A step too far for road users.

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  • I've been looking to trading in my car for a new model and have been looking at EV models.. I mean pure EV's not hybrids. I've come to the conclusion that while sometime in the future EV's will be commonplace, the country is heading full tilt into disaster. The challenge is being caused by the date chosen for an end of new fossil fueled vehicles being sold. 2030..

    It is only nine years away and much too soon for a proper sensible charging infostructure to be set up..

    Will the National Grid support the extra huge demand ?--- Nobody Knows.

    How will people who do not have a drive beside their house and park in the street manage to charge their cars?. ( it's illegal to run a cable across the footpath )

    How will people who live in tower blocks and flats charge their vehicles?. Nobody Knows .

    There are and by 2030 still will be insufficient charging points at filling stations and services to cater for the demand of long distance travellers and the charging time ( IF you are lucky enough to find a free point) is unreasonably long.

    IMHO 2030 is an unreasonable date to implement the change over and the date should not be before 2050, to allow for a proper consultation and for the many challenges to be addressed.

    The Voice of Reason

  • Exactly right, Mike. That’s why I have been advocating hydrogen as the fuel to take over from petrol and diesel.

    I will certainly not be buying an electric car - ever - if I can avoid it. If you are travelling any distance, how do you know where the electricity charging points even are? And even then, who has hours to waste while it’s charging?

    I think you are absolutely right on this. I would advise anyone to steer well clear of EV cars until they’ve sorted out the technology and put in place the infrastructure.

  • Hydrogen can also be used in suitably modified IC engines avoiding the high costs involved with fuel cells and electric motors.

    I remember an Horizon documentary many years ago where they were demonstrating cars and buses that could switch between fossil fuels and hydrogen at the flick of a switch and the safe hydride storage tanks.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

  • The whole thing is a mess. What will happen is that people will be forced onto local public transport and rail for any distance. It's not worth buying any internal combustion engines now as they will be worthless in no time. No resale value. Even Harley Davidson now have an electric bike.

    Did any of you see Guy Martins programme the other week where he tried travelling from one end of the country to the other in an electric car. He also had an old VW beetle with reprogrammed Tesla engine put in it and he whipped the arse off a McLaren sports car on the drag strip. These things fly but they can't cover distance and charging is an issue. Also where is all the electric going to come from. Not exactly environmentally friendly, nit to mention the mining of exotic metals for batteries which China will get a good supply from in Afghanistan now. I hate to say but Greta was spot on the other day. It's all about the money, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Nothing to do with the environment.

  • The whole thing is a mess. What will happen is that people will be forced onto local public transport and rail for any distance. It's not worth buying any internal combustion engines now as they will be worthless in no time. No resale value. Even Harley Davidson now have an electric bike.

    Did any of you see Guy Martins programme the other week where he tried travelling from one end of the country to the other in an electric car. He also had an old VW beetle with reprogrammed Tesla engine put in it and he whipped the arse off a McLaren sports car on the drag strip. These things fly but they can't cover distance and charging is an issue. Also where is all the electric going to come from. Not exactly environmentally friendly, nit to mention the mining of exotic metals for batteries which China will get a good supply from in Afghanistan now. I hate to say but Greta was spot on the other day. It's all about the money, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Nothing to do with the environment.

    The move towards electric vehicles is a good one in principle. Electricity is a renewable energy source oil is not. There is a finite amount of oil which will eventually be completely depleted. Electricity can be generated in non-pollutant ways. The trick is to find out how to do it cleanly in the quantities that we will need in the future.

    That's a problem for technology to resolve. The fact that we haven't done it yet doesn't mean it can't be done. It simply means we haven't done it yet.

    Glad to see somebody finally admitting that Greta is right.

  • The move towards electric vehicles is a good one in principle. Electricity is a renewable energy source oil is not. There is a finite amount of oil which will eventually be completely depleted. Electricity can be generated in non-pollutant ways. The trick is to find out how to do it cleanly in the quantities that we will need in the future.

    That's a problem for technology to resolve. The fact that we haven't done it yet doesn't mean it can't be done. It simply means we haven't done it yet.

    Which brings us back to the OP. The target of 2030 is far too low to allow solving of the technology issues....... 2050 would be a more reasonable target.

    The Voice of Reason

  • I think 2030 is an appropriate date to use to prohibit the sale of new cars that are not carbon neutral. It provides manufacturers with the certainty needed to ensure that investment in clean energy cars takes place.

    Hopefully, hydrogen gas cars will be available by then.

    Don't forget, it's just new cars that it will no longer be legal to manufacture. As I understand it, there will be no ban on existing petrol and diesel cars - they will just be phased out over time.

  • Don't forget, it's just new cars that it will no longer be legal to manufacture. As I understand it, there will be no ban on existing petrol and diesel cars - they will just be phased out over time.

    These cars will also have a 15 to 20 year lifespan so they'll still be around in 2050 and I suspect that they will be kept going by those who cannot afford a new electric car.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

  • These cars will also have a 15 to 20 year lifespan so they'll still be around in 2050 and I suspect that they will be kept going by those who cannot afford a new electric car.

    By 2050, I dare say the government will have increased the price of petrol and diesel to encourage people to give up their old cars, and if that doesn’t work well enough, they could bring in a scrappage scheme for the rest.

  • Electricity can be generated in non-pollutant ways

    Oh I agree but it never will be because they are seeking a means for profit. Having a windmill or solar panel on your house is not going to bring in profits for electricity companies. We all could have had free energy many years ago when Nikola Tesla made his device but that was destroyed because it did not fit with the capitalistic ways.

    Glad to see somebody finally admitting that Greta is right.

    I actually do listen to her and agree with her sentiments. She's alright as a person, very strong willed and her heart is in the right place. OK she is being slightly derailed by bad actors (influencers and hanger on's) but she as a person has her own views and mission. Her father is a cool dude too and is just chaperoning and looking after her. I watched and listened to her for weeks away from the press on her stormy journey across the Atlantic on la vagabond from the US over to Portugal. Sailing La Vagabonde happens to be a YouTube channel I have been following for many years since before they got the Catamaran and become huge YouTube stars.

    There was a funny moment when her father was caught sunbathing out on deck stark naked in the middle of the Atlantic. Swedish sauna style LOL He's a proper cool dude, a bit hippyish. It was interesting to watch her as a person and yes she spoke about climate change but we also got to see her as a person, playing, babysitting, laughing, crying, suffering from seasickness, cooking, eating and generally coming out of her shell, speaking freely and openly and all the rest of it including some unedited clips.

    I am not a climate denier as I can see it with my own two eyes and anything that goes against the capitalistic ways and companies is a good thing in my book. It's a double edges sword though because it's those ways that is causing the problem and the reason why it will never be solved and all we will get is robbing Peter to pay Paul. We just have to accept the fact that we are going to make ourselves extinct and I'm sorry to say I believe it's going to come sooner rather than later as many are led to believe. Think about it for example a few more fires around the would and more pollutants getting into the atmosphere and we could easily land in a dark ages kind of thing moving more towards extinction, not to mention all the rest of the problems, once the ice caps melt and all the methane is released from Siberia. We will be lucky to last another couple of centuries, maybe only one, because once we reach the point of no return that knock on effect of one thing affecting another will happen fast like a runaway train. Take away the bees and you get no pollinated flowers and you get no honey and so on....FFS the climate and environmental changes and the effect we are having on the planet where being discussed back in the 80's yet nothing was done. Even earlier if you listened to the likes of Jacques Cousteau. It's only now we are starting to take it more seriously and it's to little to late. Even now there are still the deniers thinking with their pocket.

    In the grand scale of things getting electric vehicles is the least of our problems. We need to tackle the morons in power in the world first and the banking system and how we do trade. 90% of what we use we don't need to survive and it's all general shite (including the Internet) to keep capitalism alive. We need to get back to basics. In many ways places like Afghanistan, Mongolia etc are far more advanced than us. In the meantime we shall just continue to argue about it and ponder over what we can do to help and worry about how we are going to get to work when electric vehicles arrive so we can continue polluting the planet, earn more money and buy more shite.

  • One thing I do agree with in your post, Norra, is that getting electric vehicles is the least of our problems.

    We could achieve complete carbon neutrality, but it will have next to no impact unless all the countries around the world follow suit. What are the chances of that happening?

    I don’t think you will get much support for your cave man solutions! If you like the Afghan way of life, I’m sure you would have no difficulty in finding people to trade places with you!

  • Yep the other countries are a big issue as whatever we do will have no impact unless the rest of the world do something to change.

    Nothing wrong with farming by hand instead of machines or even growing your own food instead of going to a supermarket that has a huge carbon footprint. Even the act of going to work has a huge carbon footprint both in travelling and in many cases production when there are so many humans doing it.


    I would like to see the whole world live like the Amish minus all the religious stuff. A shaker lifestyle living more or less with the bare minimum and work the land as communities. Homes made of natural products, no electric and candle light for light or simply sleep when it's dark and work when light. Bio toilets, fetch water rather than have a complete plumbed in system with running taps and log burners for heating made by traditional blacksmiths. We can burn bio fuel made from Coffee waste granules or something. Instead of church we could have community centres where we all hang out for entertainment play hand made musical instruments, sing, dance, tell stories, make beer and drink ale, wine or whatever.

  • Yeah, I understand your perspective, but most people would be appalled at such a solution, including me!

    And if I’m appalled, how would the snowflakes cope? =O

  • Yeah, I understand your perspective, but most people would be appalled at such a solution, including me!

    And if I’m appalled, how would the snowflakes cope? =O

    Oh, I think we'd manage, seeing that it's us snowflakes, you know, like Greta and Greens and others of the snowflakey "Save The Planet" persuasion who are the driving force behind ecological reform.

    Without us, you'd have a completely free hand to incinerate the planet and the human race with it.

    It's Fascists who are the climate change deniers and Greta haters (you do a lot of hate, don't you..?)

  • Greetin Grumbleberg is a hopeless advocate for Global Warming. Her Credibility is shot because of her insistence of dressing up as a 9 year old child, when she is in fact an 18 year old woman.

    We in Scotland have a stupid gnome like figure called Paddy Harvie leading the tree hugging, carrot munching party known as the Celtic green party.

    Nobody can take global warming seriously when people like that are all that the Snowflakes can rely on.

    The Voice of Reason

  • Oh, I think we'd manage, seeing that it's us snowflakes, you know, like Greta and Greens and others of the snowflakey "Save The Planet" persuasion who are the driving force behind ecological reform.

    Without us, you'd have a completely free hand to incinerate the planet and the human race with it.

    It's Fascists who are the climate change deniers and Greta haters (you do a lot of hate, don't you..?)

    The reason for the worldwide concern about carbon emissions is that the scientists have drawn attention to the link between carbon emissions and temperature levels and they have explained how continued emissions at this level will create dangerously high temperatures. The clear changes we are now seeing with our climate, with fires, floods and extreme heat occurring on a much more regular basis has caused the politicians to take notice.

    It has little to do with that teenage upstart Greta, who has no manners or respect, or the Greens, who have had little actual impact on events at all.

    As for the hate - crikey, Jenny, you can talk. Look again at your posts - most are filled with hateful bile. As I said before, let's have sensible discussions on here instead of the name-calling and insults. Such behaviour is normally indicative of a person who knows they are losing the argument.

  • Hopefully, hydrogen gas cars will be available by then.

    I can live with Hydrogen gas power, it uses a conventional internal combustion engine - suitably modified of course. But we don't end up throwing away 120 years of technological development. The modern ICE is a miracle of engineering and has many many decades of useful life left in it.

    Electric cars should be considered a part of the mix in a portfolio of solutions. They are more suited to some applications than others and their use should be focussed on what they are good at such as city centre travel and local journeys. Long distance charging solutions are going to be the thing that prevents significant uptake, that and initial purchase prices for electric vehicles.

    Long distance will remain forever the weakness of EV's due to charge times and high speed charger availability. The investment required for massive uptake will never happen, charger operators will all plump for the low hanging fruit of high volume built up areas unless regulation of the charging industry forces them to spread into the rural areas.

    The classic car market (for petrol powered cars) is already booming as enthusiasts are seeing that decent drivers cars will cease to be available new from 2022 due to law changes coming in then, prices are rising as demand for good used enthusiast and classic cars rises dramatically.

    What with working from home significantly reducing running costs I will be getting that high performance gas guzzler I always promised myself when I next change my car. My last hurrah and one fingered salute to Greta and her cronies.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

    Edited once, last by Armitage Shanks (August 26, 2021 at 5:13 PM).

  • Climate Change Committee calls for road building review
    The Institution of Civil Engineers has come out in support of the Climate Change Committee's call for a road building rethink.
    www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

    The ICE is wrong to endorse the views of these climate change fanatics. They have missed two relevant points.

    The first is that people want to travel by car. It is the quickest way to get from A to B in the vast majority of cases and it is cheaper than going by public transport. Until a viable alternative is put in place, this will remain so. Building fewer roads and car parks will not change that.

    The second is that petrol and diesel cars are scheduled to be phased out, so that by 2050, practically all vehicles will be using clean energy. So pollution should not be an issue in planning roads for the future.

    Are they not joining the dots?

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