Is our offence of murder in need of change to reflect the severity and sentencing appropriate to what was done.

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  • The data covering the details of the Police and Counter Terrorism officials are in the hands of the IRA (or whatever they are calling themselves this year) Terrorists.

    As a country we owe our public servants a duty of care, this has been breached and those people that we need to keep the public safe are now targets.

    I won't speculate how the terrorists got the information, but I do feel sorry for the police and the officials including their wives and children.

    The Voice of Reason

  • Me too. As I understand it, personal addresses have not been leaked, but names and places of work have been.

    The very least the PSNI can do now is offer to intercept all mail coming into the police stations and deal with any threatening stuff that comes in so the staff don't see it and also set up an advisory service for all their staff to use to get the help they needand peace of mind.

    The PSNI also need to step up their security and ensure that all vehicles parked at places of work are kept safe and secure at all times. Bombs and trackers under cars are now huge potential problems.

  • The Police in NI have never stopped looking under their personal cars for booby traps, they have to be very careful when at home out shopping and on duty

  • I won't speculate how the terrorists got the information, but I do feel sorry for the police and the officials including their wives and children.

    As I understand it, a Freedom of Information request was made but there was confidential information behind the spreadsheet containing the information that was being legitimately supplied.

    Obviously, either the person who was making the legitimate request was a bad actor in the first place, or copied it to a bad actor who discovered the confidential information.

  • As I understand it, a Freedom of Information request was made but there was confidential information behind the spreadsheet containing the information that was being legitimately supplied.

    Obviously, either the person who was making the legitimate request was a bad actor in the first place, or copied it to a bad actor who discovered the confidential information.

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    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • As I understand it, a Freedom of Information request was made but there was confidential information behind the spreadsheet containing the information that was being legitimately supplied.

    Obviously, either the person who was making the legitimate request was a bad actor in the first place, or copied it to a bad actor who discovered the confidential information.

    As I understand it a man has been arrested and charged for being in possession of that classified information which could be useful to terrorists

  • i started this thread following a severe miscarriage of justice, Malkinson lost his best years due to that, he is a similar age to me give or take a handful, yet his life experiences are minimal.

    Nowadays, we live in a world dominated by media, mainstream and social internet media. It is clear that in alot of cases trial by media happens when anything occurs, more so by so called celebrities.

    I am not a fan of so called celebrity status, which can cover a broad spectrum of subjects. This is clear from the same faces, the same opinions rolled out everytime something or someone hiccups.

    If we look back over the last few years we can see this, especially events where celebrities were involved, but events like the recent Lucy Letbie murder trial I include due to the extent if media coverage. We can see that trial by media, a media feeding frenzy, intrusions by links to media. By intrusions by links to media I'm not talking Newscorp and Murdock, I'm talking about the search for the woman Nicola Bulley who fell in the river, the idiots thinking they were playing cluedo trampling all over what at that time could have turned out being crime scenes.

    The Ryan Giggs affair (politician), Mason Greenwood, Philip Schofield, Huw Edwards and now Russell Brand all highlight trial by media. All but Brand have been put to bed, but as the pressure there mounts it must look increasing bleak in the Brand household.

    So to round off the background here I will raise the recent Letbie case, mentioned in other threads but I can foresee another miscarriage of justice looming large if not now at some point in the future.

    So to the crux of this post, in light of all mentioned and I appreciate that some of those celebrities weren't prosecuted in court of law but I feel that they were so tried in the court of public opinion.

    Had they all gone to court and with a out of control media how can we ensure that trial by jury is now untainted.

    Those old school advocates will always advocate that one should be entitled to be judged by 12 of your peers, but can that be trusted to deliver a fair verdict based on facts presented in court and not so called facts in the media.

    I have reached a point where imo trial by jury is unsafe, tainted and no longer fit for purpose in some cases. Maybe the bulk of jury trials are still safe, but certainly those that find prominence I find the use of jury fraught with risk of prejudice.

    The final question will ultimately be, should in certain high profile cases trial by judges supercede trial by jury.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • Ryan Giggs affair (politician), Mason Greenwood, Philip Schofield, Huw Edwards and now Russell Brand all highlight trial by media.

    And lets not forget Cliff Richard who then sued the bastards and won.

    The final question will ultimately be, should in certain high profile cases trial by judges supercede trial by jury.

    No because the same applies to judges unless they live a life of a recluse with no outside influence because they are human too. Maybe we could have AI judges. Let a computer algorithm work things out and find someone guilty or not. All you have to do is programme a software to the same standards of what a barrister / judge has to educate themselves with. Feed those legal books into a software. Actually academic stuff like this is one of the more simple things for AI to take over. Analysing data and summing things up is what computers do best. Think of all the money that could be saved and no more sexual deviant judges wearing a babies nappy and visiting a dominatrix before going home to their mistress either.

  • Rather than start a new thread I became aware of a campaign being started by the victims families of the Calocane stabbings etc in Nottingham.

    We all know that at present the two most serious offences on the statute books are Murder and Manslaughter, both involving the taking of another person's life. I have just found out that 20yrs ago it was recommended that the law being changed from what we currently have to an American style, 1st degree, 2nd degree and manslaughter.

    The families in the Calocane case believe that his sentence of indefinite hospitalisation is unjustifiably lenient and after review the Attorney General has also reached this decision and has sent the case for appeal.

    The families argue that someone like Calocane who they accept has a MH condition, in this case Schizophrenia, that his plea of manslaughter on the grounds of finished responsibility means that someone like him can NEVER be tried with murder. Iirc Calocane decided to stop taking his meds, which ultimately led to the killings on that day, killings he set out to do.

    I have changed the thread title to reflect a change of use and a copy of the news report from the dreaded BBC to help refresh those memories.

    BBC News - Nottingham attacks: Families call for law change after CPS review

    Nottingham attacks: Families call for law change after CPS review
    A review following the Nottingham attacks suggests the government should reconsider homicide laws.
    www.bbc.co.uk

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • Canny Lad March 26, 2024 at 8:49 PM

    Changed the title of the thread from “Is our criminal justice system in need of serious reform” to “Is our offence of murder in need of change to reflect the severity and sentencing appropriate to what was done.”.
  • I think this murderer should be humanely put down like a mad dog .

    There is no coming back from his crimes and he is a danger to the public .

    How did he get into this country in the first place ?

  • Yes I agree, but the sentence of indefinite hospitalisation means he could serve just 10 years or never be released.

    Did your parents have any children that lived.

  • The cost of keeping this man in a mental hospital for the rest of his life will be astronomical , money that will be paid from the tax payer including the families of the victims .

    It could be spent on much better things on people who are really innocent .

  • I don’t think that MH should be allowed as any form of defence. If a dangerous dog attacked and killed somebody and I think we can say an animal acting on instinct is the same as a human with MH compelling them to act violently, I do not think there should be any distinction.

    MH is the latest get out of jail free card….literally.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • This shows the appeal system is working and is a safety net.

    The current law is good enough. I see this as click-bait. A media story pulling at emotions.

    Murder is the only offence were Diminished Responsibility is applied. The sentence must reflect the crime and do justice to the individual. If you suffer a mental disorder how can you be convicted of murder when mens rea and Actus Reus, do not form the act.

    Once a conviction for murder has been reached the judge has no alternative - the sentence is a "Life Sentence".

    8|Do not trade me a Rabbit and hand me a Hare. (I know the strain of species in Leporidae).

    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

  • He might be deranged but he still took three lives .

    He tried to kill three other people

    Valuable lives, the life sentence is for the families .

  • He might be deranged but he still took three lives .

    He tried to kill three other people

    Valuable lives, the life sentence is for the families .

    No one is saying he should be set free. We are not North Korea. We try to be fair-minded.

    Yes, any law can be changed but we all know the politicians do not respond to the will of the people.

    They conned the sheepies on the Self Defence laws. Millions believed the politicians REALLY CARED about them defending themselves in their own home. They did nothing of the sort. It was a con.

    Barristers must present the case for DR or not DR. Juries find on guilt.

    8|Do not trade me a Rabbit and hand me a Hare. (I know the strain of species in Leporidae).

    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

  • Sometime North Korea might not be all wrong .

    Some idiot mental health ‘expert ‘ will let him out at some date and he will kill again .

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