Do you trust Electronic Voting?

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  • As the link below suggests, electronic voting was seen as a solution to the problem created by the multiple recounts to decide the Florida result in the 2000 US Presidential Election. It came down to a handful of votes IIRC.

    The issue is the electronic voting systems that are now in use in such places as the USA which has a large population on a huge landmass are themselves the source of grave suspicion. The integrity of the 2016 and 2020 US elections has been questioned (although it is verboten to suggest the 2020 election integrity is suspect 🤔). In both cases the electronic voting systems have been central to the allegations.

    Various experts from inside the electronic voting systems industry have claimed that manipulation is relatively easy if you know how and have the access either via hacking or corruption of code.

    However, the voting machines are here to stay and I think we will start to hear a lot more about how safe and secure they are in the media as we approach the next US elections in 2024.

    Whilst what goes on in the US is very interesting, what do you think about the possibility of electronic voting systems replacing our tried and trusted manual methods here in the UK?

    Summary of the Problem with Electronic Voting

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • If all the checks and balances are in place, yes, electronic voting is probably the way to go, but it must be verifiable.

    At least you can’t submit boxes stuffed with fraudulent ballot papers. Manual counts are not that reliable. It’s a balance, really.

  • I'm old school. More than happy to continue marking my ballot paper at the polling station, but don't have a problem with other options. Any voting system is vulnerable to an element of abuse in my opinion - especially postal voting. How do you know that the right person cast that vote?

  • I'm old school. More than happy to continue marking my ballot paper at the polling station, but don't have a problem with other options. Any voting system is vulnerable to an element of abuse in my opinion - especially postal voting. How do you know that the right person cast that vote?

    That’s why they are introducing a requirement to produce photo-ID this year.

  • If all the checks and balances are in place, yes, electronic voting is probably the way to go, but it must be verifiable.

    At least you can’t submit boxes stuffed with fraudulent ballot papers. Manual counts are not that reliable. It’s a balance, really.

    Vote rigging by the fabrication physical voting slips and then introducing them into the count without detection is a challenge. Voting slips are individually serial numbered so any out of range numbers should be spotted as should duplicate numbers. There have been a couple of cases where this has occurred; one in Tower Hamlets and the other in Birmingham.

    Vote rigging an electronic voting machine is less burdensome as no physical voting slips are required, just access to the machine either physically as a corrupt official who would not be questioned for opening up a machine or via internet hacking. In both cases the installation of corrupted code is the purpose. That code can deliberately mis-record the votes to achieve the desired outcome.

    Don’t forget that vote rigging to effect the national outcome is a conspiracy requiring a lot of resources and political cover to downplay/dismiss accusations of wrongdoing. Electronic voting machines offer the best possible chance of pulling off such a plan.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • I'm old school. More than happy to continue marking my ballot paper at the polling station, but don't have a problem with other options. Any voting system is vulnerable to an element of abuse in my opinion - especially postal voting. How do you know that the right person cast that vote?

    I’m with you on this ROG. Paper voting slips and mandatory photo ID plus in person voting only.

    Other options should be by exceptional circumstances only.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Far to much room for error with electronic voting and hacking and altering results via a third party. It's impossible to prevent this as it's the nature of the beast. The only way you can prevent it is to not use it to begin with. At least if things are kept as is the only error then can be human error from within. We are not having a third party in Russia, China...'take you pick' having a major influence on our voting 'possibly' without us or the authorities even knowing. Things can be done where there is no trace left if done properly and nobody would be any of the wiser..

    There's also the issue that we use Base 10 and computers use Base 2 (binary) when doing maths which can introduce a mathematical error when converting from binary. This could also be classed as human error through hardware and software development and how calculations are made. It all come down to the floating point.

    Mistakes can and do happen.

    Pentium FDIV bug - Wikipedia
    en.wikipedia.org

    Does it really matter though as there has never really been such a thing as a democratic vote as the voting system has always been manipulated by the media, miss-counts etc. The system is flawed and is all a ruse to make us feel like we are in control.

  • I’m with you on this ROG. Paper voting slips and mandatory photo ID plus in person voting only.

    Other options should be by exceptional circumstances only.

    I agree ID is essential IMO, however not everyone can physically get to their local Polling Station for various reasons that is why postal votes are available , people working away from home , housebound, in nursing homes , we missed voting on one occasion as we were on holiday.

    I missed voting on at least one occasion as I worked long antisocial hours, I had gone to work before the Polling Station had opened, and it was closed by the time I got home, that is why the wife vote by post, not everyone works 9 to 5 these days

  • Wife and I have used Postal Votes for a long time,

    The link below is not a pro Trump narrative (before you immediately dismiss it). It gives a good account of the timeline of events on the night of the 2020 US election and the underlying theme is the absolute chaos caused by mass mail in voting.

    I strongly oppose mail in voting. It is more vulnerable to manipulation than electronic ballots and we should be making people vote in person except in the most exceptional circumstances.

    In the US election Mail in voting slips were counted electronically in tabulating machines which have also been proven vulnerable to manipulation via direct and remote intervention.

    Whilst far from perfect in person voting and manual counting of physical voting slips does give the opportunity for audit.

    https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/us-election-what-happened-in-key-battleground-states-on-election-night/news-story/2037f4baa76cab7e378fdd468ffe22f1

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • All voting systems are open to being corrupted. But , IMHO the safest system is for voters to attend the polling stations in person and have their identity checked against their photo I.D before voting.

    The Voice of Reason

  • I don't give a fiddlers fart about Trump or America and their electoral system that goes on for ever, no system will ever be perfect and open to abuse by some.

    I am also very aware of elections held in places such as Tower Hamlets where the Imams tell their flock who to vote for, and postal votes have allegedly been collected and filled in by another person, however our system is IMO as good as it gets, it will be more secure with photo ID,

    However there are some people out there that do not have a passport or photo ID driving licences or work pass , best some of them can do is produce a utility bill.

    We will stick to our Postal Votes , they can check our signatures with the original application we made some years back if they need to verify our signatures the next time we vote.

  • We will stick to our Postal Votes , they can check our signatures with the original application we made some years back if they need to verify our signatures the next time we vote.

    Nah, We use postal voting, but it's wide open to abuse... I would however be happy to visit the polling station with photo I.D. if the rules were to be tightened.

    This of course would bring up the question of I.D cards for all citizens, great idea.............................. BUT------------------------ They are hated by Illegals and Criminals so the Labour party would oppose I.D. cards.

    The Voice of Reason

  • Nah, We use postal voting, but it's wide open to abuse... I would however be happy to visit the polling station with photo I.D. if the rules were to be tightened.

    This of course would bring up the question of I.D cards for all citizens, great idea.............................. BUT------------------------ They are hated by Illegals and Criminals so the Labour party would oppose I.D. cards.

    I agree with you on the ID at Polling Station

  • However there are some people out there that do not have a passport or photo ID driving licences or work pass , best some of them can do is produce a utility bill.

    You can apply to the local authority for an free Voter Authority Certificate if you don't have photo ID. It is not the problem that some make it out to be.

  • Fred brings up an important point about some people not being able to attend to make their vote. I'm not talking being on holiday or working as that's not a good enough excuse IMO so you simply lose your vote but there are plenty of folk with disabilities or illness. These people should be able to appoint someone to go and make the vote for them and if they don't have anyone then there should be some kind of voting official that can do it for them. I also don't believe that UK citizens living abroad should have the right to vote here anymore. They should lose that right as they are not living here.

    You start introducing digital tech into the voting system then it's asking for problems along with it being far to easy to manipulate counts. Just look how easy it was for them to fudge COVID numbers.

  • Nah, We use postal voting, but it's wide open to abuse... I would however be happy to visit the polling station with photo I.D. if the rules were to be tightened.

    This of course would bring up the question of I.D cards for all citizens, great idea.............................. BUT------------------------ They are hated by Illegals and Criminals so the Labour party would oppose I.D. cards.

    It begs the question that strict enforcement of in person voting supported by photo ID might significantly change election outcomes. Especially in large urban areas that are traditionally Labour strongholds.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Nah it's bollocks and nothing to do with labour, and criminals and illegal's don't vote anyway LOL but there are plenty of people that value their privacy and their freedom. We don't live in North Korea or China yet. Nobody should have to carry an ID. I can understand the requirement for one in the case of voting but this is just another step into normalising the idea of digital ID. It's being pushed by the back door and the numbties that don't understand the consequences and where this leads.

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