An Alternative Account of the Russia Ukraine Conflict

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  • For many years I’ve tended to stay clear of political speeches and the main stream media. At best it’s often misleading and at its worst it’s indoctrination. Does anyone still believe the US was bringing democracy to Muslim countries in the Middle East instead of trying to grab the oil supply of those who abandoned the dollar? Or that replacing centuries old traditional values with diversity and multiculturalism was going to benefit Britain?

    I managed not to get caught up in the Covid hysteria, or the one promising the climate change end of the world unless we ‘do something.’ I’m also not surprised that Boris and his gig-economy has produced the economic mess we’re now in, or that after decades of EU identity politics and open borders our inner cities now look like the third world.

    Similarly, I don’t find it surprising that after years of NATO moving up to Russia’s borders and Ukrainian ethnic cleansing of its Russian population it eventually prompted a reaction. It was either going to be Russia or China, both on the US hit list, but after failing to take over the Middle East oil supply it might be more than a coincidence that Russia is also a major oil and gas producer?

    An alternative account of the Russia Ukraine Conflict

    From Saddam to Ghaddafi and onto Syria’s Assad, anyone who defies the globalists or abandons the dollar gets a visit from the NATO Mafia. What is happening now was brewing since 2014. What’s more, the politician now wringing their hands and crying crocodile tears already knew it.

    Neo-Nazi threat in new Ukraine: NEWSNIGHT
    BBC Newsnight's Gabriel Gatehouse investigates the links between the new Ukrainian government and Neo-nazis
    www.youtube.com
  • Grandpa December 25, 2022 at 9:58 AM

    Changed the title of the thread from “An Alternative Account of the Ukraine Conflict” to “An Alternative Account of the Russia Ukraine Conflict”.
  • Armitage has forwarded a similar view to you, in some regards.

    I accept that NATO expansion would eventually piss Putin off and it has. He warned about it and nobody listened. But there has been no ethnic cleansing of Russian speaking people in Ukraine, they are Ukrainians and Putin is soley responsible for the bloodbath going on, no one else.

  • Armitage has forwarded a similar view to you, in some regards.

    I accept that NATO expansion would eventually piss Putin off and it has. He warned about it and nobody listened. But there has been no ethnic cleansing of Russian speaking people in Ukraine, they are Ukrainians and Putin is soley responsible for the bloodbath going on, no one else.

    Ukrainian ethnic cleansing in the Crimea (link)

    That sort of thing going on is why Russia intervened back in 2014, except it was hushed up. After the ethnic cleansing in the Crimea, the Ukrainian Neo Nazis moved south and it's why the Russians in Donetsk started fighting back. By 2022 the Ukrainians were trying to join NATO and any further action then would have involved a direct attack on a NATO country and possible WW3. Putin was responsible, Ghadaffi was responsible, Saddam was responsible ... It follows a well worn path.

  • That link talks about one incident in Odessa. Nothing to do with either Crimea or the Donbass areas which contain the bulk of the Russian speaking people.

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of imperalist ambitions, notthing to do with protecting "his" people.

  • That link talks about one incident in Odessa. Nothing to do with either Crimea or the Donbass areas which contain the bulk of the Russian speaking people.

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of imperalist ambitions, notthing to do with protecting "his" people.

    That’s the main stream media account. You could ignore the ethnic cleansing, the video about the dangers of Nazism arising again in the Ukraine in the op, the fighting that’s been going on since 2014 and the advance of NATO to Russia’s border. How long did you think Russia was going to ignore a NATO advance up to its borders and what happened last time western armies gathered on Russia’s borders and tried to surround it? That didn’t end well and it’s still remembered.

    The eastern part of the Ukraine is only some 270 miles from Moscow. Do you really think Putin was going to let NATO build missile sites 270 miles from Russia’s capital? In the early 60’s Russia tried to put missiles targeting the US in Cuba (the Cuban crisis) and were very firmly told ‘No!’ Now it’s Russia’s turn to say, ‘No.’

    It’s not only Russia. China’s Xi has already warned the west it will fight to preserve its sovereignty. These countries are not third rate powers that NATO has been attacking for years, they’re nuclear armed countries and we’d do best to leave them alone. It’s why NATO is not getting actively involved in all this.

  • It's strange that these countries claim being the victims, while being the actual agressors.

    As for NATO being right up to Russia's border, the only one who has made that happen is Putin. Ukraine is not in NATO, but thanks to Putin's war, Sweden and Finland soon will be.

    As I said, I don't disagree with the argument that NATO expansion would piss off the Russians in the end, but we are where we are and the only way to resolve this mess is for Putin to be defeated.

  • It's strange that these countries claim being the victims, while being the actual agressors.

    As for NATO being right up to Russia's border, the only one who has made that happen is Putin. Ukraine is not in NATO, but thanks to Putin's war, Sweden and Finland soon will be.

    As I said, I don't disagree with the argument that NATO expansion would piss off the Russians in the end, but we are where we are and the only way to resolve this mess is for Putin to be defeated.

    I think if you look at the last couple of decades, the aggressors in the world have been the US and NATO. Between them, the onslaught in the Middle East has cost millions of needless lives in the Middle East.

    Putin isn’t responsible for this.

    nato10.jpg

    Or this.

    china10.jpg


     You can’t defeat a nuclear power, that’s the point of having nuclear weapons. Give Russia what it wants which is a neutral buffer zone between itself and NATO and all this will end overnight. We start trading again, get our energy supplies back and everyone’s happy. Do I think Russia will go nuclear if it’s pushed? Yes and so would we if pushed into a corner. It’s a dangerous game we’re playing.

  • But when you talk of a buffer, that includes (I assume) Ukraine. Do they get a say in this?

    What if they don't want to be a client state of Russia anymore?

    As for the MIddle East, it's hard to disagree there have been mistakes, although a world without Saddam Hussein is still better world, but of course then came ISIS...

  • But when you talk of a buffer, that includes (I assume) Ukraine. Do they get a say in this?

    What if they don't want to be a client state of Russia anymore?

    As for the MIddle East, it's hard to disagree there have been mistakes, although a world without Saddam Hussein is still better world, but of course then came ISIS...

    No, the Eastern part of the Ukraine who are mainly Russian speakers and voted to be part of Russia, which they now are. Saddam didn’t have WMD’s and Blair knew it. Getting rid of Saddam and Gaddafi and attacking Assad in Syria and I’m not saying they were likeable characters, opened up a whole Pandora’s Box of Muslim Shia and Shiite sectarian killing that they’d both held in check. We got the backlash from that as the angry displaced swarmed into Europe and Britain. No wonder we have terrorism.

  • We can get into Iraq, sure, but perhaps on another day. I'll need to recharge my batteries for that discussion. ^^

    As for Ukraine, they didn't vote for anything. It was a shame vote by Putin.

  • We can get into Iraq, sure, but perhaps on another day. I'll need to recharge my batteries for that discussion. ^^

    As for Ukraine, they didn't vote for anything. It was a shame vote by Putin.

    If you look at a map, from Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Syria … Iran and N. Korea already knew they were on a hit list and why they tried to make a nuclear weapon. Russia stopped the US in Syria, otherwise the US would now have full control of the world’s Middle East oil supply. Isn’t that what it was all about?

    I suspect the Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine did vote to be incorporated into Russia. They knew what would happen if the Ukrainian Neo Nazis got hold of them.Do you really believe the EU or NATO give a toss about Ukraine, the poorest country in Europe? It's toppling Putin and getting hold of Russia's energy supplies that they're after.

  • Oh yes, I meant to ask. Do I get one of those chocolate shield trophy thingies for posting 15 posts in one day? My laptop hasn't had so much excitement since I applied for my pension credits last year. :)

  • I did have that system Grandpa, but after a software "upgrade" it went kapput. I can turn it on again at some point, but no pension credits, I'm afraid.

  • I did have that system Grandpa, but after a software "upgrade" it went kapput. I can turn it on again at some point, but no pension credits, I'm afraid.

    Oh dear. No pension credits or pieces of chocolate? "What am I to do" he said out aloud gazing mournfully at the screen. :)

  • Horizon

    I have some bad news. I was having a chat with NATO commander General Stoltenberg and apparently someone told him you've got chocolates at your house. He told me to tell you you to hand them over or he's going to send round a NATO rapid reaction force to have a quiet word with you! :)

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