Legalise Drugs

Please treat other members in a constructive and friendly manner: Our Community Guidelines.
  • So you think drugs don't fuel crime, Well, that's an opinion, but one that many would share

    No that's not what I said. I said the exact opposite and this is another reason why it need to be taken out of the hands of criminality.

    Quote


    The fact of the matter is that crime and illegal drugs in particular which feeds many other crimes


    I think that the reduction in tobacco smoking is more to do with the sky high price increases

    Some of it is but most folk have now moved over to vaping. It's been cleaned up as should all the over drugs on the market.


    All those that are buying what they think are duty free are putting themselves in even more danger unless they have been abroad themselves to buy them. Many are fake cigarettes which (seems silly saying this) are bad for your health or should I say worse than genuine cigarettes. Hard to believe that something can be worse than a genuine cigarette but it's true. Many Eastern European gangs pushing this market as with any other drug. A black market the same as a fake Rolex watch or latest fashion item or indeed what we call illegal drugs. The people that buy these are feeding big crime in the exact same way. And you can guarantee the guy selling them to folk down the local pub will also be claiming benefits. Even the local corner shop that has them under the counter can't guarantee the source of where they came from. As with cannabis it's easier to make/grow on home turf than risk passing customs.

    Alcohol for most people is treated with respect and relatively harmless.

    You really are in cloud cuckoo land. You must be a drinker. You should stop taking that drug. Here lays the problem because alcohol has been an accepted drug for such a long time and many are addicted they can't see the similarities with alcohol and other drugs. Drug addicts are selfish and can never see the light through the trees and are stuck in their own ways. The bottom line is that alcoholics and junkies are one of the same except they choose different drugs.


    People need to accept that alcohol is one of the most addictive drugs on the planet but many can't do that because it then puts them in the same boat as what is labelled as a junkie so just stick to calling it alcohol as it sounds not as bad and makes it socially accepted. Not many want to admit they have an addiction and will use manipulative tactics to continue with their habits while having a go at those that take other drugs so can continue with their own. It's like a political diversion tactic. Take the pressure off one by making another look bad.


    I've worked in pubs before and have seen the same old regular customers in daily with their blotchy red face and shaky hands and desperate to get their daily fix. It wont be long before youngsters that are out on the piss most nights end up like that. Give them a few years and then eventually their will be taking up NHS resources with Liver problems or maybe they just fall over and bang their head or get into a fight. Drunk = high, changing you brainwaves and altering your perception along with a buzz. There's even a term for it; 'there's a buzzing atmosphere in this pub tonight'. Now that could be because people are on a natural high or they have had the helping hand of a drug. Pubs are drug dens, from opium bar to alcohol bar.

  • We must never go soft on drugs. The very idea of making it easier will be the end of civilised society. Drugs are evil and we should double our efforts to rid them from this country and in fact everywhere but let’s starts with the UK. If there are drugs havens in other parts of the world maybe the druggy scum can go there and finish themselves off away from our view.

  • We must never go soft on drugs. The very idea of making it easier will be the end of civilised society. Drugs are evil and we should double our efforts to rid them from this country and in fact everywhere but let’s starts with the UK. If there are drugs havens in other parts of the world maybe the druggy scum can go there and finish themselves off away from our view.

    Absolutely, and well said.

    Don't make me angry

  • Of course I drink alcohol,and most people do. To be honest, all the people I have ever met that refuse to drink any alcohol are generally very boring people. That said, I am not defending the harm it can do to people. Fortunately the tax income from alcohol far outweighs the money society has to spend on the problems it causes, and that's a fact. Legalise hard drugs, and I think you will find that won't be the case at all. Believing that taking the drugs out of the hands of the pushers will sort the problem is naive to say the least. Regardless of where they are purchased from the addiction requires funding, and whilst you can buy a can of beer from Tesco for 40p, I can't see that being the case with heroin. Like have I said 3 or 4 times already, it's not worth comparing alcohol or tobacco with hard drugs, because the former is legal, and we are where we are with it. Hard drugs are a problem, and legalising them will make the problem worse. I find it hard to understand how anyone can't see that.

    Don't make me angry

  • Someone will be along shortly to tell us that the duty on alcohol more than covers the NHS costs of treating abusers

    Yeah, right !

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • We must never go soft on drugs. The very idea of making it easier will be the end of civilised society. Drugs are evil and we should double our efforts to rid them from this country and in fact everywhere but let’s starts with the UK. If there are drugs havens in other parts of the world maybe the druggy scum can go there and finish themselves off away from our view.

    So we just let the problem continue. I'm sorry, but this is not the way forward. I don't know how long it will take before this issue is confronted head on.


    People can be persuaded not to take drugs, or to come off them before the habit takes hold. But that's only if you control the supply. Under the present environment, there is no control, and pushers actually encourage the addiction because that's how they make their money.


    I did not say we should make it easier to obtain drugs. You may not realise this, but drugs are extremely easy to obtain now, and so making them available under controlled conditions will not make it easier.


    You can come down hard on people as an alternative, but you need to accept that it will make no difference. It is futile to just increase the punishments, as experience has shown. We need a better way.

  • Drug taking and abuse increases by the day

    Imprison offenders and they will think they are kiddies in a sweety shop

    Either we legalise them and let addicts buy them from their local pharmacy or just make them free

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • We must never ever open the door even slightly to legalised drugs.

  • Drug taking and abuse increases by the day

    Imprison offenders and they will think they are kiddies in a sweety shop

    Either we legalise them and let addicts buy them from their local pharmacy or just make them free

    Or just execute them

    Don't make me angry

  • We must never ever open the door even slightly to legalised drugs.

    Given that the present arrangements don't work, I think we should.


    1. It would immediately reduce crime because drug lords would no longer be able to operate profitably as they do now. The risks simply would not be worth it any more. Just as was seen at the end of prohibition in America, the alcohol barons scrambled to legitimise their activities once alcohol was legalised again.


    2. It would ensure that anyone purchasing drugs would have to go to designated outlets to ensure that they received appropriate advice on the risks of taking the drugs that were being requested. Those taking drugs could be monitored and counselling given as required. Regular GP appointments would be mandatory and an appropriate price would be charged for drugs.


    3. Tax would be imposed on these drugs, ensuring that the Exchequer was able to fund these services.


    4. Petty crime rates would be much reduced, because drugs would be less expensive and a higher success rate in prevention and weaning people off drugs would be achieved.


    5. Fatalities due to impure drugs or variable purity factors would be eliminated. People dying at pop festivals for this reason would be eliminated.


    Whereas, simply increasing penalties achieves what, exactly? Same old, same old...

  • A little Hitleresque, don't you think?

    No, it would be a quick a painless death. The vast majority of people who get hooked on drugs are a cost to society, and offer nothing. Perhaps if people knew the outcome, then they would think twice before they popped their first pill. Some of the best answers to complex problems are simple ideas.

    Don't make me angry

  • 5. Fatalities due to impure drugs or variable purity factors would be eliminated. People dying at pop festivals for this reason would be eliminated.

    The only good thing about drug takers is the potential outcome they face. Another reason NOT to legalise drugs

    Don't make me angry

  • Exactly and not only that but it creates huge employment within the law instead of out. Not everyone is going to want to go and take heroin simply because it can be bought. But supply the medical equivalent as they do now for pain control and it would help many. It not only gets them away from the circles they are in now but they are getting something clean which they can function perfectly well on. You have Heroin addicts in places like Amsterdam that go along to the clinic or centre or whatever you want to call it in the morning, they get supplied clean needles in a clinical and safe environment where they can get their fix and 30 mins later they are off to work for the day. Many fully functioning Heroin addicts about and they don't all walk around totally off their face like some kind of media portrayed dirty drug addict looking for the next house to rob. It's all controlled not so much as way to make profit but to actually help people and give them support to try and reduce the addiction or at least get them away from the criminal environment.


    Then we have the likes of club drugs. Youngsters should be able to buy these in their cleanest form with regulated doses. Have a shop type place inside the clubs just as some other clubs will have a licensed bar. Most pill popping clubbers are not interested in alcohol, that would be a bad combination. Right now many are having to break into an old warehouse or something and organise their own events and their own dealers or it's some old waste land or field somewhere.


    Cocaine is a difficult one to deal with and categorise as it has so many users and is often associated with going out drinking as well as socialising and private parties or even sitting indoors with you partner in front of the TV. It's widespread just like Cannabis. My feeling here is that it should be sold but under some form of control and obviously clean and not mixed with other crap. This drug is the worst out of the lot because not only is it more subtle but is so widespread and brings in big profit margins for the dealers. It easy to mix with other substances to gain more profit and it's easy to hide. All you need is a little vile type thing on a necklace around you neck or something to keep it in and take a little snort like snuff as as when you feel. This drug is more dangerous than Heroin in some ways and certainly more widespread. Not amongst what you would call the druggie world so much but your middle class family and businessmen from bankers, stock exchange, MPs, JP's and chefs and many other businesses. This is a daily toot for many just to get their work done and keep them going as well as to go along with an after work drink down the city cocktail bar or private club.


    All those drugs above should be controlled and made safe as well as handing out education and support. Cannabis quite frankly is the most ridiculous one of the lot as we should simply have cafe's / coffee shop type places. Instead of Opium bars we can have Cannabis bars. Also everyone should legally be allowed to grow up to six plants at home if they so desired. IIRC six is the limit right now and classed as personal instead or supply. This drug should be accessible as alcohol. It can be smoked, vaped, eaten. It will get many away form the evil alcohol environment where they are mixing the now and is causing problems. We need to pull them away from the pub/bar type environments where they end up fighting in the streets and all kinds of other chaotic and anti social behaviour. Give people an alcohol free environment they can socialise in. Why are we so intent in trying to turn everyone towards alcohol, the most dangerous drug in the world and causes more problems than all the others put together, minus the criminal aspect.

  • Question. If cigarettes were not legal, would more or less people smoke. Please, just yes or no

    Don't make me angry

  • No, it would be a quick a painless death. The vast majority of people who get hooked on drugs are a cost to society, and offer nothing. Perhaps if people knew the outcome, then they would think twice before they popped their first pill. Some of the best answers to complex problems are simple ideas.

    I can just imagine the political debate if any party added this idea to their manifesto! I'm afraid that this idea will not fly!

  • Question. If cigarettes were not legal, would more or less people smoke. Please, just yes or no

    Yes or no will not provide an answer to your question. Think about it. What are you on??!;)


    The answer is that smoking would just go underground. Prohibition did not prevent those wanting a drink from drinking. It won't prevent those who like smoking from smoking.


    We need to learn from experience. Your way of dealing with this is understandable, but it is completely ineffective.

  • Norra Batty


    I'm going to copy your excellent post about drugs from the sentencing thread and attach it to the first post here, so everyone can see it. Was meaning to do it two weeks ago, sorry. Hopefully I might get round to responding to it later today too.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Yes or no will not provide an answer to your question. Think about it. What are you on??!;)


    The answer is that smoking would just go underground. Prohibition did not prevent those wanting a drink from drinking. It won't prevent those who like smoking from smoking.


    We need to learn from experience. Your way of dealing with this is understandable, but it is completely ineffective.

    You didn't answer my question because you know it would prove you wrong. Whether or not it was driven underground, less people would smoke. The same can be said for drugs. Whilst we have a problem, legalising them would just send out the message it's OK to take drugs. As a result more people would take drugs, and the problem would escalate. Yes, the drugs would be more pure, and yes the government would get some tax. Believing the drugs barons would not exist is naive, they would just be undercutting the legitimate suppliers. Very few people I know pay the full price for fags, and I can't see it being different with drugs.

    Don't make me angry

  • Norra's posts are now copied into the first post of this thread.


    I would attack this slightly differently and rather than locking people up for longer I would work more on rehabilitation and help.

    I agree, to a point.


    Drug crimes need abolishing apart from those doing the big time dealing and running around with firearms etc. There are many addicts locked up who are the victims, a victim of addiction who should not be in prison. And others, lower down dealers are simply earning a living without harming anyone. You average college drug dealer or neighbour that that does a little on the side to support ones own habit or boost their low income. We need addiction centres for them and if they have committed a crime then a prison type addiction centre. They are ill, not criminals. Drug dealing needs dividing up into serious and those lower down the chain simply earning a living or have a drug habit. That would reduce most burglary's and shoplifting.


    Okay, lots to get into there. One of the original threads I posted on this site was this: Are muderers evil or ill? and Nora is basically saying that drugs crime should be treated as a illness. My reply to that is that addiction should be treated as a illness, but not the actual drugs crimes.


    I agree about the addiction centres/prisons, but if a drugs addict robs someone on the street or burgles a home (I have personal experience of this, it can leave long term consequences for the victims) that is still a crime and the addict must be punished for committing that crime, but then receive treatment for the addiction.


    But a question I would pose straight away, is, what if the treatment doesn't work? Then what do you do with the addicts?


    The problem with having different tiers here, is one tier can easily bleed (literally...) into another. A minor criminal can quickly turn into a major one.


    More replies coming later.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • You didn't answer my question because you know it would prove you wrong. Whether or not it was driven underground, less people would smoke. The same can be said for drugs. Whilst we have a problem, legalising them would just send out the message it's OK to take drugs. As a result more people would take drugs, and the problem would escalate. Yes, the drugs would be more pure, and yes the government would get some tax. Believing the drugs barons would not exist is naive, they would just be undercutting the legitimate suppliers. Very few people I know pay the full price for fags, and I can't see it being different with drugs.

    If you read my post, I did answer your question (second paragraph).


    I have no idea why you think less people would smoke if it was to become unlawful. Experience tells me that this is a false assumption.


    Incidentally, if we executed drug takers, you do realise that we would have killed off all members of The Beatles and The Rolling Stones and countless other much loved personalities long ago. I can't see your solution being very popular with the public! You would be hunted down! :huh:

  • There is nothing wrong with taking drugs we all take drugs whether that is anti depressants, opioids, nicotine, alcohol etc etc. Taking drugs and drug abuse are two separate things.

    Agree, to a point. But injecting heroine or sniffing cocaine is not the same as drinking a pint of beer or having a quick fag.



    Society is the problem.

    Disagree.


    Why I am the problem for an addict?

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Legalise all drugs and open up Amsterdam style coffee shops, needle exchanges etc. In Amsterdam they have heroin addicts going to the clinic in the morning getting their fix and then go off to work for the day just like anyone else. Perfectly functioning addicts just like the business man that sits in the pub at lunchtime and has a few pints and then goes home in the evening and drinks a bottle of wine or something. Or maybe he works as a JP and pops out to his chambers for a quick sniffter and then after work put his baby nappy on or gimp mask on and goes to visit his dominatrix prostitute before heading home to the wife. The biggest drug addicts work in London's financial sector. Most in the stock exchange will be on cocaine. I bet there is a fair whack used in the parliament toilets also. It will either be that or a bottle of gin in the desk drawer.

    Can you buy crack in a coffee shop? If you can, I am wholly against that.


    What I think you may be talking about and correct me if I am wrong, is taking the market away from criminals and giving addicts a legal way to access their fix. This is in controlled circumstances and under supervision and that is very different to legalising drugs and being able to take them in coffee shops or buy them in Tescos. I am wholly against that. Addicts should be able to go to a treatment centre and get their fix from there, but the whole aim of this, is, to wheen them off the drugs eventually. And this goes back to my point about what happens if the treatment doesn't work, then what happens?


    I have no medical qualifications, but I think your point about someone being "perfectly functional" and taking drugs, especially class A drugs, is something which is debatable.


    Many high flyers in the City, politics and media are on drugs, but does anyone know what their lives are like after taking these drugs for a very long time? I doubt very much they would be called "functioning" at this point, especially if taking cocaine and/or heroin.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.