The Great Debate on Immigration, Race and Religion in the UK

  • I had such an experience last year, (half a lung removed) the ward I went to had only one English speaking nurse. I did complain, risking charges of racism, and was told that they just could not get local workers

    I then finished up in my local hospital where nearly all the staff were newly qualified British nurses which was much better. So it can be done


    The UK doesn't need foreign immigration. It needs reform from within.


    The UK doesn't need foreign immigration. It needs reform from within.


    I had such an experience last year, (half a lung removed) the ward I went to had only one English speaking nurse. I did complain, risking charges of racism, and was told that they just could not get local workers

    I then finished up in my local hospital where nearly all the staff were newly qualified British nurses which was much better. So it can be done

    Replying to Little Wing. You're absolutely spot-on there, LW, and although liberals are obviously unable to grasp it (they'd go ballistic on behalf of the migrants if they did), this is the cynical 'slave wages' exploitation of immigrants: if employers paid indigenous workers higher pay, those indigenous workers would be only too happy to fill the vacancies which are instead taken by immigrants. So it's win-win for unscrupulous employers. That's the problem with liberals - they can't rationalise nor analyse plain and simple facts: if only they could, they'd realise that they're advocating the exploitation of the migrants, the very things they say they defending. :rolleyes: Ironically enough, those liberals exemplify my signature 'There are none who do so much harm as those obsessed with doing good.'

    There are none who do so much harm as those obsessed with doing good.


    People are far more more likely to believe a lie if they want it to be the truth.

  • Come on make up your mind - there's no room for ambivalence for something as important as immigration and the lives of those immigrants. Should there be quotas, where prospective immigrants have to prove their qualifications prior to being given permission to enter the UK for example?

    No, we need them

    Quotas result in discrimination and silly bureacracy

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Lots of points to answer here, so I'll come back to this topic when I can, but I'm in favour of very tight controls on immigration.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • No, we need them

    Quotas result in discrimination and silly bureacracy

    We might need useful ones - although I could argue with you the morality of bribing medical professionals away from their own countries who can ill-afford to lose them, and paid for their training, but you obviously haven't thought of that? :rolleyes: - but we don't need 'useless eaters' - we have enough of them of our own.

    There are none who do so much harm as those obsessed with doing good.


    People are far more more likely to believe a lie if they want it to be the truth.

    Edited once, last by Horizon: deleted one of the duplicate quotes ().

  • We might need useful ones - although I could argue with you the morality of bribing medical professionals away from their own countries who can ill-afford to lose them, and paid for their training, but you obviously haven't thought of that? :rolleyes: - but we don't need 'useless eaters' - we have enough of them of our own.

    It'd a free world, people are free to work wherever they want (except under Brexit quota system). If their home country wants to keep them they should pay the going rate

    But if they did that our NHS would collapse

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • It'd a free world, people are free to work wherever they want (except under Brexit quota system). If their home country wants to keep them they should pay the going rate

    But if they did that our NHS would collapse

    What about if the home country can't afford to pay them more, 'going rate' or otherwise? We aren't talking about a few individuals because any salary increase who need to be an overall one for the entire health service workforce - looks like you haven't thought of that?? If our politicians have failed to recruit from the indigenous population, it's grossly immoral to poach them from other countries, end of!

    There are none who do so much harm as those obsessed with doing good.


    People are far more more likely to believe a lie if they want it to be the truth.

  • What about if the home country can't afford to pay them more, 'going rate' or otherwise? We aren't talking about a few individuals because any salary increase who need to be an overall one for the entire health service workforce - looks like you haven't thought of that?? If our politicians have failed to recruit from the indigenous population, it's grossly immoral to poach them from other countries, end of!

    Of course the home country can't afford to pay them the going rate whilst the president, prime minister, or general in charge is shovelling money into his/her personal bank account

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Of course the home country can't afford to pay them the going rate whilst the president, prime minister, or general in charge is shovelling money into his/her personal bank account

    Non sequitur!

    There are none who do so much harm as those obsessed with doing good.


    People are far more more likely to believe a lie if they want it to be the truth.

  • My consultant and my surgeon are both Indian as are lots of other doctors here

    India of course is a thriving booming economy (they have even entered the space race) and are well able to afford to pay their medics the going rate

    They just prefer to come here, and it's a good job they do

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Indian doctors get paid far more than what they would get in their home countries, I haven't googled it recently, but it's something like ten times more. Whether they have a space programme or not, is not relevant to the wages they pay in their public services.

    It'd a free world, people are free to work wherever they want (except under Brexit quota system). If their home country wants to keep them they should pay the going rate

    But if they did that our NHS would collapse

    We need to train our own people and stop relying on foreign workers, but I agree that the NHS is heavily reliant on foreigners, but around my parts now, foreigners are also heavy users of the NHS by a ratio of 3/1. (the 3 being the foreigners and the 1 being English users)


    No, we need them

    Quotas result in discrimination and silly bureacracy

    Just on immigration in general, rather than specifically NHS workers, but I'm very hardline on this issue. I say we need discrimination and some of that silly bureaucracy, as you call it.

    If my post is in this colour, it is a moderator decision. Please abide by it.

  • No, we need them

    Quotas result in discrimination and silly bureacracy

    Whats wrong with discrimination? This is simply a matter of selection which happens all the time in the real world. TRip Advisor is literally discrimination based in the literal sense. I will not book a hotel with 60% of the reviews on TA saying it is a shithole!! I am discriminating but there is rationale behind this. Just as the rationale behind what is best for our country.

    The problem is the leftie liberals who want ALL people for ALL things based on nothing else except their ideological mindset. BUT ...BUT .... you ask them how many immigrants they want in their home or nice village school?? they get angry. They suddenly lose the capacity to hear you.

    I live in a nice village with a nice school. Do I want the same as a school in say, Bradford? with non English speaking children of a totally different culture invading my village school?? I am NOT racist at all. This is simply a matter of living in an English Juneau Christian country and if you want to come from abroad you assimilate fully you do not convert the English system to an Islamic or other cultural way.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • "I am NOT racist at all"

    OK... lets accept you sarcastically imply I AM a racist? So please feel free to show anything substantive that I AM a racist? I am happy for proper debate and I never get offended.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • OK... lets accept you sarcastically imply I AM a racist? So please feel free to show anything substantive that I AM a racist? I am happy for proper debate and I never get offended.

    I think your post says it all

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • I think your post says it all

    I got the reply I predicted. I am happy you [rove my point. It is very, very common ... almost 100%.... for people who replied like you to NOT produce one tad bit of logical inference and to partake in proper debate. Its good that so many will see your response for what it is.

    PS: I am an immigrant to the UK. But hey... no way will this comprehend in your mindset.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • I got the reply I predicted. I am happy you [rove my point. It is very, very common ... almost 100%.... for people who replied like you to NOT produce one tad bit of logical inference and to partake in proper debate. Its good that so many will see your response for what it is.

    PS: I am an immigrant to the UK. But hey... no way will this comprehend in your mindset.

    There are plenty of immigrants who are racist

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • There are plenty of immigrants who are racist

    I am knew to this forum I appreciate your showing your hand so soon. I can now happily ignore you.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • I am knew to this forum I appreciate your showing your hand so soon. I can now happily ignore you.

    I do too. I've discovered that there's no way anyone can rationalise with the liberal mindset.

    There are none who do so much harm as those obsessed with doing good.


    People are far more more likely to believe a lie if they want it to be the truth.

  • I do too. I've discovered that there's no way anyone can rationalise with the liberal mindset.

    The problem is BRYANLUC has cut himself out of the debate by resorting to non effective personal comment aimed at being rude. I am not a petal I am quite tough and I am also a free speech absolutist but I keep away from negative input when that is its main aim.

    I would like to debate all and anything with BRYANLUC but whats the point?

    Lets suppose I post a thread.... "Why are police so political"? ... I know BRYANLUC will reply... "why dont you move to Korea"??? He will assume I know nothing and proceed to educate me in this way. My tread is aimed at gaining more information as well as trying to debate with lefties and get my point of view on the internet.

    I will say this in all truth.... I have never, ever seen a leftie progressive - post modernist - directly answer a question via proper debate. I have never, ever seen a LP -PM evidence anything from truth.

    Example; they presume to think that being on the political right - we/you must advocate police violence because you want a black man, kicking a police officer, to be handcuffed and dragged away. NO!!! I want black - white - yellow - red - brown - mixed et al. handcuffed and dragged away - for kicking a police officer. The LP - PMs see no further than their ideological stance. They will not see beyond the guy being BLACK and therefore he MUST be a victim of police brutality... when you say "OK show evidence"? they will not show evidence. You are NOT saying they are wrong, you are saying SHOW EVIDENCE then we can have a discussion.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Welcome to the circus of our sadly crazy world. I am not a petal either and get along famously with people from all over the world and any kind of orientation. However, if they get full of shit and start attacking me, lying about me or bullying me, I will throw bricks. Or leave. It depends.8)

    You only live twice, or so it seems

    One life for yourself, and one for your dreams


  • The problem is BRYANLUC has cut himself out of the debate by resorting to non effective personal comment aimed at being rude. I am not a petal I am quite tough and I am also a free speech absolutist but I keep away from negative input when that is its main aim.

    I would like to debate all and anything with BRYANLUC but whats the point?

    Lets suppose I post a thread.... "Why are police so political"? ... I know BRYANLUC will reply... "why dont you move to Korea"??? He will assume I know nothing and proceed to educate me in this way. My tread is aimed at gaining more information as well as trying to debate with lefties and get my point of view on the internet.

    I will say this in all truth.... I have never, ever seen a leftie progressive - post modernist - directly answer a question via proper debate. I have never, ever seen a LP -PM evidence anything from truth.

    Example; they presume to think that being on the political right - we/you must advocate police violence because you want a black man, kicking a police officer, to be handcuffed and dragged away. NO!!! I want black - white - yellow - red - brown - mixed et al. handcuffed and dragged away - for kicking a police officer. The LP - PMs see no further than their ideological stance. They will not see beyond the guy being BLACK and therefore he MUST be a victim of police brutality... when you say "OK show evidence"? they will not show evidence. You are NOT saying they are wrong, you are saying SHOW EVIDENCE then we can have a discussion.

    I often put it like this - liberals, with their superficial rationales and bizarre perspectives - are the unwitting 'enemy inside'. Or they're adults with the mentality of children.

    There are none who do so much harm as those obsessed with doing good.


    People are far more more likely to believe a lie if they want it to be the truth.

  • Of course I may be totally wrong by assuming BRYANLUC is a leftist progressive. I have judged him from the one dimensional aspect in his replies to my threads. He can not know me at all because I am knew to this site.

    I hope we can have some proper debates. I dont care what or how another person chooses to align with as long as they are truthful.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

  • Of course I may be totally wrong by assuming BRYANLUC is a leftist progressive. I have judged him from the one dimensional aspect in his replies to my threads. He can not know me at all because I am knew to this site.

    I hope we can have some proper debates. I dont care what or how another person chooses to align with as long as they are truthful.

    Thought you were going to ignore me, that didn't last long

    A Hand Up Not A Hand Out

  • Thought you were going to ignore me, that didn't last long

    There is nothing wrong with humility - it is a strength. But thats fine with me. I tried.

    when you see an Apple Tree why be surprised it grows Apples.

    People don't believe lies because they have to - they believe lies because they want to.

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