The Great Debate on Immigration

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  • I have held back on this long enough. The people who died, died attempting to commit an illegal act, and that is to say they were attempting to enter a country illegally. I am not in favour of allowing any asylum seekers in, but these people are arguably worse. They obviously had the money to pay people traffickers, but instead of investing it into their country's economy they decided to come and live in the land of milk and honey. I do not wish any harm on anyone, but if any person decides to commit a crime and suffers as a result, then perhaps a lesson has been learned.

    At long last, the dumping of crocodile tears. I doubt it will stop them coming. They'll just need to check the lorry before they get in and make sure it can be opened from the inside and that they have the tools to break out.

    We laugh at Trump wanting to build a wall. Are we still laughing? Will we still be laughing if the illegal immigrants into Essex had got out of the lorry and dispersed, never to be found again? Remember, we don't know what is the percentage detection rate. If there are 10,000 lorries coming into Britain per day and 2% of those lorries contain illegal immigrants (say an average of 30 such immigrants) , and the detection rate is only 2% of all immigrant-containing lorries, that's practically near enough 2 lorry-loads of immigrants getting through undetected - that's 60 immigrants - per day - that's about 20,000 pr annum - to add to the ever-growing number washing dishes, opening a takeaway in a hole in the wall or driving us to some place in their Uber?

    You may well ask how an earth can a lorry with 30 immigrants hiding inside get past customs? Is it such high technology to use some scanning device to check for life inside the lorry and, if so, open the door to see whether it's animals or immigrants or the last few stragglers returning from their Thomas Cook holiday?

  • 2 I fear you're romanticizing Iran's Persian past. I'm not sure how we in the West can "work on the young". If Darioush is an example of the Iranian young you have in mind to work on, it will need to be the development of total head transplants. Remember Hitler youth in the thirties singing "tomorrow belongs to me"? You think Europe or the US could have worked on them?

    Compared to the Iranian youth in the 70s at the time of the Islamic revolution, yes, possibly.

  • We laugh at Trump wanting to build a wall. Are we still laughing? Will we still be laughing if the illegal immigrants into Essex had got out of the lorry and dispersed, never to be found again?

    Happens every day.

    I live not too far from that location and you always see various people wandering around completely lost.

    Remember, we don't know what is the percentage detection rate. If there are 10,000 lorries coming into Britain per day and 2% of those lorries contain illegal immigrants (say an average of 30 such immigrants) , and the detection rate is only 2% of all immigrant-containing lorries, that's practically near enough 2 lorry-loads of immigrants getting through undetected - that's 60 immigrants - per day - that's about 20,000 pr annum - to add to the ever-growing number washing dishes, opening a takeaway in a hole in the wall or driving us to some place in their Uber?

    The last time I used a Uber, the driver had just got back from Islamabad. I'm pretty sure we kind find drivers from this country.

    As for your 20k per annum, I'd say more like six months and per port. I believe there are millions of illegals in London alone. Everything, all services, is just collapsing under the weight of numbers.

    You may well ask how an earth can a lorry with 30 immigrants hiding inside get past customs? Is it such high technology to use some scanning device to check for life inside the lorry and, if so, open the door to see whether it's animals or immigrants or the last few stragglers returning from their Thomas Cook holiday?

    Don't know for sure, but the problem is quantity of lorries. There needs to be some kind of shed that I mentioned earlier with built in scanning equipment that the lorries drive through without stopping and they get scanned.

  • Haven't been through Calais for a few years, the jungle camp was still there then, when the place was awash with young men desperate to get to the UK

    We always made sure that the car doors were locked as we approached the port

  • "DIANE Abbott said the Government needs to make it easier for migrants to come to the UK and to stop seeing them as a problem.

    The Shadow Home Secretary told the BBC's Andrew Marr this morning that people with "legal" claim to live here should be helped to come after this week's tragic discovery in Essex."

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10223653/…igrant-britain/

    And the wonder why Labour's support is fading

  • "DIANE Abbott said the Government needs to make it easier for migrants to come to the UK and to stop seeing them as a problem.

    The Shadow Home Secretary told the BBC's Andrew Marr this morning that people with "legal" claim to live here should be helped to come after this week's tragic discovery in Essex."

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10223653/…igrant-britain/

    And the wonder why Labour's support is fading

    The Green's and the Lib Dems are just as bad, if not worse.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • The Green's and the Lib Dems are just as bad, if not worse.

    I don't know about the Greens but this is the LibDems policy

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/ten-lib-dem-de…mmigration-bill

    There is sense in this, without immigration the NHS will collapse as there are not enough doctors and dentists. No mater how many we train, as fast as they qualify they move on - USA particularly. Then there are agricultural workers, already growers are reporting about crops rotting because there is nobody to pick the stuff

  • There is sense in this, without immigration the NHS will collapse as there are not enough doctors and dentists.

    Is that a joke? The reason we need so many doctors and dentists is because of the high level of immigration (and health tourism) ... and not enough home grown being trained. What % of immigrants are doctors and dentists?

    Personally, I think it wrong to poach health professionals from other countries, and too many have poor English language skills, which can lead to difficulties and potential mistakes. Better all round if we were to train our own, and more opportunity for Brits to gain valuable training.

    Mark Twain — 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'

  • If you have visited any hospital or even you local surgery you would see exactly how many immigrant doctors are working here. Then there are the Polish dentists

    I have had major surgery over the past few years and all the consultants/surgeons were from S Asia, and they were brilliant. Without them I would be dead

  • I am ambivalent about immigration

    On the one hand we are overfull for our essential services, nut this could but be solved by increasing funding on those services

    On the other hand we need basic labour to work in health care and agricultural fields, the jobs that British workers will not do

  • That's fair enough bryan.

    I can't speak much on the subject now as the issue is ongoing and immediate for me, but I do have a problem with foreign workers in jobs that our own people should be doing, especially healthcare. Let me just say this, if you have experience of a hospital nurse, hospital doctor, GP or district nurse who is not British, cannot speak the language, well, it causes all "sorts" of issues. If they then have different priorities to what you expect, that then magnifies everything even more.

    Being ill is no fun and doesn't require any extra things to make the situation worse.

  • That's fair enough bryan.

    I can't speak much on the subject now as the issue is ongoing and immediate for me, but I do have a problem with foreign workers in jobs that our own people should be doing, especially healthcare. Let me just say this, if you have experience of a hospital nurse, hospital doctor, GP or district nurse who is not British, cannot speak the language, well, it causes all "sorts" of issues. If they then have different priorities to what you expect, that then magnifies everything even more.

    Being ill is no fun and doesn't require any extra things to make the situation worse.

    I had such an experience last year, (half a lung removed) the ward I went to had only one English speaking nurse. I did complain, risking charges of racism, and was told that they just could not get local workers

    I then finished up in my local hospital where nearly all the staff were newly qualified British nurses which was much better. So it can be done

  • How are you feeling now? That sounded like a major operation.

    By the way, I'm not saying that a British person would always be better, I've had plenty of experience of bad ones, but at least they speak the same language and don't prioritise other groups.

    It was major, a diagnosis of a tiny nodule, confirmed as cancer, led to half the lung being removed. The surgeon said I was so lucky for such a very early diagnosis, he got it all and recommended no further treatment necessary

    The problem started when they sent me home with an infection that then turned into pneumonia, very dangerous at my age which required a three month stay in my local hospital which they eventually cleared. It knocked me for six and I am now slowly getting back on my feet, knocked back a bit by the bloody flu jab:thumbdown:

  • Hope so

    I should have added that I have two consultants at present, both from the Indian sub continent

    Without them I would probably be on my death bed now

  • I tend to be focused upon those people who vehemently support total free movement but never put their home or a room up for low rental, inviting as many immigrants as manageable to stay at their home. They are happy for particular towns to be "overly populated" with demands upon resources - schools - Doctors - housing et al.

  • I am ambivalent about immigration

    On the one hand we are overfull for our essential services, nut this could but be solved by increasing funding on those services

    On the other hand we need basic labour to work in health care and agricultural fields, the jobs that British workers will not do

    Come on make up your mind - there's no room for ambivalence for something as important as immigration and the lives of those immigrants. Should there be quotas, where prospective immigrants have to prove their qualifications prior to being given permission to enter the UK for example?

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