The Great Debate on Immigration

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  • The answer to your question is because it’s cheaper to be an associate member than being in the EU and the outcome is the same.

    This takes the biscuit!

    We don't want to be in your rotten club because we don't like furriners but we'll have associate membership because we like the advantages without paying for them :rolleyes:

  • This takes the biscuit!

    We don't want to be in your rotten club because we don't like furriners but we'll have associate membership because we like the advantages without paying for them :rolleyes:

    It’s about scientific collaboration not membership of a political club

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Like call me far right....:/

    I'm sorry, but you are far right! Why take offence? All your posts on immigration, Brexit, or politics smack of far right wing conviction. If you're denying you're far right; then you have a really sucky way of showing your centrist credentials.

  • I'm sorry, but you are far right! Why take offence? All your posts on immigration, Brexit, or politics smack of far right wing conviction. If you're denying you're far right; then you have a really sucky way of showing your centrist credentials.

    Your need to badge people sets you clearly as a Marxist, as this is a common trait used for social shaming people that do not think like them, you are therefore through your regular habits radical far left. I only labelled you because you called me something that is fundamentally untrue. If you really think I'm far right you need to recalibrate yourself.

    Or maybe stop the naming calling when you are backed into a corner. Debate instead of childish name calling, can you manage that?

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

    Edited once, last by Armitage Shanks (May 22, 2020 at 11:31 AM).

  • Do you collaborate with your former partner after a nasty divorce? I don't think so

    That has nothing to do with science. The scientists remain friends and colleagues and often they work across different programmes together. You continue to conflate Brexit and politics with scientific collaboration. Governments listen to their chief scientists because politicians generally don't know much about science (there are exceptions Merkle, Thatcher etc). The scientists just want to do their stuff and they will not let politics disrupt that.

    Scientists are not at war with each other and Brexit is not a declaration of war. You are being over sensitive.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • You are out of context again. So, yes, associate memberships are possible. But is membership to Horizon Europe our prerogative as a non-EU member? Do we get first refusal on membership? Is the EU offering membership or is the UK applying for it? Issues relevant to the argument which you have, once again, failed to grasp.

    And just to be clearer. What does this tell you in terms of Britain calling the shots: “In what possible sense is it in [Europe’s] interest to stitch up a neat package on science and put a bow on it for London?”

    With FoM, we were bound to allow entry; but we had full control on deportation. That's where the controls lie. But you're not interested in such kinds of immigration controls, are you? Because, as you have effectively said; to you and like-minded people, it's not at all about FoM controls or the ill-perceived lack of them. It's all about stopping foreigners from coming in.

    Picking up where we left off...

    When we are a third country, as we will become as of 01/01/21 we can apply for associate memberships to EU funded science programmes and pay the required fee. What is your problem with this? Do you think they will refuse us? Why would they do that? It’s your turn to answer why associate memberships would be a problem. I don’t think they will so I cannot answer whatever issue you have inside your head. Detail the reasons why you think this will be a problem and we can discuss. Which science areas will be problematic do you think industrial, medical, automotive, artificial intelligence, biosciences, agricultural etc which will be a problem and why? The burden is on you to make a case not for me to go around chasing your straw man. Make your case or give it up.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Picking up where we left off...

    When we are a third country, as we will become as of 01/01/21 we can apply for associate memberships to EU funded science programmes and pay the required fee. What is your problem with this? Do you think they will refuse us? Why would they do that? It’s your turn to answer why associate memberships would be a problem. I don’t think they will so I cannot answer whatever issue you have inside your head. Detail the reasons why you think this will be a problem and we can discuss. Which science areas will be problematic do you think industrial, medical, automotive, artificial intelligence, biosciences, agricultural etc which will be a problem and why? The burden is on you to make a case not for me to go around chasing your straw man. Make your case or give it up.

    What great scientific break through was mad whilst we were in the EU and what reason do you think there will be for any now?

    We were offered participation in the EU's ordering of PPE but we so hate having anything to do with the EU that we refused

  • What great scientific break through was mad whilst we were in the EU and what reason do you think there will be for any now?

    We were offered participation in the EU's ordering of PPE but we so hate having anything to do with the EU that we refused

    The PPE issue was a cock up and nothing to do with your manufactured hatred theory. Got any evidence of EU hatred you can share?

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • Just look at the whole Brexit saga :)

    You seem happy that it is a shit show Bryan. Strange state of mind if you don't mind me saying. I think the Tories were badly advised in a fast moving emergency and made some bad calls, but that is just my opinion. You might argue it was part of a grand master plan to cull a few BAME but that would be a bit difficult to prove.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

  • You seem happy that it is a shit show Bryan. Strange state of mind if you don't mind me saying. I think the Tories were badly advised in a fast moving emergency and made some bad calls, but that is just my opinion. You might argue it was part of a grand master plan to cull a few BAME but that would be a bit difficult to prove.

    I am not at all happy, I could cry for all those who have died especially those working for the NHS who are there to save lives

    The blame lies fair and square with the government, there were plenty of evidences worldwide of action that other countries to follow, some of which by tough lockdowns were very susccessful

    We took action too little too late

    Remember Mrs T's comment " Scientists advise, governments decide"

  • I am not at all happy, I could cry for all those who have died especially those working for the NHS who are there to save lives

    The blame lies fair and square with the government, there were plenty of evidences worldwide of action that other countries to follow, some of which by tough lockdowns were very susccessful

    We took action too little too late

    Remember Mrs T's comment " Scientists advise, governments decide"

    I'll say it again Bryan, your memory is very short. Not only were people NOT asking for a lock down, we were all shocked when it actually happened. That said, I still believe we shouldn't have had one at all.

    The intelligent are being oppressed so the stupid don't get offended

  • You seem happy that it is a shit show Bryan. Strange state of mind if you don't mind me saying. I think the Tories were badly advised in a fast moving emergency and made some bad calls, but that is just my opinion. You might argue it was part of a grand master plan to cull a few BAME but that would be a bit difficult to prove.

    Here you are

    "Lockdown one week earlier ‘could have stopped 30,000 deaths in UK’"

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/22/loc…hs-uk-12743426/

  • That happened to be down to opposing parties who just wouldn't accept defeat.

    Democracy relies upon losers consent. Once that has gone you are left with anarchy. Look at the Remainers and the way they behaved, it was disgusting and disgraceful. They were and still are national traitors, it is their good fortune that we live in a tolerant society and not a tin pot dictatorship.

    Celebrate it, Anticipate it, Yesterday's faded, Nothing can change it, Life's what you make it

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