Brexit Will Leave Britain Internationally Redundant

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  • Interesting analysis by the Byline Times on Britain's diminishing role in global affairs.


    Brexit Will Leave Britain Internationally Redundant


    An EU / US summit in 2021 will isolate Britain on the international stage. It's too early yet to say how receptive the Biden administration is to such a proposal, but I see no reason why they would refuse it. The EU would be a powerful ally to have in asserting its interests against "Authoritarian powers" (China..?) and "closed economies". The EU would gain from having greater back up in dealing with increasingly authoritarian states within such as Poland and Hungary.



    snips:


    Despite talk of “Global Britain”, the UK could quickly find itself out in the cold. Biden is famously ambivalent about Boris Johnson, describing him as a "mini Trump" – on account of the Prime Minister’s fervour for Brexit, and his past racist jibe about President Barack Obama.



    Yet Britain’s isolation could go beyond politics. The UK is losing out to the EU in trade with global markets – the value of German and Italian exports to China and the US is rising just as Britain’s share is falling. Any attempt to expand trade will be hampered by Britain’s predicted slow recovery from the pandemic. The UK’s economic recovery is forecast to be among the world’s slowest, beaten (so to speak) only by Argentina among major economies.



    The election of Joe Biden has been a major game changer for Britain. Had Trump won, Britain might have had some influence in the European theatre, acting as a poodle for Trump's attempts to weaken the EU.


    But the Biden administration is clearly impressed with the way Ireland - supported by the EU - has been determined to prevent a hard border between the Republic and Northern Ireland, and to uphold the Good Friday Agreement, both of which are under serious threat from the actions of the British government.


    The ground is moving beneath Boris Johnson's feet and as he continues to pursue policies that are completely at odds with the incoming American administration, overtures from the bigger game player across the Atlantic will be given serious consideration.

  • Little by little more informed opinion is starting to take shape about Britain's future prospects outside the EU.


    For Brexiters, any reason - no matter how shallow or based in optimism rather than solid fact - to crow is eagerly leapt on, usually without any regard for the wider implications, as evidenced by the attempt to sell rollover arrangements as "Trade Deals"....... which is something they certainly are not.


    Of Rollovers And Being At The Heart of Asia / Pacific: Britain's Trade Post Brexit


    This is an opinion piece as to how future events may turn out so it is open to challenge, but for me, this is as well reasoned a piece as any, written in the sort of language the average man on the street can read and understand.


    Far too much opinion on "Where Britain Is Going" is based on nothing more than optimism and bolstered only by the promises of government figures who are desperate to keep their voter base from becoming disillusioned. They keep the dream alive with bluster and promises of jam tomorrow despite all the facts emerging.


    But this is different. It doesn't talk Britain down, but it does point at our country heading in an unfavourable direction.

    Since January 1st Britain has lost 68% of its trade with its nearest partner. Does anybody really think that joining an alliance of 11 countries, all of whom have their own interests at heart, and on the other side of the world, is going to replace that..?


    The Brexiters and optimists will say "Of course it will. It will be a stunning success." But all the reason and informed opinion says otherwise.

    • Staff Notice

    Opinion pieces supporting a rant thread don't cut much ice here. Post some more authoritative links or I will close this rant thread.

    • Staff Notice

    For Brexiters, any reason - no matter how shallow or based in optimism rather than solid fact - to crow is eagerly leapt on, usually without any regard for the wider implications, as evidenced by the attempt to sell rollover arrangements as "Trade Deals"....... which is something they certainly are not.

    Of course they are trade deals, and yes, they are rollover deals as well. This was always planned to avoid a cliff edge.


    Once these are sorted, we will be looking at bolstering these deals on a bespoke basis to be more in line with what we need, to include our service sector, which makes us the most money by far. These were never pursued by the EU because we had to fall in line with what the other EU countries wanted.

    • Staff Notice

    Interesting analysis by the Byline Times on Britain's diminishing role in global affairs.

    I was about to post something sarcastic in reply to this rant thread, but having actually read this first article, especially Anthony Blinken's remarks that there's no institution that links European and Asian democracies together to counter China's growing influence, I will give a serious answer instead.


    Blinken is right. We have the UN which was meant to act as the policemen for the world, but as two out of the five permenent seats on the security council are taken up by authoritarian regimes, the organisation has increasingly become an irrelevance, especially when it matters in times of war.


    The answer I would give to Blinken is simple, either create a organisation within the UN or a separate one altogether, linking all the democracies of the world together with security council like powers to counter the threats that authoritarian regimes pose to the rest of us.


    As for Britain's "diminishing" role in the world, the article goes on to answer that one too. Not only is the UK hosting the G7 this year, but also a major climate conference too. If that's a diminishing role, then I can't wait to see what a leading role looks like.

    • Staff Notice

    Opinion pieces supporting a rant thread don't cut much ice here. Post some more authoritative links or I will close this rant thread.

    I’m not sure why this new thread has been created when a Brexit thread already exists. Maybe it is to try and bypass answers to these same old points which have already been given.

    • Staff Notice

    Ok, then.


    The EU is clearly playing hardball. I’ve come across this interesting piece which gives a clue on some of the possible measures we will have in reserve. Two can play at that game while we seek out newer, more friendly markets and alliances.


    https://briefingsforbritain.co…ons-against-eu-hostility/

  • Ok, then.


    The EU is clearly playing hardball. I’ve come across this interesting piece which gives a clue on some of the possible measures we will have in reserve. Two can play at that game while we seek out newer, more friendly markets and alliances.


    https://briefingsforbritain.co…ons-against-eu-hostility/

    Disclaimer:


    LONG POST ALERT. IF THIS EXCEEDS YOUR ATTENTION SPAN PLEASE CLICK OFF NOW.



    In a time of bogus conspiracy theories, the only real conspiracy is the conspiracy of silence. Britain is in a crisis brought on by Brexit and yet the government won’t talk about it. The opposition dare not mention it. The right wing press won’t cover it. And broadcasters fear they will be damned as biased if they admit it.


    Rather than face reality, we live in an imaginary Britain, a land of make-believe, where the political class act out parts as if they are on a film set.


    We have the hardest of possible Brexits because the Conservative right insisted we must leave the customs union and single market. Every promise they made to the public is falling apart. Take trade. Johnson and Gove’s vote leave swore to voters in 2016 that Brexit would free Britain to strike deals “with major economies like China and India”.


    It was just another in the list of false pledges they made, safe in the knowledge that, by the time the truth came out, Brexit would be done. Yet, even now, they try to maintain the pretence. Last week, the Sun announced that Liz Truss had created a post-Brexit "Enhanced Trade Partnership with Delhi. Already it had “created” 1,540 jobs, courtesy of the Indian tech firm Tata Consultancy Services.


    It was pure propaganda. No one knows what “Enhanced Trade Partnership” means, the former government trade official David Henig said: "I asked Truss’s department when it was signed and how might exporters read its terms. They can’t. There’s nothing there beyond a “commitment” to a “long-term India-UK partnership” and the hope of drawing up a “road map”. The UK and India have signed no agreement. Truss’s department accepts Tata’s new jobs are “not linked directly” to the alleged "partnership".


    Britain and India may later agree to reduce a few tariffs and harmonise a few standards but it won’t be a real free trade deal. Liam Fox promised one in 2017, but couldn't deliver because India wanted greater freedom of movement for its people into Britain and, in any event, the Indian government is committed to protecting large parts of its own economy.


    The Sun and much of the far right press would rather tell us fairy stories with happy-ever-after endings than admit their mistake in selling Brexit to their blinkered readers.


    The government, too, must keep us trapped in their version of Unicorn World. It can't tell the truth to its voters or, I suspect, to itself. I've watched Truss on TV. She carries the secret smile of the zealot convinced she is in possession of a truth the uninitiated could never grasp. The glow of the convinced fanatic.


    The oldest question in politics is: are they lying or are they genuinely that stupid? My impression is that Truss is genuinely stupid enough to believe her party's Brexit promises.


    Now she is being "mugged by reality" – a phrase conservatives once used about naive liberals, yet it now applies to them in spades.


    Truss changes her mind constantly and civil servants are exhausting themselves as they try to keep up with her contradictory demands. She insists her special advisers rewrite her civil servants’ briefs to make them more ideologically palatable, as if Conservative political appointees can make Britain great again by redrafting the country in MS Word.


    Reworking reality is preferable to accepting that Brexit has left us ripe for exploitation. The world can sense our neediness. Last year, a desperate Truss unilaterally suspended tariffs imposed by the EU on US goods. She hoped that a grateful America would respond by dropping its tariffs on Scotch whisky, which have cost jobs and £500m in sales. The Trump White House was certainly grateful. It accepted the gift but gave nothing in return.


    I’d get used to humiliation if I were a Tory. I grant you that, one day, there may be a trade deal with the US, but only when the Conservatives break their promises to farmers and consumers about never allowing in US chlorinated chicken and hormone-treated beef, and hand the NHS over to American Big Pharma. I am not being over-cynical. They are already pushing through a trade bill that will allow them to do just that.


    Hong Kong and the persecution of Uighurs make a trade deal with China impossible, so that’s another Vote Leave promise gone.


    Instead, the government is, in apparent seriousness, proposing that Britain join the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Alert observers will notice that the United Kingdom does not have a coastline on the Pacific Rim. They will also understand that, like every country in the world, we trade most with our neighbours and our neighbours are Europeans. We are a part of Europe, But the Conservatives have ripped us from our only possible home.


    I can see why Truss, Johnson and Gove hope no one will notice that their hard Brexit has seen the people of Northern Ireland suffer the consequences of a border in the Irish Sea, Amsterdam overtake London as Europe’s largest share-trading centre and businesses drown in paperwork. They lied to the nation and don’t want to suffer the consequences. Their spinning and diversionary tactics, though reprehensible, are to be expected.


    For the life of me, however, I don't understand why opposition parties and the broadcast media outside the control of the political right play along with the deception and pretend that the world as it is does not exist.


    It’s as if Britain were a Victorian family keeping up appearances. As if not just a government with every reason to conceal, but the opposition and media too are bound by a promise to never wash Britain’s dirty laundry in public – even as its stink becomes overwhelming.

  • And the disappointment for you is your dissertations fail to resolve what you see as a problem and I see as a change for the better. This government won't always be the government, neither, hopefully, will Labour.


    Byline Times....the "B" also stands for biased.

  • And the disappointment for you is your dissertations fail to resolve what you see as a problem and I see as a change for the better. This government won't always be the government, neither, hopefully, will Labour.


    Byline Times....the "B" also stands for biased.

    I don't expect to resolve anything. I'm here to make a point of view that is generally unacceptable to this forum. If I'm wasting my time then it's my time to waste. I make no bones about being anti-Brexit and pro-EU. I post my "dissertations" on that basis. At least my messages have substance and are supported wherever possible, by reliable, often fact checked sources, rather than being the rote regurgitation of tory press lies and other propaganda.*


    You can disagree with any opinion I write. Challenging opinions is fair game. You'll have difficulty changing the facts though. Example: "Boris Johnson is a liar". Every week on "The Cornish Party of Democratic Karma" thread I post a fact checked item of his and his government's proven dishonesty. That, to honest people, is proven evidence of my accusation. Q.E.D.


    B stands for "Byline". It says so in the title. You can attach any other meaning to it that you like....... but doing so only serves to reveal YOUR bias.



    *example of tory propaganda: "Britain has struck 60+ trade deals since Brexit."


    No we haven't. We have made rollover agreements to maintain the status quo while trade negotiations take place. All that has happened is that for those countries with whom we have them, we continue to follow the EU trade agreement that we had when we were members. In effect........ we might as well still be in the EU.

    • Staff Notice

    We have made rollover agreements to maintain the status quo while trade negotiations take place. All that has happened is that for those countries with whom we have them, we continue to follow the EU trade agreement that we had when we were members. In effect........ we might as well still be in the EU.

    Rollover agreements are still trade agreements, Jenny, and given we did not want a ‘cliff edge’, the rollover agreements were necessary to maintain continuity. New trade deals designed to promote our services industry will be drawn up in due course.


    Most of us don’t want to belong to the EU, Jenny. You need to appreciate that.

  • A point of view is pretty worthless when it isn't possible to change anything however many "facts" are found to support a view and however much research is carried out is not going to force any changes. For four and a half years years we were hamstrung by those who wanted to thwart the result of the referendum, four and a half years that could have been spent more usefully and four and a half years that gave succour to the EU negotiating stance.


    You can call Boris Johnson a liar or any other name you can think of but it changes nothing and I'm not offended, and like millions of others who voted to leave, I'm not a Tory supporter.


    Of course they're what you term rollover deals because the countries with whom we had them agreed to them but you are probably ignoring the fact that as net contributors to the EU, we bore the cost of taking part in the negotiations and agreement to those deals. However, we have made other deals and further deals are on the table.


    I'm mighty delighted that we are no longer in the EU but regret our negotiating skills, apart from being hampered by a whole list of people and groups attempting to prevent us leaving, weren't at a level that should have got us a better deal.


    Apologies for what might be considered a rant but it had to be said. :)

  • Rollover agreements are still trade agreements, Jenny, and given we did not want a ‘cliff edge’, the rollover agreements were necessary to maintain continuity. New trade deals designed to promote our services industry will be drawn up in due course.


    Most of us don’t want to belong to the EU, Jenny. You need to appreciate that.

    I do appreciate that. 52 - 48. I'm aware of that. But Brexiters also need to recognise that a lot...... more than 16 million voters DIDN'T want to leave. Now, I'm well aware that 52 is higher than 48 but that doesn't give you a mandate to silence all opposition.


    This is one of the most divisive elements of Brexit...... this.... "You lost get over it" attitude. It's the sneering, arrogant, hubristic belief that 50% + 1 equals "victory" for all eternity. It doesn't.


    Why do you think we have a general election every four years....? Because democracy recognises that people can CHANGE THEIR MINDS.


    No. We will NOT get over it. We will not lie down tamely and accept that you have stolen our European identity off the back of a campaign waged with lies, dishonesty, crime, deceit and the corruption of democracy that underpinned the entire leave campaign and was the key factor in that very narrow majority.


    You clearly support crime. I don't.


    This country is broken and YOU broke it. We aim to fix it.


    If you think I, and an increasing number of people, including large numbers of those now attaining majority age, and have had their entire future stolen from them before they had a vote, are going to meekly accept your corrupt "Victory", then think again.


    As Nigel Farage said in May 2016: "If this ends in a 52 - 48 split, then it isn't over by a long shot."


    He was right. It isn't over. Not by a very long shot.

  • I have no problem with people using as many words as they feel is necessary to make their point. I too use as many words as I need (OB hates it and MM can't handle it) but as you seem to be of similar mind to me on that score I feel you might be receptive to a little expansiveness on my part. Indulge me, please.


    I think you make a number of false assumptions though. Firstly, that our campaigns will not change anything. That was the mistake that Remain made during the referendum campaign. We were complacent. We followed the polls that said there would be a remain majority. We underestimated the determination of the leave campaign and what extent it was prepared to go to in order to win. We played fair. You cheated.


    We made just about every mistake it was possible to make because we did not adopt the attitude that "The end justifies the means." We came out of it with honour, but you got the result you wanted. You can crow and sneer and tell us "You lost, get over it" as you slap yourselves on the back over your pints of Bombadier, but you have no idea of the seething, burning determination this has put into the hearts of a lot of people who are now dedicated to overturning the injustice perpetrated on the entire country. And there are more of us than you realise.


    The biggest single mistake we made was to underestimate people's desire to believe anybody who told them that everything was going to be sooooooooooo easy.... The Europeans would roll over and give us everything we wanted just because we told them to. We believed that a referendum held in UK placed a binding obligation on the nations of Europe to give us what we wanted, while offering nothing in return.


    Brexit was a brilliant campaign for propaganda, lies, dishonesty and crime. And we overestimated the ability or willingness of: a) large numbers of the British people to see through that and; b) that many of those who did see through it wouldn't be seduced by the dream of getting everything they wanted just because "We won the war."


    So........... can we win...? Can we wage a successful Rejoin campaign..? I believe we can. Oh, not right now. Johnson has got his victory. But only for now. At this time Britain has the most extreme right wing government it ever has. It has its hands on the levers of power and is pulling them as far to the right as they will go. This is going to take time, but we know this and we're prepared for the long haul. I'm in my mid 30's now. I'm going to be around for a long time.


    Brexit was won by dying the boomer generation. Rejoin is going to be waged by Millennials with our lives in front of us.


    Boris Johnson will leave office. Rupert Murdoch will die. Rees-Mogg will take his millions and swan off to enjoy his ill-gotten gains, The watchdogs of Brexit have a clock running against them. And their time is ticking away even as I write.


    This is the most extreme anti-European government this country will ever have. But it won't be in office forever. Johnson will go eventually, either knifed in the front by his own party or he'll just get bored with it because he is a shallow, vacuous, narcissistic individual who is only really "playing" at being Prime Minister. It's the jolly jape that he no doubt dreamed up one night in the dorm at Eton. He will go. One day. He may get replaced by another anti-European but not one as extreme as him. Business will start to whisper in that PM's ear.... "business is suffering..... if we just, you know, water Brexit down a bit... rejoin the CU & SM.... it'd be worth billions..... here's a cheque for the party, OK..? See what you can do, yeah...?"


    And that's how it begins. You see, Brexit is an ideology defined by it's extreme nature. And in that it carries the seeds of its own destruction. A few disaster capitalists will make - are already making - a lot of money out of it. But the overwhelming majority of people will lose. Industries are being destroyed because of it. Livelihoods are being lost because of it. People are suffering already in very real ways because of it. The United Kingdom is doomed because of it.


    Of course, right now the tories can hide the failings of Brexit with Covid. They can blame all the fault lines that are opening on "remoaners". And those excuses hold water. For now. But they won't wash with people forever. Sooner or later the scales will fall from people's eyes.


    And we will be there, every inch of the way. Pumping that message relentlessly in the same way that those newspaper columnists..... Boris Johnson included..... did for year after year after year. We can use the drip, drip, drip effect of pointing the finger at Brexit and stirring up discontent against what has been done to our country by the "old, criminal regime that has taken its money and left the us to suffer the fallout of their power grab."


    Politically it might be difficult to sell rejoin because it will certainly mean joining the Euro... Schengen.... and anything else that transpires within the EU between now and then. But you assume that attitudes towards such things will never change. The old symbols that Brexiters cling to.... the union flag.... the £ sterling.... they're changing too. When Scotland leaves the UK, the union flag is dead. What are you going to wave then...? The ageing boomer generation is dying out in increasing numbers. How much influence will they have on a national referendum in, say, 10 years time...? Young people will be much more amenable to the Euro because it is modern, forward looking and the day will come when firstly, the Euro achieves parity and then overtakes the £. Eventually, the argument for joining the Euro will be overwhelming.


    As for it's symbolic value, well, unlike the £, you don't get a picture of the Queen on the Euro. Yes... something as silly as that.... a symbol of imperial Britishness that we see on every fiver, tenner and twenty. But cash is becoming redundant. Who has a picture of the queen on their bank card..? or their internet account...? or their Apple Pay account...?


    Take those symbols away.... or just discard them for something more modern, and the imperialistic Briton gets watered down.


    Brexit needs symbols for believers to cling to*. But ten years from now, will they still be there..? What will the flag of England and Wales look like five years after the United Kingdom has ceased to exist..?


    The truth of Brexit will come out in the end. Excuses are exactly that. Excuses and people see through them sooner or later.


    And the thing you need to remember is that we will always be there. Chipping away at Brexit relentlessly and remorselessly. Our numbers are growing. Brexit has stolen our European identity.


    And we want it back.





    *There was a wonderful irony about UKIP adopting the £ symbol as their logo. The symbol derives from the medieval method of supporting currency with silver. A "pound" meant a pound in weight of silver. And the letter "L" used to symbolise it comes from the word "Livre"


    Which is "pound".......... in French.


    UKIPs English nationalistic symbol was derived from the French language. Oh, sweet irony.

  • The UK is far from internationally redundant, there are deals for trade already in existence and have been for years they wont suddenly disappear overnight, companies in this country and companies in other countries still need to trade with each other and will carry on to do so, if for example company 'A' in the UK want to trade with company 'B' that is not in UK, then they should be allowed to do so as long as they not doing anything illegal without the interference of any government or EU or whatever. its simples or at least it should be.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

    • Staff Notice

    I do appreciate that. 52 - 48. I'm aware of that. But Brexiters also need to recognise that a lot...... more than 16 million voters DIDN'T want to leave. Now, I'm well aware that 52 is higher than 48 but that doesn't give you a mandate to silence all opposition.

    Since when did the minority get to call the shots? The desperate attempts to overthrow the Brexit negotiations were disgusting in a democratic country. Maybe you would feel more comfortable living in somewhere like Russia or China, where the minority do get the government of their choice.

    Why do you think we have a general election every four years....? Because democracy recognises that people can CHANGE THEIR MINDS.

    Actually, no. It’s because each party sets out its manifesto for the next few years, and the people get to vote on which one they like best.


    Referenda are not supposed to be held again every few years. This was made clear to everyone in both the Brexit and Scottish referenda. And here was I thinking that you were a woman of principle, expecting politicians to keep to their promises. Only when it suits you, it seems.

    I have no problem with people using as many words as they feel is necessary to make their point. I too use as many words as I need (OB hates it and MM can't handle it) but as you seem to be of similar mind to me on that score I feel you might be receptive to a little expansiveness on my part. Indulge me, please

    You attribute a lot of views to me that I don’t actually hold. No-one objects to your stating your views, but I think we would all appreciate you being a little more concise, like the rest of us. If you want people to read your stuff, you really do have to comply, otherwise what may be perfectly valid points may be lost. We don’t spend all day on these forums, you know!

    Brexit was won by dying the boomer generation.

    Oh, please! You forgot about your preposterous ‘dreams of Empire’ argument - you must be slipping!


    I will leave you with an alarming thought, Jenny. As people get older, they get wiser, and most become more Conservative-leaning with age. The problem you have there, Jenny, is that as old people die off, they are replaced by....more old people!


    You also need to factor in a successful Brexit and regeneration of the north. These factors will kill off your ‘Rejoin’ campaign.


    Sorry, but someone had to tell you.


  • I have no problem with people using as many words as they feel is necessary to make their point. I too use as many words as I need (OB hates it and MM can't handle it) but as you seem to be of similar mind to me on that score I feel you might be receptive to a little expansiveness on my part. Indulge me, please.

    It may not be a matter of not liking long posts, it maybe that OB and MM may well be frightened they might die before they finish reading a dissertation.


    Who cheated? Where are the judgements on cheating or is this just another blanket accusation which ignores the £9million leaflet and many other Remain views?


    Rather than pumping endlessly, you should recognise the waste and try something constructive, try supporting Britain in its endeavours to succeed. As to remain making mistakes during the pre-referendum period, what makes you think they've changed, they're still making mistakes, you are helping them, you're still waving the EU flag that is a worse idea than when we were members.


    The remainder of your post I will consign to the bin, like too many Remainers (now a non-word) there is a near maniacal endeavour to change something they're not going to achieve and no one thanks them for it.


    Next time there's a close call in an election, can we assume you will be jumping up and down if it's your team that won by a few votes?


    Oh and livre has more than one meaning in French.

  • My responses to your comments above (please forgive me if it takes more than the length of a tweet to do so)


    1. The age of individual posters are not my concern. I'm not posting to them directly, I'm posting to the forum the majority of whose members , I suspect, may be of younger stock. Some may even enjoy reading something with a little depth of rationale and provokes some thought on the matter rather than the superficial, rote repetition of government soundbites. I attempt to inform. You attempt to brainwash.



    2. The judgement on cheating during the referendum campaign came from the Electoral Commission, no less.


    Electoral Commission Findings On Vote Leave


    I'll let you read their judgement at your leisure. After doing so I suggest you may find reading my posts less arduous in future. In short, Vote Leave committed offences which, had the referendum been legally binding, the result would have been declared null and void and we'd still be in the EU.


    The result however was NOT legally binding which means that despite anything David Cameron may have said, the government was not obliged to act upon it. We take the view that is that an honourable government would have taken the moral position of either nullifying the outcome entirely or holding a second vote. I'm sure you disagree, but it does validate all the subsequent attempts by Remain to obtain a "People's Vote".


    If the finding of the Electoral Commission isn't relevant.......... whose is...?



    3. I'm sure you would dearly love the Rejoin campaign to simply give up and say "Oh well, let's just get on with it.... Dunkirk Spirit and all that....... We lost, let's get over it. In other words, capitulation.


    Not going to happen. End of.



    4. Where you consign any of my messages to is up to you. I don't mind. It doesn't take me much time to put my OP's here.... I create them for other forums which are much less closed minded than this. All I do is copy and paste them here. If I reach one open mind anywhere, that makes it all worthwhile. Some members only come here to read the comments and never post at all. Perhaps.... just perhaps... some of them DO stop and think about what they read.


    In other forums, my messages have stimulated quite a fair bit of discussion and comment. Remember.... the internet is big. Try thinking outside your little Forum Box bubble.



    5. Of course I would. The day Britain rejoins the EU I'll celebrate long and loud. You never know, we might even get Big Ben to bong...!!! But should the decision to rejoin be challenged, I'd be willing to take it on in a far more honest and democratic way than simply repeating "You lost, get over it" endlessly.


    Democracy doesn't end with a vote. And when we do rejoin.... which will happen one day....... I fully expect you to howl from the rooftops. I promise I won't tell you that "you lost, get over it."* I'd be happy to pick up the gauntlet and throw it back in your face.


    I'll tell you what.... let's rejoin the EU and put that to the test, shall we...? Bring it on, I say.


    and finally........


    6. You are quite right. Livre does have more than one meaning. As do many words in French. But in the case of English currency, it means "pound".



    I've enjoyed this little joust. It was kinda fun debunking your arguments, especially point number 2.





    * My repetition of the phrase is intentional. Annoying, isn't it...? Try having it shoved in your face for nearly five years. See how you like it.

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