Does a woman wearing skimpy clothing invite unwanted attention?

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    Imran Khan is under fire for allegedly stating that women wearing too few clothes invite rape. He denies this, and explains the context in which he said whatever he said.


    However, this does pose an important question. Not the question of whether women wearing too few clothes ‘invites rape’ which of course she does not. But most people with any common sense must surely realise that the more flesh a woman reveals in public, the more attention she is going to receive.


    Of course, this is perfectly natural behaviour when in a safe environment (for example with friends), but does there need to be some education in schools to make girls aware that wearing revealing clothes when walking out alone, particularly at night, is a rather dangerous thing to do?


    When I see pictures of women in their mini-skirts walking across a common late at night, I do wonder what they were thinking.


    https://www.theguardian.com/wo…an-blames-crisis-on-women


    [EXTRACT]


    Pakistan’s prime minister, Imran Khan, is facing backlash after he blamed victims of rape for wearing “very few clothes”.


    The former cricket captain was questioned by the Axios journalist Jonathan Swan about the ongoing “rape epidemic” in Pakistan and responded by saying: “If a woman is wearing very few clothes it will have an impact on the man unless they are robots. It’s common sense.”


    He did not elaborate on what he meant by “few clothes”, in a country where the vast majority of women wear conservative national dress. 3524.jpg?width=460&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=e94edbf03ebdb35e7bfc8d41268a1f50 Virginity tests for female rape survivors outlawed by Pakistani court

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    More than a dozen women’s rights groups, including the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, released a statement demanding an apology. “This is dangerously simplistic and only reinforces the common public perception that women are ‘knowing’ victims and men ‘helpless’ aggressors,” they said.


    The politician Maryam Nawaz, who is the vice-president of the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz and daughter of the former prime minister Nawaz Sharif, said Khan was a “rape apologist” and that people who validated rape had the same mindset as the perpetrators.

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    but does there need to be some education in schools to make girls aware that wearing revealing clothes when walking out alone, particularly at night, is a rather dangerous thing to do?

    I think that girls should certainly be warned about the dangers of skimpy outfits at night.

  • No woman invites rape. Rape is a horrendous crime. Anyone who rapes a woman should have his testicles removed. Not by surgery, but by two half bricks brought smartly together with testicles between. No more rape possible for the offender. A good result all round.

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    No woman invites rape. Rape is a horrendous crime. Anyone who rapes a woman should have his testicles removed. Not by surgery, but by two half bricks brought smartly together with testicles between. No more rape possible for the offender. A good result all round.

    And that seems to be the general common sense opinion.


    So why do these woke types keep avoiding this obvious truth and thereby put women's safety at risk?


    Nobody in their right mind would accuse any woman of inviting rape. After all, rape by its very definition is forced sex (ie without the person's consent). But taking sensible decisions can avoid such a fate from the small number of predatory men that every town has within its population. That's what young people need to understand, and the wokes really are not helping.

  • Answering the thread title I believe it does but people need to learn some self control and know what is right and what is wrong. Sadly these woman are all victims of the fashion industry. The bigger issue is when the fashion is used to flaunt it and where the boundaries are. It's kind of playing with fire. Eventually your going to get burned.

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    Wearing clothes that are very revealing are fine in the right environments - where a woman can feel safe. But outside in lonely places, it is nuts not to cover up.


    That doesn’t excuse the rapist in any way. It’s just sensible advice to women not to attract unwanted attention in circumstances where they cannot call for help and get it quickly.

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    I'm going to find another thread on a similar discussion we had on this a few years ago. Then, LW took the view that most are expressing here and I disagreed with her, but I think I might have been too liberal then.


    Will comeback to this later.

  • The suggestion that there is an "invitation to rape" is a part of the problem and it's notable that men are usually the ones making that suggestion. It's as if they're saying "We are pathetic and unable to contain ourselves at the sight of flesh and so it's your fault that we used our superior physical strength to force ourselves upon you. It's all your own fault."


    In other words: Male Rape Culture.


    Institutionalised self exoneration.


    Norra is right that the principle antagonist in what women wear is the fashion industry. But more of that in a minute.


    In rape trials, references to sheer and clinging fabrics, low-slung jeans and low-cut tops, bare midriffs, short skirts and liberally applied make-up are common.


    Women are often judged on the basis of the way they present themselves, as though the presence of a bra or a subtler shade of lipstick might have made all the difference between an uneventful occasion, and one on which a sexual assault took place.


    The assumption that such choices can lead to rape – that clothes can speak for women who say no – are ludicrous and extremely damaging.


    Although she is the plaintiff in the case, it is the woman, and not her alleged attacker who is held up for public examination. The woman is the one on trial.


    Scrutinising the way in which a woman was dressed at the time of an assault is one of many ways in which common myths and prejudices are exploited in order to damage her reputation and credibility in the interests of the defence.


    Although the accused’s behaviour and intentions are of far more relevance than any clothing, he rarely takes the stand or is made to account for his choices or behaviour.


    I have given evidence in rape cases and have seen the way defence counsel will focus entirely on a single item of clothing, say, a short skirt or a pair of stockings and say that this amounted to incitement. And it was a powerful factor in the resultant not guilty verdict.


    The fashion industry is powerful. The word 'fashion' itself has two definitions:


    "A popular, or the latest style of clothing, hair, decoration or behaviour"


    "The production and marketing of new styles of clothing and cosmetics."


    In other words, it's an industry. But it's more than that. It's a symbol of our western cultural freedom. Do we want to dress in some kind of uniform garb like the stereotypical Chinese or North Korean woman in a drab, grey tunic and trousers..? Of course we don't. (Oh, and by the way, Some of the clothes modern Chinese women wear are beautiful. Just so you don't veer off on that tangent.)


    It is an essential aspect of our free society that we are able to dress as we please. So why SHOULDN'T a woman dress in a short skirt if she feels that is what she wants to wear...? And should that be considered an aspect of her sexual character..? Should it be taken as an invitation to rape..?


    Even if a woman is promiscuous by nature that is still not a justification for raping her. And yet, all these things: Clothing, her perceived attitude towards sex in general and the ability to make a jury believe that she has somehow brought this upon herself are the major planks of defence counsel tactics in trials.


    Many feminists believe that those things should be made inadmissible as evidence. No item of clothing should be allowed as an exhibit in a rape trial. Of course, this denies the prosecution the opportunity to show items that were torn or damaged in removal by the rapist, but that loss is way, way, more than offset by the prevention of manipulating clothing by the defence. Counsel may refer verbally to clothing but not show it. Take away the visual impact while retaining the evidential value.


    The victim's sexual character, either her attitude towards sex or her general sexual behaviour is not on trial. This should not be allowed as evidence at all.


    The course of any rape trial should be focused entirely on the issue of consent. Defence counsel should not be able to so easily sideline that, and on some occasions, completely disregard it.


    Moving on to the education of girls and young women. I'm going to deal with that in a separate post because I'm aware of the short attention span of some people and will only be accused of "Droning on" or "ranting" if I continue this post...... I've probably already pushed the limit too far for some already.

  • The social psychology of dress: This needs to be discussed first.


    Dress as a stimulus and its influence on a) attributions by others, and b) attributions about self and on one's behaviour and relationships between dress, the body and the self. I'll be making references trawled from my personal library of studies as part of my involvement in feminist causes from some time ago so please bear with.


    We're not talking about clothing alone here. We're talking about cosmetics..... tattoos.... piercings...... accessories.... even bloody spectacles are fashion items. How are an individuals' dress-related attitudes, beliefs, perceptions, feelings and behaviours shaped by the individual or by the fashion industry..?


    There are three main streams that centre on dress as stimuli. Provocation, Colour (known to girls as "red dress" attitude) and Behaviour Of The Wearer.


    PROVOCATION


    A 1980's study*: found that "Women's sexual intent and interest is misinterpreted by men..... the two principle characteristics are clothing that is a) revealing (slit skirt, low cut blouse, high heeled shoes) and b) non-revealing (conservative skirt, blouse buttoned to the neck, wearing boots). Participants in the study rated the stimulus person on a series of adjective traits. As compared to when wearing the non revealing clothing. When wearing the revealing clothing the stimulus person was rated significantly more flirtatious, sexy , seductive, promiscuous and less sincere and considerate.


    "RED DRESS"


    Colour psychology. Like other variables that affect social perception, colour conveys meaning which varies as a function of the context in which the colour is perceived. For example, female non-human primates display red on parts of their bodies when nearing ovulation, hence, at a subliminal level, red is associated by the male with lust, fertility and sexuality. The fashion industry has spent vast amounts of money sponsoring research into the effect of colour on the human psyche and how it affects behaviour.


    Women use colour in a more personal way. "What Suits Me"...? She will often choose colours according to how she perceives her own image, not necessarily to attract a mate. For women, fashion is about her own personal "Feel Good Factor".



    EFFECT OF DRESS ON THE BEHAVIOUR OF THE WEARER


    A 1989 study** focused on the effect of dress on person perception or impression formation and an analysis on behaviours evoked by dress. Women were put in a room and given experimental tests to perform . One group were given sunglasses to wear, the other group were not. The group wearing sunglasses cheated more frequently than those without. When asked questions they were less truthful in their answers. This is known as a "Dress Cue". The wearing of sunglasses concealed their eyes and made them more confident that they could get away with behaviour that they wouldn't normally act out.



    So......... what does all this suggest....? Well, one conclusion is that dress leads some people behave in ways that they do not necessarily convey their true character. For this reason, there should be no correlation in a rape case between what a woman wore and what her true attitudes are.


    Should the fashion industry be regulated..? Wow... that'd really get them screaming about their artistic rights. And who wants to damage a multi-billion pound industry that is so valuable to the economy and provides so many jobs. (let's not go there on sweat shops right now...... save that for another day).


    Getting now to the subject of education of girls and young women in how to dress sensibly. (phew... got there in the end)


    This is primarily a parenting issue. I'm the mother of a young girl and like all girls of her age discovering fashion for the first time, she wants to try things on. Shopping trips for an outfit can take all morning if there is an event like a party coming up. This is normal, natural behaviour.


    Getting into adolescence is when the fashion industry really starts to kick in and I remember how it all exploded in my group of friends at school. My school had a strict uniform code (very strict) so there was no problem in school itself, but once we got outside the gates, the shackles were off.


    School events such as the - now popular - end of year 'Prom' are a social occasion where a school can impose a dress code. But how do they impose that code outside of school...?


    The teaching profession has a duty of care to its pupils. We are "in loco parentis" during school time and can take necessary measures to ensure uniform rules are applied. But apart from that, there is no appropriate lesson on the curriculum that deals with the issue.


    Our students are already under enormous pressure to catch up after the loss of term time due to Covid 19. Where could we fit such a lesson into the timetable..?


    I am in agreement that school is a good place for such lessons to be taught, but how..? When...? Where...? And who has the necessary qualifications to teach such a subject...? I teach biology and chemistry. I'm not a sociologist. I can talk to girls because it's what I know, but I'd be far less use in trying to help a young boy deal with his developing problems.


    There are too many simplistic "Oh, let's do this" propositions thrown out at random without taking any consideration of how such things might be implemented.


    Of course, I'd love to see these things dealt with. What mother of a growing young girl wouldn't....?


    Come back to me with what you would do to help change the world to become a better place.


    You can start with how you'd change men's attitudes and behaviours towards women.  





    References:


    *Attitudes concerning crimes related to clothing worn by female victims. Bulletin of the Psychonomic Society. 1986,


    ** Lennon SJ, Davis LL: Clothing and human behavior from a social cognitive framework Part I: theoretical perspectives. Clothing and Textiles Research Journal. 1989, 7 (4): 41-48.

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    Well, thank you for that, Jenny, but I think we are more or less in agreement with what you have said. I have only two 'niggles'. One is that the jury must have all the evidence when considering a case which could lead to the incarceration of the accused. That may include what both parties were wearing at that time if that is part of the defence. However, the defence should not be permitted to suggest that what the injured party was wearing justifies what the accused did. In fact, the judge should step in at that point if such a claim starts to be made, and the judge will also have to be very firm with the jury that such evidence is irrelevant and must not form part of the judgement on whether to convict.


    Secondly, you made the point about the victim's sexual behaviour, and this can be relevant in some cases (eg where the defendant alleges that the woman has willingly consented in similar situations before), but of course if it is clear that on the occasion that has led to the trial she did not consent and made that clear, then of course that evidence should always over-ride any previous consent.


    I am sure that it is not beyond our capability to adjust the system so that it is fair to women, although we should also recognise that some women make false claims, so there should be adequate protection for men falsely accused as well. One thing is clear to me, though - the current conviction rate is woefully low and rapists arre getting away scot free. That has to end.

  • Rape is a nasty horrendous crime which has been discussed during this thread. What I would like to see is a level playing field in law between the victim and her/his alleged rapist. (Yes there is Homosexual rape as well as Hetrosexual rape).

    Currently the identity of the victim is concealed even after the trial. BUT, the accused Identity can be plastered all over the news media before the trial meaning that if the accused was found to be innocent, his name will for ever be associated with that crime and his life ruined.

    All that is required is that neither the Identity of the alleged victim or the accused be released until after the trial has decided on the facts.

  • Rape is a nasty horrendous crime which has been discussed during this thread. What I would like to see is a level playing field in law between the victim and her/his alleged rapist. (Yes there is Homosexual rape as well as Hetrosexual rape).

    Currently the identity of the victim is concealed even after the trial. BUT, the accused Identity can be plastered all over the news media before the trial meaning that if the accused was found to be innocent, his name will for ever be associated with that crime and his life ruined.

    All that is required is that neither the Identity of the alleged victim or the accused be released until after the trial has decided on the facts.

    I fully agree that both victim and accused identities should be kept secret, also juries can be influenced if they see the accused name plastered all over the media too, its no good a judge or whoever saying to a jury that they must ignore what has been publish in the media, because no matter what once something is seen it has been seen and can influence minds.

    Young boys in the park jumpers for goalpost that's what footballs all about isn't it.

  • One of the big problems with rape cases is when a guy is falsely accused. The repercussions for the guy if found guilty can be in some circumstances worse than a woman getting raped. If they get locked up they are treated like paedos and child killers and if they don't get locked up their life is ruined especially if they are married. Rape cases need to be treated more seriously from the woman's perspective but it they are found to by lying then they should be charged with an equal charge to what the guy would have got if found guilty.

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