Russian invasion of Ukraine

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  • Looks like the Russians are in their final preparation stage before invasion. They are moving fighter jets into Belarus and other areas bordering Ukraine, their various fleets are setting sail for a global "exercise" and air defence systems are now in place. The ground is also freezing again, so the Russian tanks can move.


    On the issue of nuclear weapons, what is different between now and the Cold War is that Putin has said repeatedly that he thinks a "limited" nuclear strike on a opponent is perfectly feasible. He obviously doesn't believe in the Cold War concept of M.A.D. - Mutually Assured Destruction.


    Looks like he's timing things for the start of the Winter Olympics, perhaps sending a litlle message to the Cinese too...??

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  • Yeh well the shells they use in tanks now contain Uranium so that is considered nuclear. Not what we think off as nuclear missiles when nuclear is spoke about. That's the difference between now and the Cold war and probably what he means by 'limited'.


    Nuclear Bullets: Russia Is Arming Its Tanks with 'Uranium' Shells
    There are several international organizations campaigning to ban depleted uranium shells. Whether the Russian government will heed them is another matter.
    nationalinterest.org


    With all our trying to be clever with electronics we are vulnerable.....


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    And on the note of the F35...


    How China Stole the Designs for the F-35 Stealth Fighter
    The F-35 Lightning II is the world’s most advanced fifth-generation stealth fighter. The F-35 and its three variants allow the U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine…
    www.19fortyfive.com


    So we should tread very carefully and not get big headed and underestimate the Russian capability. Don't forget they can replace parts in the field but we have to send shit back to the manufacturers now because of the complexity. And their tanks are far superior to our Challenger 2's with more range.

  • You would have thought the UK would have learnt by now, with providing weapons to what are considered enemies of Russia, we did it with Afghanistan and when Afghanistan became our enemy the very same weapons we had provided them with were used against our armed forces. :rolleyes:

  • Indeed Ron that is always a possibility and who knows where things will stand in 20 years from now. Are we giving these weapons or are we selling them I wonder. Do we just sit back an allow Russia to move closer towards us. What happens when we have a shortage of weapons because we have given or sold them to others. All valid questions and things to be considered.

  • Here's an idea...how about siding with Russia and voluntering to help them take back that land. That would properly throw Putin. How would he react to that. Everything we are doing now is predictable and escalating the problems rather than helping.

  • Like they say keep your friends close and your enemies closer, we don't want to make ourselves a target, would be better if we didn't arm putins enemies, but I suspect there is money involved hence why its being done somebidy will be profiting from it thats for sure.

  • Do not under any circumstances that are voidable, get involved in this little skirmish or it will plunge you into years of misery for something that has nothing to do with you. Same with the Yemen problem that is not your problem.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • There is nought wrong with selling weapons and ammunition to other friendly countries to use. It's a good money making business.

    What the UK should avoid is sending our troops to the battle front in Ukraine. It's nought to do with us. The EU should be backing Ukraine with their troops and armament, they are the closest and would suffer most if Russia invades.

    Our troops should only be used to protect the UK, if the Russians advance through Europe and arrive at France, who as history testifies, would immediately surrender. :D

  • We didn't seem to mind having Russia help out during ww2. They were communist then, as for showing a sign of weakness by siding with them, I suspect they already know we are weak compared to them so don't need to be shown. 🤣

  • How about the fact they are in the EU and we have the whole Brexit bitterness between us. It's irrelevant that another EU country has allowed us to use their airspace. TBH the fact they may not want to get involved is a more reasonable argument but even so it shows where their loyalty stands and it gives even more creditability for why it was best we broke our ties with the EU as an organisation. Maybe we should concentrate on supporting Poland and Denmark when it comes to trade as they seem to be more friendly. We have a lot of Polish living in this country now so there could be a reasonable level of symbiosis there.

    Poland and denmark are i the eu and cannot deal independently with britain because of that. you know that perfectly well or you've been living in a cave for the last six years. you talk about poles living here, but tens of thousands have left in disgust and the ones that stayed have priti patel trying to evict them so i dont think there is much love lost there.


    as for loyalties, no eu country owes britain any loyalty. The british are the last people they are going to feel loyalty towards after all, it is us who left them, dont forget. how is that for loyalty?


    and if it is irrelevant that eu countries allowed / didnt allow britain to use their airspace, then wtf was your post about. You know, this one:

    Germany refused to supply defensive weapons to Ukraine

    and now they are sticking the EU boot in and making our supply planes fly around Germany.


    https://ukdefencejournal.org.u…kraine-weapon-supply-run/

    One minute you are claiming the eu is sticking the boot in and the next minute you claim its irrelevant.


    make your mind up.

    Just telling the truth, that's all. I know you don't like it, but there it is.

  • The EU is sick and splintering. They have no idea how to behave in a modern world. They should be backing Ukraine up to the hilt, but Germany is too scared of annoying the Russians sensitive feelings that they will let Ukraine burn . Self interest is not what the EU was supposed to be about, but as it splinters it's clear that there is no cohesion. I'm pleased we left that sinking ship, its rank and toxic...

  • One minute you are claiming the eu is sticking the boot in and the next minute you claim its irrelevant.

    That's because I did not vote to stay or leave. It's not a simple yes or no for me and every situation is different. I treat all EU countries as both an individual entity and also a member of the EU state. I don't understand all the hostility about us leaving or staying in the EU. In some respects we are still part of the EU because we are a NATO member with many of the EU countries which Germany is a member and for that reason they should have supported us. Their behaving like Italians at the moment.

  • That's because I did not vote to stay or leave. It's not a simple yes or no for me and every situation is different. I treat all EU countries as both an individual entity and also a member of the EU state. I don't understand all the hostility about us leaving or staying in the EU. In some respects we are still part of the EU because we are a NATO member with many of the EU countries which Germany is a member and for that reason they should have supported us. Their behaving like Italians at the moment.

    nato and the eu are not one and the same thing. they are completely different entities. Turkey is a member of nato but not the eu. despite what your lot said about 80 million turks ready to come here at the drop of a hat. different eu countries are different entitys. everybody knows that. they have simply agreed to a common set of values, goals and ideals for their mutual benefit. we left that but wanted to keep the perks and are now moaning about being punished because they are treating us the same as they treat all other third countries which is to treat them according to the arrangements made with them as indiiduals. norway gets treated as a third country with one deal, britain gets treated as a third country with a different deal. thats how it works. just because britain negotiated a shit deal for britain isnt the eu's fault.


    as for ukraine, britain doesnt give a shit for them either. we have just grabbed an opportunity to sell some missiles and make a profit out of a dangerous situation. if any of those missiles takes out russian tanks i am sure the russians will remember that in the future.


    this from one of our student posters:


    "But the overarching concern in the West - Washington, Nato, the UK and the EU - is less the possibility of conventional warfare over Ukraine, and far more, that Moscow is seeking to divide and destabilise Europe - shaking up the balance of continental power in the Kremlin's favour."

    It's taken a while for people to realise thus and I'm still not sure they realise that Brexit is part of that plan.


    another poster:


    Sun Tzu said "The best of the best is to win without fighting at all". The Russians have succeeded in this by inducing the UK to commit an unprecedented act of irrational self-harm.


    i personally agree that the whole thing is a case of russian sabre rattling, forcing nato to the table. their dream scenario would be to get nato to agree to a legally binding arrangement not to allow countries close to russia to join nato. that is what this is really all about. if they can gain territory in ukraine that would be a bonus but all this is political. politics by other means. well, they have gotten nato to the table. i doubt they will get all they want but they will take what they do get, go away and have another think and then try to devise a revised strategy to get them more in the future. and so it will go on.

    Just telling the truth, that's all. I know you don't like it, but there it is.

  • Do not under any circumstances that are voidable, get involved in this little skirmish or it will plunge you into years of misery for something that has nothing to do with you. Same with the Yemen problem that is not your problem.

    But if we do nothing, Putin will take over the rest of the former Soviet Union countries and then Warsaw Pact countries as his.


    Is that really want we want?

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  • Ukraine: US troops on alert as West voices unity
    Western allies agree to sanctions against Russia if it invades, as thousands of troops stand by.
    www.bbc.co.uk


    The Americans are preparing to send troops to the Baltics if needed and the other main story from the last few days was that Britain and America are withdrawing some staff from their embassies in Kiev.


    Putin now has 120k troops on Ukraine's border. If it's a bluff, it's the biggest bluff in history.

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  • We didn't seem to mind having Russia help out during ww2.

    They might view it as the other way around, considering the amount of people they lost, Ron.

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  • What no one wants is another world war or a small conflict used to escalate into one.


    War is bad. Better to try everything to avoid it. Throwing the best young people into death and destruction and psychological trauma is not a good idea and never was. Fighting this sort of thing is like fending off a tank with a tooth pick. There are a few loose nuke countries around and the big players will cause utter devastation to the planet if they are allowed to let loose with what they have in their arsenals today.

    The vagabond who's rapping at your door

    Is standing in the clothes that you once wore

  • They might view it as the other way around, considering the amount of people they lost, Ron.

    Either way, they lost those people fighting a common enemy and was considered on our side in doing so, are we just following the Americans with the anti-communist paranoia.

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