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  • Universal Basic Income (UBI) seems to be a subject gathering more momentum at the moment. A Google Search will bring up a fair amount about it. The Covid-19 crisis seems to have added to the case for UBI and it is suggested that in essence the furlough payments were a form of UBI or the furlough schemes replacement will be UBI because the furloughed job has disappeared.

    However, there are suggestions that UBI is part of a grander scheme to rid the world of poverty and redistribute wealth to create equality (of outcome). Precisely how UBI would work or might be presented to a hopefully sceptical public is still to be revealed but my gut feeling is that this is a just a step along a road to far worse.

    Would you still be able to get paid for working?

    Would you actually have to work?

    Who pays you?

    Where does that money come from?

    How much money would you get?

    Would everyone get the same?

    Who would be in charge?

    How could you remove them if you didn't like what they were doing?

    Would their be democracy in a world with UBI?

    Just a few issues to chew on.

    I don't know enough about the subject but hopefully we can have a discussion here on what it means and whether its a good thing or bad thing.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Universal Basic Income is an utopian concept akin to Communism. It sounds too perfect to ever work and never will . Human nature is such that we need to feel valued and be suitably remunerated for the knowledge and skills we possess, also the responsibility and dedication we apply to our employment.

    The Voice of Reason

  • I agree completely but the current COVID-19 pandemic and the Climate Change activists and the ever more radical far left would see the current situation as ripe for exploitation of a largely frightened population who would willingly give up their freedoms for safety. This is a tactic deployed in past radical regimes to sweep in Orwellian powers. There are already a lot of desperate people out there who’s lives have been ruined, possibly on purpose, to effect radical changes. If they are offered UBI in exchange for safety and financial security they are likely to take it, especially where they are poor, low education and large families. They won’t think beyond the easy life. However for most of us it will be a levelling down process.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Sorry this is going to be long post as this is nothing new and something I have been thinking about for years now.

    In the short term it will be bad, very bad as there will be battles fought and how do we divvy up the wealth and decide who gets what. Eventually wealth wont even be an issue as there will be no such thing, not like it is now and the super rich will be well protected in their own bubble behind closed gates. The rest of us will lose a lot but eventually the robots and automation will do all the work and the majority of us wont have to work and any work we do will be more like a hobby to keep us busy and about survival of the fittest. At first there will be lots of crime and a Mad Max kind of world while we all become more tribal and try to settle things and get some kind of equilibrium.

    There might be some kind of points scoring system eventually where we can earn extra rations of food from the government if we don't grow our own or want to purchase something else. I can see a lot of trade going on in the form of swapsies, whether that is swapping skills or items. Lots of food banks and lots of freecycle type places. Maybe working in one of these places and doing lots of charity type work will be the future for many of us to regain some humanity. Life will all be about humanity and helping others and helping the planet. Food, water and shelter will be the priority for many. It wont be about working to pay bills and feed money up the chain to the super rich on a one way street up the ladder because by that stage they will have drained all the funds and the banking system will have collapsed.

    The worlds governments are going to want to try and keep some kind of law and order but they are going about it the wrong way with holding the population as prisoners or forcing identity cards, tracking devices and microchipping people and all the rest of it so there there will be huge resistance, maybe even civil war or many smaller wars, lots of splinter groups all over the world which breaks into many skirmishes and possibly a world war. I think we are about to enter a new 100 year war as long as serious weapons are kept at bay and it's fought on a more conventional basis. If serious weapons are used against the worlds populi including biological and chemical then we could be entering Armageddon and that wont be good, not that any war is good, but it's about the better of the two evils and trying to settle things in a more amicable way rather than selfish bullying which will drag things out for longer along with retaliation like we have now with what is labelled as terrorist attacks.

    The true terrorists in this world are the western leaders and I'm not talking politicians like Boris, Trump or Putin I'm talking banking and corporate leaders. Microsoft, Apple, Google Amazon, Facebook etc are our biggest threat. They have the backing of the likes of the Rothschilds and the financial system who have a hold over the governments in the western world. How do you think they get away with tax evasion, it's that and crime that the world is based on right now. They both feed off each other and keep it going. The financial system needs to crash so governments can possibly regain some control but even that is a screwed up system and they feed off the corporate world so that needs replacing which takes us back to warfare. If you think about it warfare is the only thing that has remained constant all the time we humans have populated the planet and we are long overdue a serious war to bring some balance back to the planet. It's not if, it's when, and we are massively overcrowded and using up to much of the planets resources. If we don't bring it on ourselves then nature will do it for us and if we keep trying to fight nature it will beat us back down even harder and we will probably go extinct. Overcrowded concrete jungles and corporate greed and constant waste is not the way. The same with trying to keep people alive for longer and longer at the same time as producing more babies. We simply don't have the space and resources on the planet. We have been on a downward spiral and path towards extinction since the industrial revolution started back in the Victorian times. It's not progression......the only thing progressing is us towards either destroying the planet and / or going extinct.

    The corporate rich are most likely hoping that they and their families can fly to Mars and escape it all along with the selected lucky ones and create a superior elitist race there. The rest of us will be left to rot if we still exist.

  • Oh, dear, some dramatic dystopian views coming out there. Who would want to live in such a world?

    UBI will not work. It is far too expensive (look at the crippling cost of the furlough scheme for starters) and such a scheme would not incentivise people to work.

    We already have Universal Credit, and I think that is about as close as we are going to get to UBI. And we can all see how disincentivising such schemes are. That’s why we have to have rules in place to ensure that we are not paying out money to people who don’t want to work.

    I certainly don’t want to be part of a society where you get ‘extra rations of food’ from the government for being good peoples. Sounds very communistic to me!

  • It's not a case of wanting to live like that. It's awful but look around you and at the world and what is going on and this started long before COVID. The corporate greed is ruling. It was only today that I heard a phone-in on TV discussing whether the gov should pay for children's meals when an elderly pensioner pointed out that we are going backwards and to not pay is Victorian. Why is this even up for debate in 2020. Why are there food banks and people homeless in 2020. Why are other countries still in starvation. There should be no such thing as a third world in 2020 as there should be enough to go around everyone but we exploit those countries for our own corporate and personal greed as we are marketed the junk and unnecessary that is taking a meal out the the mouth of someone elsewhere.

    How many youngsters actually see a future for themselves. Work is something being taken over by automation and machines and at the same time population growth is rising so there is more competition for the few jobs left. The price of living is also increasing, they have no chance of getting on the housing ladder and saving for a pension does not even enter thoughts because if your not earning or living on scraps you can't pay into a pot. The majority that leave university now, the lucky few that get there, don't get the job they thought they could get and end up in some low paid job. At least they don't have to pay back their student loans then I suppose as they will never earn enough. The financial market is in crisis for those who are not rich and earning from putting others in poverty. As it stands it's a one way street with money moving in one direction and it's on the breaking point where those living in poverty will have to fight for survival. The old Victorian manger and worker modal does not work. It works for the manager because they are raking it all in and exploiting the workers but this has been going on since the Industrial revolution and it can't sustain itself and with the increase in population that rich and poor gap is getting bigger every day.

    We will have folk queuing up for work again soon like the old labour market queues in hope for a days pittance whenever available as everyone fights for the front of the queue. All it will take is the removal of benefits or lack of universal credit and / or a universal credit that does not cover living costs. The odds are it will be cash in hand for the day and when we are eventually forced into digital currency only employers will be left with, for example only offering a free meal and some goods one can swap with someone else in exchange for something else becauae there is no cash and digital can be traced. Go and work for the day washing up in the chicken shop or clearing glasses in the pub in exchange for a meal and whatever you can get away with stealing. FFS many places are already offering a free meal, especially the hospitality industry and it's not a bonus when your paid so little and not given a decent meal break. 1 hour paid lunch breaks are a thing of the past and it's 30mins now. It's slavery and exploitation and that's if one has a job. That's a huge majority of the population in low end paid work and the rest are self employed working for delivery companies etc and being exploited. We are in kind of a new revolution, an electronic and automated revolution where people are no longer required to work so we need to figure something else out for folk to be able to survive and support themselves. What's going to make the world go around so to speak.

    If we continue on the same path the majority of the youngsters growing up now unless they stay with parents will end up living in the same conditions that the illegal immigrants do with many to a room being exploited by some dodgy private landlord and in a job that pays as little as they can get away with paying them. And don't forget many of them parents are not as well off as their parents where. It's all diminishing the further down the line we get. You ask the majority of youngsters where they see their future and the majority have no idea, they have no prospects or goals and basically live for here and now. Add the worry of climate change onto that and things get even more depressing especially when there are companies taking advantage of that to make even more profit like supermarket carrier bag charges for example. It's bleak and we haven't even started to feel the full effect of COVID on peoples living conditions, wealth and future prospects. The great depression number two is upon us and what usually follows a financial depression. What gets people out of that....warfare unless we change the modal because money can't keep going in one direction.

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