The Great Debate on Immigration in the UK

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  • What a rude individual you are. With your faux moral superiority.


    The answer to your question is because it’s cheaper to be an associate member than being in the EU and the outcome is the same. As the major research locations for a lot of Horizon 2020 is UK based anyway with EU and other nations playing subsidiary roles it is not a big deal. Science and politics are like oil and water they don’t mix. The scientists want to continue to play together but governments fund the programme. UK science funding is very high at the moment as a key part of Brexit. Associate memberships are possible because, would you believe, the EU recognise that they need to collaborate with others from outside the EU.


    We did not have control in the first place that is a lie and well you know. FoM is one of the indivisible four freedoms. We could not stop it except under emergency conditions with EU agreement. That is not control, not when you have to get someone else to agree.

    You are out of context again. So, yes, associate memberships are possible. But is membership to Horizon Europe our prerogative as a non-EU member? Do we get first refusal on membership? Is the EU offering membership or is the UK applying for it? Issues relevant to the argument which you have, once again, failed to grasp.


    And just to be clearer. What does this tell you in terms of Britain calling the shots: “In what possible sense is it in [Europe’s] interest to stitch up a neat package on science and put a bow on it for London?”


    With FoM, we were bound to allow entry; but we had full control on deportation. That's where the controls lie. But you're not interested in such kinds of immigration controls, are you? Because, as you have effectively said; to you and like-minded people, it's not at all about FoM controls or the ill-perceived lack of them. It's all about stopping foreigners from coming in.

  • The answer to your question is because it’s cheaper to be an associate member than being in the EU and the outcome is the same.

    This takes the biscuit!

    We don't want to be in your rotten club because we don't like furriners but we'll have associate membership because we like the advantages without paying for them :rolleyes:

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • This takes the biscuit!

    We don't want to be in your rotten club because we don't like furriners but we'll have associate membership because we like the advantages without paying for them :rolleyes:

    It’s about scientific collaboration not membership of a political club

  • Like call me far right....:/

    I'm sorry, but you are far right! Why take offence? All your posts on immigration, Brexit, or politics smack of far right wing conviction. If you're denying you're far right; then you have a really sucky way of showing your centrist credentials.

  • I'm sorry, but you are far right! Why take offence? All your posts on immigration, Brexit, or politics smack of far right wing conviction. If you're denying you're far right; then you have a really sucky way of showing your centrist credentials.

    Your need to badge people sets you clearly as a Marxist, as this is a common trait used for social shaming people that do not think like them, you are therefore through your regular habits radical far left. I only labelled you because you called me something that is fundamentally untrue. If you really think I'm far right you need to recalibrate yourself.


    Or maybe stop the naming calling when you are backed into a corner. Debate instead of childish name calling, can you manage that?

  • Do you collaborate with your former partner after a nasty divorce? I don't think so

    That has nothing to do with science. The scientists remain friends and colleagues and often they work across different programmes together. You continue to conflate Brexit and politics with scientific collaboration. Governments listen to their chief scientists because politicians generally don't know much about science (there are exceptions Merkle, Thatcher etc). The scientists just want to do their stuff and they will not let politics disrupt that.


    Scientists are not at war with each other and Brexit is not a declaration of war. You are being over sensitive.

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  • Off topic posts removed. Thread tidied. Any more off topic posts and I'll be handing out infractions.

    History is much like an Endless Waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.

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    If my post is in this colour  it is moderation. Take note.

  • You are out of context again. So, yes, associate memberships are possible. But is membership to Horizon Europe our prerogative as a non-EU member? Do we get first refusal on membership? Is the EU offering membership or is the UK applying for it? Issues relevant to the argument which you have, once again, failed to grasp.


    And just to be clearer. What does this tell you in terms of Britain calling the shots: “In what possible sense is it in [Europe’s] interest to stitch up a neat package on science and put a bow on it for London?”


    With FoM, we were bound to allow entry; but we had full control on deportation. That's where the controls lie. But you're not interested in such kinds of immigration controls, are you? Because, as you have effectively said; to you and like-minded people, it's not at all about FoM controls or the ill-perceived lack of them. It's all about stopping foreigners from coming in.

    Picking up where we left off...


    When we are a third country, as we will become as of 01/01/21 we can apply for associate memberships to EU funded science programmes and pay the required fee. What is your problem with this? Do you think they will refuse us? Why would they do that? It’s your turn to answer why associate memberships would be a problem. I don’t think they will so I cannot answer whatever issue you have inside your head. Detail the reasons why you think this will be a problem and we can discuss. Which science areas will be problematic do you think industrial, medical, automotive, artificial intelligence, biosciences, agricultural etc which will be a problem and why? The burden is on you to make a case not for me to go around chasing your straw man. Make your case or give it up.

  • Picking up where we left off...


    When we are a third country, as we will become as of 01/01/21 we can apply for associate memberships to EU funded science programmes and pay the required fee. What is your problem with this? Do you think they will refuse us? Why would they do that? It’s your turn to answer why associate memberships would be a problem. I don’t think they will so I cannot answer whatever issue you have inside your head. Detail the reasons why you think this will be a problem and we can discuss. Which science areas will be problematic do you think industrial, medical, automotive, artificial intelligence, biosciences, agricultural etc which will be a problem and why? The burden is on you to make a case not for me to go around chasing your straw man. Make your case or give it up.

    What great scientific break through was mad whilst we were in the EU and what reason do you think there will be for any now?

    We were offered participation in the EU's ordering of PPE but we so hate having anything to do with the EU that we refused

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • What great scientific break through was mad whilst we were in the EU and what reason do you think there will be for any now?

    We were offered participation in the EU's ordering of PPE but we so hate having anything to do with the EU that we refused

    The PPE issue was a cock up and nothing to do with your manufactured hatred theory. Got any evidence of EU hatred you can share?

  • Just look at the whole Brexit saga :)

    You seem happy that it is a shit show Bryan. Strange state of mind if you don't mind me saying. I think the Tories were badly advised in a fast moving emergency and made some bad calls, but that is just my opinion. You might argue it was part of a grand master plan to cull a few BAME but that would be a bit difficult to prove.

  • You seem happy that it is a shit show Bryan. Strange state of mind if you don't mind me saying. I think the Tories were badly advised in a fast moving emergency and made some bad calls, but that is just my opinion. You might argue it was part of a grand master plan to cull a few BAME but that would be a bit difficult to prove.

    I am not at all happy, I could cry for all those who have died especially those working for the NHS who are there to save lives

    The blame lies fair and square with the government, there were plenty of evidences worldwide of action that other countries to follow, some of which by tough lockdowns were very susccessful

    We took action too little too late

    Remember Mrs T's comment " Scientists advise, governments decide"

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out