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  • Following the Gary Lineker affair regarding social media posts, there are the usual calls that the "woke police" are after him or similar such jibes. I thought a thread where we can discuss "WOKE" its meaning to us, it's use(s) and the problems associate with it may help us understand what woke is. It seems there are still alot of people out there that are unsure of its meaning or even whether that meaning has changed.

    https://www.nationalworld.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/what-does-woke-mean-definition-woke-culture-2023-3215758

    In the above link a brief history of woke describes it in terms of waking up, but in terms of inequality and social justice. I will say straight off that for me it is more derogatory in that its meaning to me is one of someone who wants a librealistic utopia where colour or perceived rights are of uppermost importance.

    Alot of us might associate Woke with BLM, to use that in terms of my description above, the black community don't want equality imo they want to be portrayed as high value victims whose worth us greater than yours. The Oscars are a prime example of this for me, it wasn't too long ago that black people complained that the Oscars were only for white actors. The awards in attempt at appeasement have gone so woke as to being actually discriminatory against white actors.

    For me negative impacts of WOKE far exceed any good that comes from it. It is my deep felt belief that discrimination breeds discrimination. When I see TV adverts, interviews with members of the public and or professionals you can be sure there is a large helping of black people. Now, that sounds racist maybe it is because what I am witnessing makes me less woke, less understanding, less sympathetic and more anti, more racist. After all blacks only make up 4.2% of the UK population.

    Needless to say this is something one can ramble on about for hours, but I would like to read your take, your opinions and your understanding of this topic.

    Middle age is when your old classmates are so grey and wrinkled and bald they don't recognise you.

  • Canny Lad March 12, 2023 at 3:42 PM

    Changed the title of the thread from “Are you WOKE a discussion of its terms, uses and problems” to “What is WOKE”.
  • Woke us a big subject. I would say it can be defined in a number of ways:

    Race

    Religion

    Ethnic Origins (not to be confused with race)

    Sexuality

    Gender

    Nationality

    Disability status

    Political leanings

    Viewpoint on climate change

    Viewpoint on Brexit

    Viewpoint on Covid

    All of the above are then placed into a hierarchy, most commonly called the Intersectional Hierarchy and depending on the number of boxes of intersectionality you tick, places you higher or lower in the intersectional hierarchy. The whole hierarchy structure is based on victimhood and grievance status.

    There are obviously groups that are excluded from the intersectional hierarchy such as straight, white, middle aged men. In accordance with the teachings of intersectionality, straight white men are the source of all victimhood and grievance.

    Woke and Critical Race Theory are very much from the same stable as they both utilise the simple argument of the oppressed and the oppressor, the “struggle” to fight the oppressors and to have your marginalised voices heard.

    It is from all this that we get BLM, Pride, Black History Month, feminism, subversion of history, the toppling of statues, taking a knee, extinction rebellion and just stop oil, diversity and inclusion in the workplace, over representation of minorities in TV and advertising and the ever changing Pride flag or racial pride flag being flown like a flag of foreign occupation over many government institutions.

    Woke is an insidious mind virus that targets the elite and ruling class. Most normal people are immune.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Woke takes legitimate concerns and diminishes them to the point where said concerns get lost in all the "wokey" BS.

    That can't be a good thing.

    don't you mean blows them up to make everything else get lost in the BS?

    Middle age is when your old classmates are so grey and wrinkled and bald they don't recognise you.

  • Woke is the new means by which the unintelligent are closing down intelligent conversations and free speech. It's the first sign that communism is trying to infect the population...

    The Voice of Reason

  • What is equality?

    Both you and OB make reasoned points, personally I don't believe that those that claim to want equality actually do want it. What they want is a period of inequality that they consider would go some way to address the grievance they believe they're entitled to.

    So many white people claim that the pendulum has swung too far, it certainly feels that way. If a white person challenges openly, they are classed as phones, racist or homophones. I saw an article where when that question was asked by some guy he got ridiculed. It was a celebrity Rylan Clark who it was that ridiculed.

    But if I am honest I never saw eurovision as lgbtq.

    Does anyone actually believe BLM want equality, everythingbabout them screams NO. Equality in the workplace, or should I say inequality still exists as its still expected that mire females, more ethnicities be forefront in employers minds.

    I could be quite happy if a black person better suited to a post gotnit ahead of me, but not because they were black. Reparations for centuries old slavery is forefront again due to the coronation, its bollocks. Have the Windies been disadvantaged today by their colonial past? I cannot answer that question, but I do know that often the enslaving was done by blacks and carried on by whites.

    A black graduate here in the UK could maybe trace their ancestry back to windiest or even Africa, but if we take that further would they have the life opportunities they now gave if their ancestors hadn't had that path. We also never hear mention of arab or black slavers of which their were many.

    But I know I've taken a racial twist, but equally and woke are two sides of the same coin imo, as I could just as easily have used examples of sexual orientation or gender.

    Middle age is when your old classmates are so grey and wrinkled and bald they don't recognise you.

  • The slavery thing is a nonsense argument. Britain was complicit up until about three centuries ago, when we were the first to outlaw the practice. No living person or their living relatives are impacted by it at all, so why are these grasping so-and-sos expecting compensation?

    We cannot be responsible for the actions of our forefathers and we have nothing to apologise for.

    As for equality, well, as I have said before, everyone should be treated fairly, whatever their ethnicity, gender, religion, etc. No group should be treated better than any other group. That principle should be the one that applies because that would be all inclusive.

    The equality laws for myriad minority groups should be scrapped in favour of a general ‘fairness’ expectation.

  • For what it’s worth, the whole identity politics movement, which includes wokeness, arose from Cultural Marxism. It’s the idea that if the workers aren’t interested in a revolution, someone else has to be found. The new revolutionaries are the minorities; the dispossessed, sexual deviants, criminals, radical feminists … Those formerly excluded from and marginalized by society. They're now becoming a 'normal' part of society.

    The idea is that they will produce so much chaos that people will start to vote in demagogues to save them from the chaos and you get a dictatorship. You can see it in the minority backlash – Muslim terrorism, the homosexual agenda, illegals, the ‘green’ fanatics, BLM … They’re all minorities, but lump them together and they’re a sizeable minority and growing.

  • It will be ordinary people who would vote to slap this lot down, so any dictatorship would be on the right of the political spectrum.

    The left would sink to minority status to join the rebels.

  • Left or right, any dictatorship isn’t acceptable.

    The idea that Britain is responsible for slavery is a historical nonsense. Slavery has been going on since the dawn of time and in fact most here will have distant ancestors that were slaves of the Romans, or the Libyan Barbary Pirates that roamed the coasts of Britain in the 17th century. If your ancestors were European, slaves of the Mongolian invasions and the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

    Everyone was involved in slavery. You can still see the consequences when you look at the eyes of some Arabs and they’re blue! That’s the left-over consequence of the DNA that’s travelled down the centuries. Britain wasn’t even the end destination for slavery, it was a mid-way stop on the way to the America’s. Very few ended up staying here in Britain. Slavery still exists today in parts of Africa and especially in the sub-Saharan region.

  • Left or right, any dictatorship isn’t acceptable.

    The idea that Britain is responsible for slavery is a historical nonsense. Slavery has been going on since the dawn of time and in fact most here will have distant ancestors that were slaves of the Romans, or the Libyan Barbary Pirates that roamed the coasts of Britain in the 17th century. If your ancestors were European, slaves of the Mongolian invasions and the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

    Everyone was involved in slavery. You can still see the consequences when you look at the eyes of some Arabs and they’re blue! That’s the left-over consequence of the DNA that’s travelled down the centuries. Britain wasn’t even the end destination for slavery, it was a mid-way stop on the way to the America’s. Very few ended up staying here in Britain. Slavery still exists today in parts of Africa and especially in the sub-Saharan region.

    I think that the real significance is that the UK was the first to abolish it. Does that count for nothing with these militants?

  • I think that the real significance is that the UK was the first to abolish it. Does that count for nothing with these militants?

    Nope, they know we have weak leadership and if they keep the pressure on they will succeed.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • I think that the real significance is that the UK was the first to abolish it. Does that count for nothing with these militants?

    Well, not really. It’s like saying you caused an accident, but helped clear up the mess. The Africans were the last in line for slavery and so got the s***ty end of the stick. They refused to accept they played a major role selling each other to the slave traders and so have an endless chip on their shoulder.

    This racism you hear about isn’t about colour, it’s about culture. Not wanting to join in with their former oppressors, the blacks developed a sub-culture to make themselves different and it’s this that is causing the problems. In any country you go to, if you don’t join in with the majority culture, try to make yourself different, have a false sense of entitlement, you’re going to have problems. Most do join in, it’s a minority that don’t.

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