UK, US, Australia create military pact and backstab the French

Please treat other members in a constructive manner and abide by our Forum Rules at all times.
  • Aukus: UK, US and Australia launch pact to counter China
    Beijing says the deal, involving nuclear-powered submarines, undermines regional peace.
    www.bbc.co.uk


    At the rather odd time of 10 O'clock last night, Boris, Biden and the Aussie PM made a live television address to saying they are strengthening their military ties and creating a new military alliance between the three of them, this came out of the blue. As part of this pact, the UK and US will help Australia build a fleet of nuclear power submarines, although the subs will only ever carry conventional weapons.


    I watched the broadcast and although never mentioned, this is all to do with China, as Australia is feeling increasingly threatened by the Chinese. However today, this happened:


    The alliance will have to play technological catch-up with China, but must be wary of alienating friends along the way
    The deal marks a new level of cooperation, but comes at the expense of a deal between France and Australia..
    news.sky.com


    Australia has backed out of a deal with the French to build a fleet of diesel submarines and the French are furious, quite understandably considering the deal was agreed in 2017. Oh well! ;)

  • Sky News Australia has been banging on about the threat from China for ages. They have also been banging on about the French Subs they were going to purchase being a total rip off. This all makes sense.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Absolutely, it makes sense.


    New Zealand feels very threatening by China and is now very careful in what it says about the Chinese and the Chinese have been heaping on the pressure onto the Aussies for ages now, so it's win, win all around, except for the frogs. ^^

  • Absolutely, it makes sense.


    New Zealand feels very threatening by China and is now very careful in what it says about the Chinese and the Chinese have been heaping on the pressure onto the Aussies for ages now, so it's win, win all around, except for the frogs. ^^

    So WWIII will be started over the Chinese invasion of Australia and New Zealand.


    What could the Chinese possibly want down there? :/

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • China is Australia's biggest export market and increasingly that relationship has taken a turn as the Chinese "wants" get bigger and bigger and one sided in nature.


    As for what the Chinese want, what doesn't get reported is that a lot of the Chinese ambitions for the South China Seas are to do with food. They need it, lots of it, as their own immediate waters are depleted of fish and there is plenty elsewhere and increasingly as the Chinese adopt a western diet, then food imports from Australia have become important in recent decades.


    Other essentials like coal and iron are also major Chinese imports from Australia.

  • From Google...


    According to the U.S. Energy Information Agency, it is estimated that the South China Sea holds about fourteen trillion barrels of natural gas and sixteen to thirty-three billion barrels of oil in proved and probable reserves—most of which are situated along the margins of the South China Sea rather than under the long


    Maybe this has something to do with it?

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Full link here Australia and the South China Sea

    AUSTRALIA AND THE SOUTH CHINA SEA

    Australia has significant interests in the South China Sea, both economically, in terms of freedom of trade and navigation, and geopolitically, as the United States is invested in upholding the rules-based order in the region. Australia has been conducting its own airborne surveillance operations in the South China Sea and Indian Ocean, called Operation Gateway, since 1980. These patrols are conducted by P-3 Orion maritime aircraft and some of them have been verbally challenged by China. While Australia has not conducted a surface FONOP operation similar to those of the US Navy, it regularly conducts naval presence patrols, exercises and port calls throughout the region. As Washington’s closest ally in the region, Australia may come under growing pressure from the United States to make its presence felt in the South China Sea beyond statements of diplomatic support for freedom of navigation.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Macron will never forgive us for this. Mind you, there wasn’t a lot of love lost before this!


    I like the way the French are blaming us for some sort of betrayal when this was an Australian decision!

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • Looks like the French have thrown all the toys out of the pram and recalled their ambassadors for the USA and Australia.


    Oh dear, what a pity, never mind.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

    If my post is in this colour  it is moderation. Take note.

  • Here's the story on that:


    Aukus: France recalls envoys amid security pact row
    The "exceptional decision" follows a pact between Australia, the US and UK, which scuppered a French deal.
    www.bbc.co.uk


    If the Aussies did sign a contract with the French, then I don't blame them for being seriously pissed off. It was just whether the deal was formalised or not, if not, tough shit.


    What was more important was the Chinese reaction, they're furious, as summed up by this article and commentary:


    Furious China could NUKE Australia after sub pact with UK, claims state media
    CHINA has warned Australia will become a “potential target for a nuclear strike” amid fears a submarine pact with America and Britain will fuel a terrifying…
    www.thesun.co.uk


    China blasting AUKUS defence deal is proof that it was the right thing to do
    THERE were moments over the past year when this country looked in a tight spot.  We had voted to sever our alliance with the European Union. Partly because the…
    www.thesun.co.uk


    China needs to understand that there will be pushback to its actions, but I wonder whether Boris has decided how much pushback.


    At PMQs, Mrs May asked Boris this and whether this deal would lead the UK into war with China over Taiwan and she got a non-reply to that. Watch this space!

  • AUKUS is a sensible decision. If the French don't like the idea --- hard cheese. France is no friend of the UK. They are conspiring with people smugglers in flooding The UK with undesirables across the Channel.

  • China needs to understand that there will be pushback to its actions

    The West is not so big and powerful. Just look what happen in Afghan. This is a very dangerous game being played out here and could wake a sleeping giant. China are by no means a weak country and when people start messing with nukes, well....it's just asking for trouble really.


    And talking about Nukes the Aussies done the same a few years back to a US nuclear powered carrier in war games as the Swedish done in that video I posted recently. They sunk the US carrier from a conventional sub by using wit and the topology of the ocean to hide and then pop out. Yanks outsmarted once again.


    Do we really want to enter another war with those buffoons. This could be a Vietnam number three only with more dangerous weapons at play. Actually I don't think the Chinese are as dumb as the US and would more than likely step up their trade war to bring down the West. They may even cyberattack the stock exchange or something if pushed and continue with they mission in Afghan. building the road and getting more resources. They can always get a little help from their friends in Russia too. They don't need Aussie trade when there is plenty of resources in Afghan. The Taliban need to get some money from somewhere and China have it while we squander ours away on expensive war machines that nobody is going to use.


    Places like China, Taiwan, India and Malaysia are on the up while the West is on the down. It will be a complete global role reversal if the human race still exists.

  • This is well worth a watch.....


    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

  • Boris Johnson's revenge on French President Emmanuel Macron is sublime
    IT is unseemly to gloat over another person’s humiliation, but in the case of French President Emmanuel Macron, I’m prepared to make an exception. Only a few…
    www.thesun.co.uk


    Trevor's piece makes amusing reading.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

    If my post is in this colour  it is moderation. Take note.

  • Having nuclear power subs, has certainly got the Chinese attention, that's for sure.

    I can't think why. Apart from the ability to stay submerged indefinitely (notwithstanding food supplies for the ships company), diesel powered vessels are superior in terms of "silent .running".


    I learned this from service personnel I met and talked with while at uni in Portsmouth.


    The old diesel powered submarines, that are battery powered when submerged, are far more quiet than their nuclear powered equals. The RN used to call their Oberon and Porpoise class subs "sneaky boats" because they were so quiet. Contrast this with nuclear powered vessels, which by comparison are like an enormous tin can full of dried peas being shaken vigorously while the entire ships co whirl football rattles.


    I'm frankly surprised that Australia doesn't already have nuclear powered subs though. Britain has had them since the early 1970s. The advantage they have over sneaky boats is that they are larger, can stay submerged longer (can actually circumnavigate the planet without surfacing) and they can launch a greater variety of weapons. But if they go hanging around Chinese waters, they're going to be found out pretty darned quick.


    When following a surface vessel, nuclear powered submarines best method of staying undetected by their prey, is to stay in the ship's baffles.... this means following the ship from behind and therefore in the sonar blind spot created by the ships propwash. Unfortunately, even this isn't foolproof if their opponent has sonar dipping helicopters that can ping them from above. Which the Chinese have.


    Nuclear powered doesn't necessarily mean nuclear armed. Most nuclear boats are of the "Hunter / Killer" kind.... conventionally armed with torpedoes and sub-surface to air anti-aircraft missiles, or medium range sub-surface to surface cruise missiles."


    I suppose it's all a game of nuclear willy-waving, but hey, if Aussie wants these boats and some of the building contracts come Britain's way, it'll provide work for the shipbuilders of Barrow-in-Furness. They'll be grateful for that.


    As for outwitting the French...? I doubt they really give a toss. If somebody else wants to take over all the expense and take the risk of pissing the Chinese off, hey, you go for it, fellas. We'll sit back and let you. French territorial interests in the far east effectively ended at Dien Bien Phu. They still have the islands of Mayotte and La Reunion, the French Southern and Antarctic territories, and a couple of territories in New Caledonia and Wallis. Not really worth going to war for, or indeed, busting the bank to protect. France is a genuine nuclear power (300 warheads compared to UK's 225) so they have that "big stick" to wave if they need to.


    Me...? I don't like nuclear. I'd scrap the bloody lot of 'em. Escalating local tensions is never a smart thing to do, especially when the enemy you're prodding with your pointed stick could wipe you out without batting an eyelid.





    *Yeah, I know cruise missiles can be nuclear armed, but it's not a good idea to launch a nuke when you know that when it goes bang, you won't have been able to get far enough away to avoid being destroyed yourself. Not clever.

  • Allegedly the reason that Australia has cancelled the order for French submarines is that the French ones permanently fly White Flags from the conning tower and the Torpedos are not armed with explosives but when fired release hundreds of "I Surrender" banners. :D :D :D :D

  • Me...? I don't like nuclear. I'd scrap the bloody lot of 'em. Escalating local tensions is never a smart thing to do, especially when the enemy you're prodding with your pointed stick could wipe you out without batting an eyelid.

    Don’t you think that scrapping nuclear weapons will give an advantage to China and Russia over us? Believe me, they would use that deficiency in our defence against us.


    I don’t like nuclear weapons either, they are dreadful weapons. Unfortunately, however, they are a fact of life and any future government that puts the scrapping of nuclear weapons in its manifesto is being very naive indeed.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!