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  • This year's cost associated with housing, feeding and keeping over 100,000 illegal immigrants has now hit £3.5 billion according to The Home Secretary:

    Cost of housing migrant hopefuls soars to £3.5billion this year
    The Home Secretary said the bill for the current financial year was expected to come in at £1.4billion higher than the £2.1billion of the previous 12 months.
    www.dailymail.co.uk

    I don't know if this covers all the cost of other services like translators and lawyers

    Imagine how that money would help the NHS!

  • This year's cost associated with housing, feeding and keeping over 100,000 illegal immigrants has now hit £3.5 billion according to The Home Secretary:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1…months-ago.html

    I don't know if this covers all the cost of other services like translators and lawyers

    Imagine how that money would help the NHS!

    What’s the profit margin for all the big government contractors involved? I bet the actual costs are about half that figure. The rest is being trousered by someone.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • This government, as well as previous ones, have utterly failed this country.

    What have we got to do? What will it take? Burning down parliament.??

    There are elderly people left to rot, literally, left to rot and yet all this money is poured down the drain.

    I feel very sorry for anyone born into a shitty, poor country. Even more sorry if they're born into a country with a hellish, autocratic leader, but we cannot take everybody. Our country is too small.

    If the politicans don't get it (I would have thought Brexit would have been a big enough warning for them) then we'll have to have someone else who will get it.

  • It just gets worse. The staff at The Whatley Hall hotel have been made redundant just before Xmas, not paid and told that the government (i.e. us) would pay them holiday pay, back pay and redundancy:

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  • What’s the profit margin for all the big government contractors involved? I bet the actual costs are about half that figure. The rest is being trousered by someone.

    you are rather cynical aren't you.

    In the spirit of the season I am self moderating. I came here from a forum which was riddled with anti government shit that none of them could justify, but here you are sprouting crap you have no evidence to back up.

    Do you by any chance think that there us some sort of compulsory purchase order going around for hotel rooms. Maybe there is some mothballed government agency dedicated to migrant shit that nobody has heard of, or maybe the bill is so high because they've asked for the Avengers and Fantastic Four to get involved, let's not forget Micheal Caines team from The Eagle has Landed, they can intercept dingies before the reach British waters.

    Get a life.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • you are rather cynical aren't you.

    In the spirit of the season I am self moderating. I came here from a forum which was riddled with anti government shit that none of them could justify, but here you are sprouting crap you have no evidence to back up.

    Do you by any chance think that there us some sort of compulsory purchase order going around for hotel rooms. Maybe there is some mothballed government agency dedicated to migrant shit that nobody has heard of, or maybe the bill is so high because they've asked for the Avengers and Fantastic Four to get involved, let's not forget Micheal Caines team from The Eagle has Landed, they can intercept dingies before the reach British waters.

    Get a life.

    No GG it’s far more simple than your X files style conspiracy theory that you are trying to lay on me. We have all heard the stories of hotels being paid £250 per person per night when under normal circumstances there would be a room rate of £60 or £70 pounds per night. So straight away you can see a lot of money is being pissed away because the usual government contractors are just middlemen who are grossly overcharging. So saying I talking shite that cannot be proven is itself shite.

    Then look at government procurement across the board. I’m not sure how much you know about public procurement policy but the government wouldn’t know value for money if it punched them in the face. The government routinely fools itself it’s got best VFM when in reality the money gets spread around a few favoured suppliers who will create merry hell if they get passed over for a contract. The enquiry process is very damaging to individuals and reputationally to the government. So much so that paying over the odds is a price worth paying to avoid trouble.

    There is no dodgy department, no conspiracy, just good old fashion laziness and incompetence and lashings of mediocrity.

    So whilst you dismiss fair comment most likely in a haze of Christmas Eve beer fumes some of us actually know what we are talking about whilst you waffle on.

    I’m not anti government GG I’m anti incompetence and mediocrity in high office. There is a lot around at the moment. I expect better but all I see is really average people doing unremarkable things. It’s like a disease.

    Have a lovely Christmas Day GG hopefully the hangover was worth it.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • It just gets worse. The staff at The Whatley Hall hotel have been made redundant just before Xmas, not paid and told that the government (i.e. us) would pay them holiday pay, back pay and redundancy:

    That is just plain cruel.

    What is with companies and making staff redundant just before Christmas?

  • We have all heard the stories of hotels being paid £250 per person per night when under normal circumstances there would be a room rate of £60 or £70 pounds per night. So straight away you can see a lot of money is being pissed away because the usual government contractors are just middlemen who are grossly overcharging.

    Hearing the stories doesn't necessarily make them true. Has anyone seen the receipts? I'd be inclined to take those "stories" with a healthy pinch of salt until I'd seen evidence to back them up.

  • Hearing the stories doesn't necessarily make them true. Has anyone seen the receipts? I'd be inclined to take those "stories" with a healthy pinch of salt until I'd seen evidence to back them up.

    There is a lot of speculation about the costs and estimates vary widely. What is clearly supportable is the per person cost exceeds the standard commercial room rate. No doubt costs per person are coming down as time passes from what was the headline figure at the beginning of the year. Using relatively current reports (see below) that it costs £7m per day and we are housing 40,000 migrants it works out at £175 per day per person which is about 2.5 times more than the standard room rate. So if you want to say yes we haven’t seen any receipts we can take verifiable news sources and do the sums ourselves.

    UK spending £7m a day on asylum hotels - BBC News
    The figure is likely to rise further, as Albanians become the largest migrant group, MPs have heard.
    www.bbc.co.uk
    EXCLUSIVE: Migrants in hotels hits 40K after processing centre emptied
    EXCLUSIVE: Sources said there were now a record number of migrants - most of whom arrived by small boat across the Channel - in hotel accommodation.
    www.dailymail.co.uk

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • It's not that Brexit failed, it's that the people who promised Brexit were remainers and had no intention of making it work. It's why the immigration hasn't been stopped and we're still obeying dictates from the ECHR on open borders.

  • AS

    We again seem at odds again and I draw your attention to our little debate around conspiracy, my background, evidence etc.

    As this thread has progressed since your last post can you not see that when I challenge you on some of your remarks it is because you hear something and then you start casting aspersions as if you've just seen evidence that irrefutabley proves your point. In the instance above you stated "we've all heard stories" then dislike it that I challenge as you as you use that as the basis for the aspersions that most monies were trousered by someone.

    It may well be that the whole system surrounding these hotel room procurements needs greater transparency. Like you I want to see those who are ripping off the tax payer held to account.

    Whatley Hall nr Malmesbury has been mentioned, its going rate for some rooms are in excess of £400 to £500 pn.

    Any minister who authorised such a procurement IMHO should be hung up by the balls or labia until dead. NO immigrant regardless of social status should ever be given such accommodation. The trousers get of money if that's the hotel referred to is by the hotel. But they may need it to refurbish after they are removed.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • It’s a bit thin isn’t it?

    To my knowledge I am allowed to express opinions on here that cannot be corroborated by evidence and having an opinion is not a conspiracy theory unless the term has a broader meaning than I think it does.

    Wherever I can, I provide a link to support my comments, that is where such remarks could be supported by published material. If you look at post #9 above (my most recent post before this one) it contains two links to support what I’m saying and, furthermore in that post I am modifying what I said previously as the evidence available suggests something different from what I originally said which (ironically) is the comment you are challenging in your post quoted above in this response.

    I too am evidence based, you don’t have an exclusive on evidence or unique access to Google or other search engines. Without doing a specific count I would suggest that I probably provide more links to my posts than you do but I am prepared to state that is my opinion so you don’t think I’m starting a conspiracy theory.

    Back to the subject, as post #9 stated the evidence available from published material suggests that approx £175 per day is currently being spent for each of the 40,000 migrants being accommodated in hotels. I said that hotel room rates were cheaper than that which is true if you are talking about Travel Lodge and Best Western and similar “travelling salesman” type hotels. So the question is why are the room rates not being applied because at £175 per person it doesn’t seem ( although the specific evidence to support that suggestion) to be used.

    My expressed opinion (not supported by evidence or a link) was to cynically assume that the government was squandering taxpayers cash by failing to secure a good deal on these hotels which would ordinarily suffer from seasonal quiet periods. The inference of this being that the deal negotiated didn’t appear to cover the true costs of rooms of multiple occupancy or get any discount for block booking 100% of a hotel’s capacity for extended periods of time. It seems from reports (not supported by a link) that some hotels have turned down approaches to become migrant hotels having refused financial offers that were greater than they would ordinarily get for being in business.

    The trousering of cash was an unsupported cynical speculation based on what has happened with other government contracts placed under emergency conditions such as the COVID PPE and Track and Trace software to name but two where gross sums of money were squandered on poor value or just disappeared.

    Other than that I think we are actually of the same opinion given your closing remarks above.

    I hope I don’t have to start running my draft posts through a legal team from now on. I use links where I can find them, I do express opinions which perhaps I should more clearly state as such and sometimes I speculate on motives which I again could make clearer.

    I accept your critique.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • AS

    You are definitely entitled to your opinions, but as am I. The tone of your post read to me more as an accusation. But if that's your way I will have to accept it, so long as you accept mine.

    The whole question of how public money is spent needs another look at. There can be no justification for paying over the odds, I know PPE procurement shoots that, but the globe was doing similar. This use of public money needs to be seen as squeaky clean, the Scottish ferry debacle is another prime example.

    I think the top and bottom of it is the whole parliamentary process including parliamentary discipline, funds and many other areas clearer scrutiny.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • AS

    You are definitely entitled to your opinions, but as am I. The tone of your post read to me more as an accusation. But if that's your way I will have to accept it, so long as you accept mine.

    The whole question of how public money is spent needs another look at. There can be no justification for paying over the odds, I know PPE procurement shoots that, but the globe was doing similar. This use of public money needs to be seen as squeaky clean, the Scottish ferry debacle is another prime example.

    I think the top and bottom of it is the whole parliamentary process including parliamentary discipline, funds and many other areas clearer scrutiny.

    It would be surprising to agree on everything and the point of places like this is to discuss things, it’s not a little bubble of affirmation, sometimes perhaps, but not always and all the better for the disagreements I think. We are different, we have clearly different styles but we share some common ground.

    I agree with you that government procurement needs a good looking at. All sorts of rumours abound regarding paying too much for common items. It may be nothing more than urban myth but I have heard that the NHS pays grossly over the top for Paracetamol, go into any supermarket and you can pick up 16 tablets for about 45p but the NHS allegedly pays around £5 for the same thing. I don’t know how true that is but if it has any vein of truth who the hell cut that deal and why are they still working? That may be totally incorrect but you get the point, it’s not the mega projects that are the problem, it’s all the small things, they add up.

    With projects there is a detailed cost breakdown and delivery program to underpin the projected costs. They may not be accurate but you can at least see where the variances occur and investigate.

    Back on topic with the migrant hotels - it seems that verifiable reports indicate that it is costing us £175 per person per day. Or in total £7m per day. Now putting aside the rights and wrongs of whether these migrants should be here at all, does that £175 per day seem like a lot? It sure does to me.

    So where is the cost breakdown £

    What makes up that cost£

    We are subcontracting the management of this to private organisations such as Serco, what is their mark up? Why does this need to be subbed out? It’s only booking hotels isn’t it? If there is other stuff in the cost what is it and why is it there?

    As a taxpayer I like to know where my money goes. I don’t think it is being managed very well or put to best use.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • glad that's cleaned us up a bit.

    That wouldn't gave occurred on my last forum, credit to us.

    Your right on that figure being way to high. But if they are approaching hotels of the class of whatley Hall it it easy to see how a mediocre figure can get to easily distort what may have been acceptable.

    It's kind of frustrating not knowing how best to challenge certain things. Last night's news night talked about the nhs, yet not one mention of nhs trusts or foundation trusts. What are their responsibilities, how much real blame is justifiably aimed at the government. But as I don't trust the media to give a balanced view, where do we get it?

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • glad that's cleaned us up a bit.

    That wouldn't gave occurred on my last forum, credit to us.

    Your right on that figure being way to high. But if they are approaching hotels of the class of whatley Hall it it easy to see how a mediocre figure can get to easily distort what may have been acceptable.

    It's kind of frustrating not knowing how best to challenge certain things. Last night's news night talked about the nhs, yet not one mention of nhs trusts or foundation trusts. What are their responsibilities, how much real blame is justifiably aimed at the government. But as I don't trust the media to give a balanced view, where do we get it?

    I found that last sentence strange grumpy granddad.

    But as I don't trust the media to give a balanced view, where do we get it?”

    You get it from alternative media which gives you a balanced view. You know, the sites you think are propaganda because they don’t reflect the views of the mass media you’re often repeating.

    Start here to begin with, read, think, follow the links and in time you’ll find others and you won't need to echo the mass media. :)

    Free West Media

    UnHerd | Ideas you won't hear elsewhere
    Challenging the herd with new and bold thinking in philosophy, politics and culture.
    unherd.com
    (no title)
    www.theblogmire.com
  • Quote

    We are subcontracting the management of this to private organisations such as Serco, what is their mark up? Why does this need to be subbed out? It’s only booking hotels isn’t it? If there is other stuff in the cost what is it and why is it there?

    I've just checked out Serco's Accounts filed at Companies House.

    Profit for the year to 31st December 2020 £51 million

    Profit for the year to 31st December 2021 £191 million

    I suspect the 2022 Accounts will show even more !

    SERCO LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

  • I am not looking necessarily for an alternative view, just a balanced view. Take the post above yours, ASb quoted a gigure on average room prices, based upon what, from where and by whom.

    That average price as I explained above will vary greatly depending upon the cost of roo s in the hotels used, areas of the country and season.

    My reference to the NHS is the same, I feel that the media is trying very hard to lay the blame for EVERYTHING at governments doorstep. Is that reasonable, is it correct, I guess the buck drops applies here, but let's ask the questions as to who else in the chain has fucked up.

    If London crime gets worse, is it the mayor, the metropolitan police or the government? Maybe all 3, but powers have been devolved the head at the top should actually IMHO be the last one to fall.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • I am not looking necessarily for an alternative view, just a balanced view. Take the post above yours, ASb quoted a gigure on average room prices, based upon what, from where and by whom.

    That average price as I explained above will vary greatly depending upon the cost of roo s in the hotels used, areas of the country and season.

    My reference to the NHS is the same, I feel that the media is trying very hard to lay the blame for EVERYTHING at governments doorstep. Is that reasonable, is it correct, I guess the buck drops applies here, but let's ask the questions as to who else in the chain has fucked up.

    If London crime gets worse, is it the mayor, the metropolitan police or the government? Maybe all 3, but powers have been devolved the head at the top should actually IMHO be the last one to fall.

    I’m not AS and so can’t speak for him. If you get an alternative view it provides a balanced view and not a one sided one. It’s right that the media should blame the situation on the government. After all, who else is it that’s in charge of the NHS? Is someone messes up, it’s up to the government to step in.

     Crime in London? Let’s drop the political correctness for a moment and what you mean is the rise of black gangs, drugs and Eastern European criminal gangs? Is that the fault of a liberalized police SERVICE, or the government? I’m as conservative as you GC, only we don’t have a conservative government, we have a collection of liberal cosmopolitan elites running the country.

    And fall they have, deservedly, one after another starting with Cameron.

  • Take the post above yours, ASb quoted a gigure on average room prices, based upon what, from where and by whom.

    Just did a quick search for Travel Lodge Manchester Central Arena for a family of 2 adults and 2 children sharing 1 room for three nights and it was £201.91 including breakfast and WiFi. So basically £67 per family of four per night. Obviously meals need to be added to this but it will come in way lower than £175 per person per night.

    As GG says if they start using better hotels like country park and spa hotels the cost will be somewhat higher but why would we do that?

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

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