Should the UK apply to join BRICS?

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  • https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/more-than-20-countries-have-applied-to-join-brics-south-african-president/2972344

    More than 20 countries have formally applied to join BRICS, a bloc of emerging economies that includes Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

    “An expanded BRICS will represent a diverse group of nations with different political systems that share a common desire to have a more balanced global order,” South African President Cyril Ramaphosa said Sunday night in a televised address.’

    A prime objective of the Boris Johnson government was to reap the benefits of Brexit by joining organisations such as BRICS. And yet here we are, just over a year before the next election, and we haven’t even applied yet.

    This is ridiculous. We need to move forward but it’s like the government is frozen in aspic.

    Rishi needs to get his finger out on the various initiatives we need to take to make Brexit work in practice. We can’t move forward until we implement these measures.

    Mind you, as far as BRICS is concerned, I don’t know if UK membership would be favoured by South Africa. We may need to sweat our membership of the CPTPP if we can’t join BRICS.

    But at the moment we are drifting and we need to get a grip.

  • I am not to keen on anything to do with Russia for obvious reasons, I don't trust the Chinese , and South Africa very iffy I don't think they even like each other but we have to look forward to the future

  • Too politically sensitive a topic at the moment I'd imagine.

    I can imagine the reaction from the likes of Starmer if Sunak even hinted he might be considering it.

    He'd attack the idea on multiple fronts.

  • What on earth would we gain from joining?

    Apart from a deeper reputation for cuddling up to rogue nations that is.

    BRICS isn't a trade bloc and if it was it would just be a vehicle for exporting more UK jobs to lower wage economies.

    Bring back Conversations

  • Part of the case for Brexit was that we could join other blocs to gain influence and to trade. BRICS was seen as a group of countries with incredible potential for future expansion, which is why the likes of China and Russia want to be part of it.

    Although there are political issues involved, nonetheless it could be said that as it is an important source of investment - in mining, transportation, financial services and IT, for example - the positives outweigh the negatives.

    If we don’t get involved, Russia and China will move in and exploit African countries for all they’ve got. We certainly don’t need an increased presence of these two countries on our doorstep.

  • Absolutely Not!

    We need to back off from China and untangle ourselves from them and I've said elsewhere, I have concerns about India too.

    South Africa is rapidly going in the wrong direction and will likely end up a quasi military dictatorship, or something similar and as for Russia, doesn't need to be said does it?

    Brazil is a useful and emerging economy and we should build ties with them, but we don't need BRICS for that.

    Brexit allows us to make our own decisions, rather than those decision being made for us, as long as those decisions are sensible.

    Firstly, we need to re-establish our links with our sister countries: Can, Aus and NZ. We essentially threw those relationships under the bus when we joined the EEC, which is why for decades, Australia sought out closer ties with China and others in the region.

    Then, cautiously, build more ties with the Americans. I say cautiously, because any relationship with them, will be lopsided in their favour.

    Then, we need, as I think we are doing, building closer relationships with Eastern European countries, Ukraine and the Baltics know which side the bread is buttered on.

    Then, as we are doing, is strengthen our existing relationships with other allies. The recent defence deal with the Japanese, over jet technology, is a good example.

    Then seek out new ventures like in Brazil, Chile, perhaps a few others.

    And finally, seek to maintain relationships with those in the EU who are closer to us like the Dutch and Danish, but at the same time, I think we need to keep an arm's length distance from the French and Germans, in particular.

  • Yep. China's domain now and with Wagner, Russia is still trying to influence as many countries too, especially around the current Niger coup.

  • I think we have burnt most of our bridges and we should concentrate on rebuilding manufacturing here and export rather than import. We need to learn to become more self sufficient.

    My Sonar is picking up an Echo around here

  • Part of the case for Brexit was that we could join other blocs to gain influence and to trade. . . .

    Just when did you realise that that was a false argument to con the public?

    Bring back Conversations

  • Yep. China's domain now and with Wagner, Russia is still trying to influence as many countries too, especially around the current Niger coup.

    That’s right, and who’s just popped up in Africa? This is what Russia offers them, and China’s not much better.

    Maybe sooner or later African countries will start to realise that these two countries were not the comfortable bedfellows they thought them to be.

    I think we should be there for them when they need us. A long term project, methinks.

    https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/wagner-group-russia-ukraine/2023/08/22/id/1131602/

  • Just when did you realise that that was a false argument to con the public?

    ^^ ^^

    Bit harsh, but not necessarily untrue.

    People have been falling for the land of milk and honey scam since the Old Testament and they still haven't found it. However, I'm reliably informed the SNP think they know where it is and are trying to mount the next expedition.

  • I think we have burnt most of our bridges and we should concentrate on rebuilding manufacturing here and export rather than import. We need to learn to become more self sufficient.

    A lot of manufacturing left the UK over the years , what have we got to attract it back ?

  • A lot of manufacturing left the UK over the years , what have we got to attract it back ?

    We're still very competitive in the High Mix/Low Volume category but the Low Mix/High Volume stuff is very hard to retain especially if we insist on pursuing trade deals with low wage economies. It's beyond laughable that some have used the loss of jobs to lower wage EU economies like Cadburys moving production to Poland as some argument in favour of moving jobs to even lower wage economies like India.

    Unless we could get unique deals with convergent or higher wage economies like the USA then trade was always going to be on the debit side of the arguments on Brexit (there are upsides). But the USA really doesn't do bilateral deals anymore, it's not that we weren't told.

    Bring back Conversations

  • I don't think we can ever be competitive in manufacturing in the old industries. The workers here were always more interested in striking and disruption rather than working.

  • I don't think we can ever be competitive in manufacturing in the old industries. The workers here were always more interested in striking and disruption rather than working.

    Yes it did happen far too often and whilst they were doing that , our competitors overseas were producing the same goods faster and cheaper than we did we were more often than not priced out of the market

  • I don't think we can ever be competitive in manufacturing in the old industries. The workers here were always more interested in striking and disruption rather than working.

    I'm not sure exactly what you're defining as old industries so here's a thought...

    Could the manufacturing element of any of the one's you have in mind accommodate taking out the workforce and replacing them with robots?

    Wouldn't create many jobs in that particular industry (pretty much zero at present anyway) but would in the electronic/robotic/engineering sectors supporting it.

    Would that give us a competitive edge if we treated it as a do over as opposed to looking at manufacturing in the classic sense of bums on seats or in a production line making stuff?

    if we're not currently active in those sectors it's a bit of a no brainer isn't it?

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