Does the energy market need change?

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  • With all the problems with rising global gas prices at the moment (CO2 low - Get your meat now!) there has clearly been a failure in the energy market, in my opinion. Otherwise, if things were working better, we wouldn't be experiencing such extreme rises.


    After the privatisation of the gas and electricity industries, we were ultimately left with six big companies, some of which were European state controlled enterprises like EDF. We still have EDF, but another former European state company, E-on, a few years ago bought another one of the Big Six, Npower, and we were left with the Big 5.


    A new entrant called Ovo came along and eventually bought SSE and still use their brand, so Ovo are one of the Big 5 and I would say that another new entrant to the market, Octopus, has over a million customers now, so we have the Big 5+1. But that's only six companies of decent size supplying the whole country with its energy.


    The boss of Octopus has been on the news today and he has reiterated that it's important to have many different energy companies, but how can the smaller ones survive? As far as I know, we only have one gas and electric pipe going into homes (unlike telecoms) and so can only ever be supplied one way, so all these different companies can do, is bill you. They can't send you "their" own made energy, if that makes any sense.


    Does there need to be change in the energy markets?

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  • I guess it depends on whether it works for the consumer. Without government interference, genuine competition between companies tends to keep prices low.


    Of course, prices are anything but at the moment, but that’s due to global shortages and should rectify itself by the spring.


    We all know that monopolies tend to be much worse in terms of keeping prices low.

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  • With all the problems with rising global gas prices at the moment (CO2 low - Get your meat now!) there has clearly been a failure in the energy market, in my opinion. Otherwise, if things were working better, we wouldn't be experiencing such extreme rises.

    GLOBAL changes to energy markets...?


    There doesn't seem to be a problem in the EU.


    Go-Compare.jpg


    We have lost the rules enforced by the Single Market on renewable generation and energy efficiency, both key to meeting climate change targets. Environmental standards are also impacted: EU agreements have helped drive a cleaner energy system with less pollution. If that common ambition is lost, then further improvements in the UK could slow or stall. Nor would there be anyone to follow-up on commitments as the EU commission and courts do today.


    The lights will probably stay on, but as always in Britain, it will be the consumer who pays the price.

  • It’s global shortages that are pushing up energy prices.


    The UK just needs to change its rules to achieve lower prices for the consumer.

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  • Out of curiosity I was looking at home solar panel kits on eBay last night. Prices have really dropped. Every house in the UK should have solar panels on the roof. You no longer need lots of Sun for them, though it is better, but all they need to work is UV like reactorlight glasses and some of them can store excess energy to use in the evenings or if you capture a lot you can feed some back into the national grid. I also see that Germany are selling combi boilers that run on wood and pellets. Canada has some good systems too. It seems to me that the UK is way behind other countries. World leaders my arse.


    The only problem I see with solar is the batteries. All these batteries including electric vehicles are going to pollute the planet. Self propelling magnets is what we need. One magnet can be used to propel another magnet to generate electric and another magnet could be used to repel that electric to drive it into sockets, wheels or whatever. The problem with free energy is they don't want people to have free energy and batteries can help drive capitalism along with recharging and for replacements. It's the whole Lightbulb thing all over again and they will be made to only last so long.


    We can never be truly environmentally friendly until we accept the fact that capitalism is holding us back. They don't want to put the energy companies out of business. This is why Nikola Tesla failed. The whole world could have been living off free energy a long time ago but we are intent on damaging the planet to the point of our extinction all in the name of capitalism and trade. Money does not make the world go around (unless your a flat earther LOL), the ionosphere and magnetism does. We wouldn't even need gas as we could use electric for heat and cooking. Completely natural and recycles back into the ionosphere. The only thing we need to mine for is materials to make the magnets and that only has to be done once as they last forever.


    We have one big enormous nuclear reactor called the Sun so why don't we tap into it. We don't have to be concerned about nuclear waste or accidents then either.

  • Well considering some of the suppliers are claiming they use 100% renewable energy for their electric, how can their be a shortage and shouldn't it be cheaper anyway, or are their claims false? :/

  • All of E-On's electricity comes from renewables Ron, problem is there has barely been any wind over the summer....


    We are where we are, which is why Tony Blair should've made that decision about building new nuclear plants in the 90s, so we wouldn't have this situation, but he put the decision off as did his successors and relying on purely renewable energy at the moment, (at the moment, because things will massively improve as more solar, wind, biomass etc comes on stream) is dangerous for us.

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  • If we'd got on with fracking for natural gas instead of panicking over the tiniest Earth tremors we wouldn't be struggling for supplies now.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • I'm not sure about fracking. :/


    Obviously the shale gas has been great for America as they weed themselves off Middle Eastern oil, but they have a much larger country than us and do we really want man-made earth tremors here?


    Lots there Norra. :)


    On solar panels, yes they are getting cheaper and better. Lots of homes in my area have them now and all new homes are built with them from scratch.


    You mention about pellets and what many people don't realise is we get a lot of energy now from imported American wood pellets, which while sustainable and renewable, is hardly green energy.


    Batteries are massive topic in itself, but we just don't have any decent infrastructure yet for wholesale change and the battery tech is still in its infancy.

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  • do we really want man-made earth tremors here?

    We already do as old mine workings collapse. These are considerably stronger than the standard that was set for fracking.


    Burning wood in a stove may seem a "green" option but the pollution levels, particularly particulates, are a major concern.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • The UK made a big mistake by buying power from France. ( a suppposed friendly country ) now they are allegedly using the supply to blackmail the UK into paying through the nose. The UK should build more Nuclear power stations to unsure a good supply through the next 100 years. Where should they build them ? Cornwall , Kent, and Norfolk, would be a good start. No point in building them in Scotland ( in case they split from the UK )

  • Never been happy with the competitive model used for selling energy. It doesn't matter who you buy from, the gas or the electrons all come from the same place, its all financial trickery in the background, especially paying extra for renewables.


    Why do we have tariffs? Why should there be different rates applied to the same commodity that doesn't change when you change suppliers? There should only be one tariff for everyone and that should be the cheapest price possible based on energy not being a "for profit" commodity. The problem is that it is a for profit commodity. Governments try to fudge their carbon emissions figures by purchasing energy generated elsewhere and to avoid the historic problems created by mis-management of our own generation companys from the past. Governments over regulate themselves to the point that it now takes 25 years to build a new nuclear power station when it used to take 3-5 years and the costs mean the power produced is uncompetitively priced. Governments spend too much time listening to minority vested interests and devising policies that can never deliver or offer a viable alternatives to traditional generation. Governments have used energy for political purposes in the past such as using the nuclear industry to fend off the miners strike and once that war was won then killing off the domestic civil nuclear industry in favour of overseas organisations. The ways in which incompetent government from the past have an impact on us all now is almost endless.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Never been happy with the competitive model used for selling energy. It doesn't matter who you buy from, the gas or the electrons all come from the same place, its all financial trickery in the background, especially paying extra for renewables.

    This is what I'm getting at.


    Unlike Virgin Media or other companies installing their own cables into homes, you only ever have one gas pipe and one electricity pipe.


    I'll come back to the rest later.

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  • Although it's all the same gas or electricity the price that suppliers buy it for and then supply the networks can be radically different. Most of the small players are buying on the spot market. Often that can be cheaper if supplies are abundent than long term contracts.


    At the moment gas supplies are being limited especially by Russia and that has led to the spot price going through the roof and the small players can't up the price they charge to customers on fixed price deals and they can't exceed the government energy price cap so they're between a rock and a hard place. The big boys have cash reserves that they can use to see them through but the others can't even get loans as the energy supply business is not deemed to be very credit worthy.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

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  • More companies gone bust: Avro Energy and Igloo.


    I wish I had just stayed with EDF. X(

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  • More companies gone bust: Avro Energy and Igloo.


    I wish I had just stayed with EDF. X(

    Still........... blue passports and crowns on pint glasses, eh..?


    Makes it all worthwhile.



    Out of curiosity I was looking at home solar panel kits on eBay last night. Prices have really dropped. Every house in the UK should have solar panels on the roof.

    This made me laff when I saw it.....


    proof.jpg


    Flagshaggers......... what are they like...?

  • We are very much at the energy companies mercy, they say there is a shortage or whatever so they have to increase prices, I don't expect its any coincidence that the price increases always seem to be at the time of year when we have to use more energy.

  • We are very much at the energy companies mercy, they say there is a shortage or whatever so they have to increase prices, I don't expect its any coincidence that the price increases always seem to be at the time of year when we have to use more energy.

    Quelle surpris.

  • I'm watching the select committee right now on BBC Parliament about the gas market and it's worrying, very worrying. There's a clear inference being said that the entire industry is at risk here and although there is a mandated process in place to deal with failing companies and transferring customers to other suppliers, that process is only for normal conditions.


    One of the speakers said it can cost a supplier several hundred pounds per customer to "acquire" that customer, as they have to purchase the energy and all the admin costs in getting that customer. So, if multiple companies fail at once, as appears to be happening, the existing larger companies simply will not be able to cope and there is also the matter of they themselves are struggling.


    The Ofgem spokesmen was asked how many companies are in danger of collapse and he wouldn't be drawn on it, but the Business Secretary said in the worst case scenario that the current crop of seventy companies supplying energy could go to ten. The Ofgem spokesman was asked by MPs how many of those seventy are in profit and again he wouldn't answer and emphasised that some companies spend heavily on infrastructure, but the clear inference was that the entirety industry is loss making, or that's what I read into it. 8|


    Winter of Discontent here we come. X/


    And :!: It was only touched upon about why this has all happened and although there are several reasons for the gas price rises including a worldwide increase in demand, the current massive spike in August when prices rose 70% are due to you know who.... our favourite autocratic leader who has been waging a cold war against us for years, including using a radioactive weapon on our soil. I've heard a new term used in the committee, we are in now in a Grey War with Russia. :cursing: Putin has manipulated prices via Gazprom.

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