Facial Recognition - For or Against ... why?

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  • The problem is it's not perfect so used dumbly (which it will be) it can end up making some people's lives hell just because their features match some known criminal.

    The staff here send me bizarre messages I'm barred from replying to and now I'm blocked from starting new conversations. icon_rolleyes.gif

    This place could have been good but 'could' is so last tense. I'll be back, maybe but no one hold their breath.

  • If you are honest and decent, you have nothing to fear... Facial recognition tools can help the Criminal Justice System bring criminals to justice. ... So long as it can equally identify people of all races and skin colours....

    The Voice of Reason

  • I know from what I am told by friends in retail that most shoplifters are known to the shop workers because they return again and again. Why does that happen? Because the Police are not interested in low value petty crime.

    I am told that shoplifters are identified by shop staff as they enter and are observed as they progress through the store by shop staff who are instructed not to engage and not to physically intervene (particularly supermarkets). Managers are instructed to verbally intervene but not to block passage out of the store if they choose to leave without paying no matter what they have picked up. In my friends experience as a supermarket worker the thieves always make a beeline for the booze which is kept as far from the doors as possible. The days of trying to obscure the theft have now long past. Once upon a time the self check-out was used to purchase some items whilst shielding the high value stuff by careful packing of the trolly to cover the loot. Nowadays thieves simply walk in and then walk out, often hurling abuse as they go to anyone who dares to challenge them. They often return later for a second thieving trip or gather outside the store to intimidate any shop worker that had dared to challenge them earlier. They are that brazen and confident that they simply don't give a toss. On the rare occasions that they do get arrested they will be back the next day and up to the same tricks. It is currently unstoppable.

    Some senior store management, I'm talking board level, instruct that there should be no intervention for fear of bad publicity and litigation due to free legal services available to these criminals if they believe they have been roughed up by security staff. Corporate reputation is seen as something that needs to be protected thus bolstering the audacity of these thieving scumbags.

    I was in the supermarket just the other day and a shoplifter stole a bottle of whiskey and rather than leave the shop with it, he sat on the floor (having deftly removed the security top) and was casually drinking from the bottle. When accosted by a store manager he said he was going to pay for it but he was an alcoholic and he needed to take a drink first to calm himself down. It was revealed when he was invited to pay that he had no money on him and no means to pay so he was just stringing people along. He was sent on his way by the manager as he said there was no point in calling the police because they wouldn't come anyway unless there was a physical element to the incident and that would include a have a go customer wrestling the scumbag to the ground. The police really do not like the public having a go and they will clamp down on this much more than the thieving so don't have a go if tempted. You will get a record and the scumbag will laugh at you. That is how fucked things are at the moment.

    Maybe supermarkets need to go to the old days and have a customer counter where they take your list and collect everything for you and only release it once payment has been received. That would cut the thieving immediately - I think they call the shop model the old fashioned grocers shop. Or maybe they should go totally online to avoid the thieving but I don't think they could handle the demand with the deliveries.

    I really don't think technology is the answer to this problem though. Most shops know who the thieves are. It will take real will from the police to respond to and effectively deal with the perpetrators of shoplifting including the judiciary that keep letting them go.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • I strongly oppose it. The Police are becoming some sort of Stazi force.

    Does this mean Muslim women are exempt? There is no law to say we can not wear a face covering.

    8| All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered: the point is to discover them. (Galileo)

    IF YOU STAND FOR NOTHING - YOU FALL FOR EVERYTHING.

  • I strongly oppose it. The Police are becoming some sort of Stazi force.

    Does this mean Muslim women are exempt? There is no law to say we can not wear a face covering.

    Since they are not actively attempting to apprehend or seek the prosecution of shoplifters I cannot see the point.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • The Police are in a shit state. They are anti THE PEOPLE, with many thousands of stupid, corrupt cops incapable of doing the job in accordance with their oath to serve.

    8| All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered: the point is to discover them. (Galileo)

    IF YOU STAND FOR NOTHING - YOU FALL FOR EVERYTHING.

  • If you are honest and decent, you have nothing to fear... Facial recognition tools can help the Criminal Justice System bring criminals to justice. ... So long as it can equally identify people of all races and skin colours....

    So how many times would you have to be arrested, detained, searched and held overnight because your face was said by some AI system to match a known criminal before you'd change your mind? Once would be too many for most people.

    The industry itself says it gets it wrong once every ~200 times but the problem with that is it means 1 in 200 people will get wrongly identified nigh on every time.

    The staff here send me bizarre messages I'm barred from replying to and now I'm blocked from starting new conversations. icon_rolleyes.gif

    This place could have been good but 'could' is so last tense. I'll be back, maybe but no one hold their breath.

  • I know from what I am told by friends in retail that most shoplifters are known to the shop workers because they return again and again. Why does that happen? Because the Police are not interested in low value petty crime. . .

    And that's the issue. The Sentencing Council does not support the courts and so the courts don't support the police who then do not support the shops and as a result the shops have to put up with appalling crime levels.

    We need more zero tolerance policing and more doubled sentence for each subsequent conviction sentencing. But that will cost money in the short term and too few politicians care about anything much longer then the next 5 years.

    The staff here send me bizarre messages I'm barred from replying to and now I'm blocked from starting new conversations. icon_rolleyes.gif

    This place could have been good but 'could' is so last tense. I'll be back, maybe but no one hold their breath.

  • And that's the issue. The Sentencing Council does not support the courts and so the courts don't support the police who then do not support the shops and as a result the shops have to put up with appalling crime levels.

    We need more zero tolerance policing and more doubled sentence for each subsequent conviction sentencing. But that will cost money in the short term and too few politicians care about anything much longer then the next 5 years.

    Interesting, maybe.

    8| All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered: the point is to discover them. (Galileo)

    IF YOU STAND FOR NOTHING - YOU FALL FOR EVERYTHING.

  • I strongly oppose it. The Police are becoming some sort of Stazi force.

    Does this mean Muslim women are exempt? There is no law to say we can not wear a face covering.

    I'm not enthused by the police either, but it's a question of trust.

    If the tech is used properly and responsibly, I've no issue with it. It's the "user" of the tech, that may be the issue.

  • I don't need you to answer for me especially when you make false claims about what I'd say.

    The problem with crime is as a society we have prioritised not spending money on either the problem or the underlying causes and it all went past a tipping point.

    When a potential criminal knows that committing a crime means they will probably lose their liberty and find it difficult to ever have a standard of living that matches their peers then you have an effective deterrent. But that needs more prisons, more judges and more police to drive it back past that same tipping point.

    The staff here send me bizarre messages I'm barred from replying to and now I'm blocked from starting new conversations. icon_rolleyes.gif

    This place could have been good but 'could' is so last tense. I'll be back, maybe but no one hold their breath.

  • Of course - unless you are a female Muslim - face covered. Win, win.

    8| All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered: the point is to discover them. (Galileo)

    IF YOU STAND FOR NOTHING - YOU FALL FOR EVERYTHING.

  • I am strongly against it ... lots of places have CCTV which has been very succesful in proving crime and identifying criminals.

    Facial recognition sounds to me like just another stealth way of 'legally' gathering information by promoting it as a way of helping society.

    I think it opposes Civil Liberties rights.


    Just yesterday I had a text message invite to set up an account so that I could easily check my NHS appointments and records ... on further exploration I was asked to provide a photograph of myself and a photograph of a suitable piece of ID.


    We are becoming more and more Big Brotherish!

    There's a crack, a crack in everything

    That's how the light gets in.

    Leonard Cohen.

  • Most people have a mobile phone which tracks your location and nowadays contains your facial recognition details which could be extracted surreptitiously for the authorities.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Presumably if you hadn't agreed to that or had knowledge of them doing that you could take legal action against that especially the facial recognition?


    The location tracking I'm not so bothered about especially as in some circumstances it could be helpful biut the facial recognition is another matter.

    There's a crack, a crack in everything

    That's how the light gets in.

    Leonard Cohen.

  • How secure do you think your mobile phone actually is these days. You can be sent to prison for not giving the police your PIN number so nothing is sacred. I don't agree that my privacy should be violated but it has already gone in most regards. We have not yet reached the point of government installed CCTV and microphones inside our homes but many devices listen to us anyway.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Tesco shop won’t let you in until you’ve been checked on CCTV in UK first
    A TESCO store has taken the extreme measure of checking people on camera before they are allowed in because of the shoplifting epidemic. The branch in Bristol…
    www.thesun.co.uk

    I think this will become commonplace as the epidemic of shoplifting continues unabated.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

    4312-gwban-gif

  • We have always had shoplifting - we just do not have police doing their job properly.

    8| All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered: the point is to discover them. (Galileo)

    IF YOU STAND FOR NOTHING - YOU FALL FOR EVERYTHING.

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