they might find that people will enter into discussions with them. :D

    I have been posting on forums like these for years, and it's something the left always do. Left wingers tend to be emotive, rather than logical in their thinking. This means they rarely have a decent argument, and as a result will attack anyone with a different opinion.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • If re-infection of this kind can occur, then the best way to ensure maximum levels of immunity is for an effective vaccine to be found.

    But since the second infection was significantly different from the first infection, there is no reason to think the vaccine would be effective for anything other than the specific infection it was devised to create immunity to.

    They say that you can only catch a cold once and each time you get a cold it is a different virus or strain from the previous. How many colds have you had in your life? Influenza deaths remain higher each week than for Covid but for some reason they are not a cause for concern even though there is an annual vaccine available for this. The logic for a lockdown for a disease which is less deadly than influenza is difficult to process. I wonder what the impact would be if we used track and trace and specific testing for influenza, we would find it everywhere all of the time with many people being asymptomatic or slightly unwell and some feeling quite unwell, much the same as with Covid, some will unfortunate expire due to being infected with either. As the virus continually changes no vaccine can be a one time shot, the influenza vaccine is only offered to vulnerable groups, others are expected to take their chances unprotected, for the overwhelming majority it isn't a problem. I don't see Covid as being significantly different. It's just another bug we have to deal with, keeping us all locked down is killing our immune system because we don't catch anything to keep the system topped up. Maybe this is the agenda? Make us all weak and then legislate to keep us permanently locked down to save us? What is this obsession with making life as long as possible?

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • But since the second infection was significantly different from the first infection, there is no reason to think the vaccine would be effective for anything other than the specific infection it was devised to create immunity to.

    They say that you can only catch a cold once and each time you get a cold it is a different virus or strain from the previous. How many colds have you had in your life? Influenza deaths remain higher each week than for Covid but for some reason they are not a cause for concern even though there is an annual vaccine available for this. The logic for a lockdown for a disease which is less deadly than influenza is difficult to process. I wonder what the impact would be if we used track and trace and specific testing for influenza, we would find it everywhere all of the time with many people being asymptomatic or slightly unwell and some feeling quite unwell, much the same as with Covid, some will unfortunate expire due to being infected with either. As the virus continually changes no vaccine can be a one time shot, the influenza vaccine is only offered to vulnerable groups, others are expected to take their chances unprotected, for the overwhelming majority it isn't a problem. I don't see Covid as being significantly different. It's just another bug we have to deal with, keeping us all locked down is killing our immune system because we don't catch anything to keep the system topped up. Maybe this is the agenda? Make us all weak and then legislate to keep us permanently locked down to save us? What is this obsession with making life as long as possible?

    I agree with all of that, which just makes me wonder what the government know we don't.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • Right, if he chose to keep everything going (as I would) he would of received massive criticism. He is now being condemned from all corners for another lock down. If he had locked down when the Daft Party (Labour) had of suggested it, the economy would have been damaged even more, and he would have been criticized for bowing down to Sir Idiot. Let's face it Jenny, it didn't matter what he did, he would have been on to a loser.

    Let me get this straight, I am not a Tory, because as you well know my politics fall very right of that, however, regardless of who you vote for, or who the leader is, they would feel very punch drunk by now. Throughout all of this all you have manged to do is to condemn the government, but you still haven't told us what you would do?

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

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