Sunak wants all students to study Maths until 18

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  • Little Rishi is going to announce new maths requirements in general education that compel maths studies to the age of 18. I assume that all students in 6th form will be required to do a maths A-Level going forward? How this impacts 16 year olds who leave school to start an apprenticeship as a plumber or mechanic or just to become a labourer on a building site I don't know.

    There is a also the fact that some people are better than others at certain things and the world of maths is not for everyone.

    I cannot help but think there is a gender bias going on here to try and attract more women into STEM. Do women really want to go into STEM in large numbers?


    I have to say once again we have politicians meddling in education when they don't have a clue what they are talking about.

    Rishi Sunak sets up review to tackle 'anti-maths mindset'
    An advisory group will consider whether a new maths qualification is needed for 16 to 18-year-olds.
    www.bbc.co.uk

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Little Rishi is going to announce new maths requirements in general education that compel maths studies to the age of 18. I assume that all students in 6th form will be required to do a maths A-Level going forward? How this impacts 16 year olds who leave school to start an apprenticeship as a plumber or mechanic or just to become a labourer on a building site I don't know.

    There is a also the fact that some people are better than others at certain things and the world of maths is not for everyone.

    I cannot help but think there is a gender bias going on here to try and attract more women into STEM. Do women really want to go into STEM in large numbers?


    I have to say once again we have politicians meddling in education when they don't have a clue what they are talking about.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65293430

    I think the ability to do basic maths is important but how far do you take it

    By basic I mean Add , Subtract, multiply , divide , % anything else essential?

  • Quote

    The UK is one of the least numerate among developed nations and eight million adults have maths skills below those expected of a nine-year-old.

    From the article in my redtop today.

    I don't think extra qualifications are needed but ensuring that students have a better grasp of basic maths like fractions and percentages is surely a good thing.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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  • I know a guy who when we were at school and that time at 14 to pick your gcse choices, his dad vetoed everything. A big family row occurred and he told his dad he fail all of them if he carried on.

    He was good to his word, dad wouldn't back down so at 16 he purposefully failed all the gcse choice subjects. His mom and dad ended up divorced, but he resat them later that year and passed. He had proved his point.

    The same guy went on to 6th form, then uni and I believe ended up an officer in the RAF.

    I agree with Heero, invaluable tools to a point, but don't interfere with people's chosen career paths.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • I think the ability to do basic maths is important but how far do you take it

    By basic I mean Add , Subtract, multiply , divide , % anything else essential?

    I think the problem Rishi is trying to solve needs to be defined.

    I take the view that everyone gets compulsory maths to the age of 16 anyway which theoretically gets everyone to GCSE standard. Therefore the next logical step is A-Level which is a big step up.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Agree with Armitage. I can't do maths to save my life. Forcing people with no aptitude for it is a waste of time that could be spent teaching them something they are good at.

  • From the article in my redtop today.

    I don't think extra qualifications are needed but ensuring that students have a better grasp of basic maths like fractions and percentages is surely a good thing.

    Fractions, Heero? Decimals, yes, but I have never used fractions in my adult life!

  • I've only ever used fractions in cooking. Half a teaspoon, quarter cup, three quarter this and one third that.

    Ah, yes, me too, but that doesn’t require much of an understanding. The basics that they teach you in primary school should be enough for most people.

    It’s a bit of a mouthful to ask for ‘nought point five of a teaspoon’. 😂

  • have you never used the phrase "glass half full" fractions, beautiful things when doing home brew.

    For me itcwas logarithms, books of thee things when I was at school, still have no idea where they're used.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • Agree with Armitage. I can't do maths to save my life.

    Same here but I suspect your like me and more creative and prefer more tangible skills / good with your hands. I can add, subtract, divide etc and even know my fractions / percentages and a few other things but I still do some counting on my fingers for most of the time or rounding off to the nearest ten in my head and then add or subtract the other numbers from that. I don't know all my times tables but I know some of them. I consider myself to have basic maths skills and it's been more than enough for me to get by in life. The thing is I am shocked by how bad some of the youngsters maths skills are today and I thought my maths was bad! Don't ask me the square root of anything or try to get me to understand Algebra though. LOL I can just about get my head around Pythagoras theory. I can take a bearing on a Ordnance survey map. ;)

  • Same here but I suspect your like me and more creative and prefer more tangible skills / good with your hands. I can add, subtract, divide etc and even know my fractions / percentages and a few other things but I still do some counting on my fingers for most of the time or rounding off to the nearest ten in my head and then add or subtract the other numbers from that. I don't know all my times tables but I know some of them. I consider myself to have basic maths skills and it's been more than enough for me to get by in life. The thing is I am shocked by how bad some of the youngsters maths skills are today and I thought my maths was bad! Don't ask me the square root of anything or try to get me to understand Algebra though. LOL I can just about get my head around Pythagoras theory. I can take a bearing on an Ordnance survey map. ;)

    Actually, I think that’s quite good compared with most ordinary people.

    I don’t think you need any algebra or geometry except where it is necessary for the particular occupation you choose. I think what the schools need to concentrate on is addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, percentages and decimals for maths and of course reading and writing skills.

    Everyone should leave school having those minimum skills.

  • I think what the schools need to concentrate on is addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, percentages and decimals for maths and of course reading and writing skills.

    One of the best forms of mental exercise is to chalk a game of darts. I have often been amazed at the mental agility of some who do this. And also surprised by some who struggle. Prowess at maths and day to day mental arithmetic are not the same thing at all.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Little Rishi is going to announce new maths requirements in general education that compel maths studies to the age of 18. I assume that all students in 6th form will be required to do a maths A-Level going forward? How this impacts 16 year olds who leave school to start an apprenticeship as a plumber or mechanic or just to become a labourer on a building site I don't know.

    I think the problem Rishi is trying to solve needs to be defined.

    I take the view that everyone gets compulsory maths to the age of 16 anyway which theoretically gets everyone to GCSE standard. Therefore the next logical step is A-Level which is a big step up.

    The article says is not A-level, but what do 16-18 year olds study? A levels of course, so it's confusing.

    What I am assuming is that Sunak is probably saying that the standard of maths learning to 16 is so poor, that it needs to be carried forward until 18, but that's seperate to forcing kids to do a-level maths, which most wouldn't be able to do.

  • I thought this bit was inteteresting from the article:

    Quote

    Experts recently told MPs that 12% of secondary school lessons in England are taught by someone who hasn't studied any higher than A-level themselves.

    And therein lies the problem.

    Most teachers are left-wing eco warriors, rather than highly trained, highly skilled professionals.

    Teaching as a professional, must be on par with doctors and engineers and should be the very top of society, as their job is so cruical.

  • I thought this bit was inteteresting from the article:

    And therein lies the problem.

    Most teachers are left-wing eco warriors, rather than highly trained, highly skilled professionals.

    Teaching as a professional, must be on par with doctors and engineers and should be the very top of society, as their job is so cruical.

    Our Education System IMHO is falling behind other countries , far too many of our youngsters are leaving school with little or no qualifications which does not help them to find well paid work, some are very inarticulate , every other word is " Like " they don't read enough English literature IMHO

  • The article says is not A-level, but what do 16-18 year olds study? A levels of course, so it's confusing.

    What I am assuming is that Sunak is probably saying that the standard of maths learning to 16 is so poor, that it needs to be carried forward until 18, but that's seperate to forcing kids to do a-level maths, which most wouldn't be able to do.

    So....if you stay on to do A-Levels at 6th form but you don't do A-Level Maths (and lets face it not many would because unless you are really talented at Maths the A-Level will beat you) you will be required to do some additional maths study alongside your three A-Level topics?

    Rishi has me confused here because if you are not doing A-Level Maths in 6th Form what else is there? Are they going to invent some new halfway house maths qualification that is more than GCSE and less than A-Level? Is this then going to lead to new career pathways and entry level requirements? I can seen this strategy being turned into another barrier to entry for those who are not great at maths as they struggle with or fail the new non-A-Level 6th form maths which many universities and employers will no doubt start to add to their ever increasing list of pre-requisites.

    I'm really not convinced this has been thought through properly.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • I think Sunak is saying that kids cannot count and before they leave full time education at what is now 18, they need to count. How they get there, is what is confusing, which is why the government is seeking advice. (clue: decent teachers might help)

    It's definitely not forcing kids to do A-level maths, but it's either going to be some form of extended GCSE maths, or some kind of top up on the GCSE.

    Oh how I loved my time learning matrices, it's been very useful in my life. :rolleyes:

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